Disciplining two VERY spirited 2 and 3 year olds, help please!!

[moonshyne]

Delete. Nobody bothered to reply anyways.

Edited by moonshyne - 4/28/11 at 8:02am

[canadiangranola]

you didn't really give anyone much time to reply....

just sayin.

[ssh]

I remember your post. I hadn't had time to reply, too busy with my 5 year old and getting ready to go on vacation.  I think you have unrealistic expectations. 2 and some 3 year olds still have no impulse control. A good book on development is The Science of Parenting by Margot Sunderland. A good book on temperament and dealing with misbehavior is Kids Parents and Power Struggles by Mary Kurcinka. Your time outs aren't working because time outs don't usually work for toddlers and preschoolers who don't have impulse control yet. It does work better to tell your little ones what you want them to do instead of of what not to do. When you say "Don't jump on the couch!" young children hear the 'jump on the couch' part and think it sounds fun and do it. Saying "sit please, so you don't fall" or "walking feet" instead of "don't run" works much better. My DD's are 20 years apart in age, so I don't have any sibling fighting advice. Many people here have more than one little one at home. I have watched my 4 year old grand daughter and when she and my DD can't get along I take the child who's pushing hitting etc. for a time in. I say you have to come with me until you can play nice and then the child has to sit or stand by me while I continue whatever I was doing. I keep her there until she asks to go back to play and convinces me she can play nice. My grand daughter doesn't seem to mind, she's usually the one pushing or yelling or something, but it does stop the behavior and the break from play and extra attention improves their attitudes.  Punishment in general sets up an adversarial tone in the parent child relationship and can cause more misbehavior. Using non punitive methods lead to a more co-operative relationship and once impulse control starts kicking in can lead to much less misbehavior. With any small child you're  going to have some annoying behavior just because they are so different from adults. My 5 year old, for example, talks or sings incessantly and she makes big chaotic messes sometimes when she plays.  

[moonshyne]

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I liked a few of your ideas and think I'll try it out. At this point I'm desperate. I always wake up thinking "Today will be different" and sometimes it goes well for awhile and sometimes within 5 minutes I'm ready to pop my lid. They are very intelligent and they know exactly how to push my buttons. And they do..constantly it seems.

It's just really hard sometimes. Overwhelming and I try my best to keep a level head but after asking someone to do something 50 times and be flat out ignored, or watch my daughter fire a cup at my sons head completely unprovoked--thats when I lose my temper and end up screaming at them. I hate it and this is not the way I intended on living. I love my kids more then anything in the world and we have a lot of good times, don't get me wrong. But some days I'm beside myself. The two of them fighting non-stop. my daughter intentionally destroying the house, trying to keep up with the housework - which is a joke - as fast as i clean it they demolish it, laundry, cooking, cleaning..it's really too much sometimes. Then I end up feeling like a failure because I can't keep up. I can't get my kids to get along, I can't keep my house clean or anywhere near it for longer then 24 hours, I can't seem to keep my promises to myself of not losing my temper. I dunno, I honestly never pictured it being like this. I always said I'd never hit my kids and with the exception of a few times when they got a smack on the butt for something really bad, I've kept it. But there's times I do feel like spanking them. But I don't want to do that. I was raised in a house where screaming, threats and beatings were common and I never ever want that to be me. So thats why I'm trying desperately to find other things that I can do to help the situation. I feel guilty for all the yelling I've done lately and I feel so miserable because I see "FAILURE" written across my forehead when I look in the mirror. Other moms make it look so damn easy, yet I give my ALL just to maintain some semblance of normalcy in this house.

Right now my kids are sleeping, my house is all but destoyed, wall to wall of toys and crap that I asked them very nicely to help me put away..nope didn't happen. Piles of dishes and laundry that I attempted to get to 5 times today but anytime I try to do anything they start fighting so I can never get much done during the day. So I'll stay up half the night cleaning this frickin disaster area and get maybe 4 hours if I'm lucky and get up tommorow and do it again, Except I'll be smart tommorow and take them to the play area (rain all weekend here, uggh no going outside which sucks) and pray that tommorow will be a good day. Sorry this was so long, just needed to vent. And again, thanks for your reply. I was pretty disheartened after 2 days to not see one single reply..I thought what does everyone else here have perfect kids or something? lol. Anyways thank you.

[Yuba_River]

I'm sorry it's so hard right now, Mama! It's sounds like you need some help and a break. For myself, I have much more patience and the kids are easier when I have been able to take care of myself--had a nap, walked with a friend, gardened, etc. Is there any way you could get a break somehow and get a little recharged?


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[dovey]

That sounds really hard.  I have a few ideas that have helped me.

1.  Declutter.  It sounds like the mess is really getting to you.  Get rid of the toys and other stuff that makes a mess.  Just take some boxes and pick up everything on the floor and load it up until there are just a few things to play with.  If you want to keep the toys, store them and rotate them. 

2.  Plan projects and outings with your kids.  Rather than leaving them to play for the morning, take out clay and make little animals with them to tell a story with.  Take them to a stream and play with them there.  Take them swimming or to a park.  Try and get out every morning.

3.  Have a mandatory rest time after lunch during which you read to them.

4.  Take a simple chore in the afternoon like laundry folding or bathroom and do it together.  Keep the atmosphere light and give them EASY jobs to do, like spraying the mirror or wiping the floor with a rag.

I've found that if we keep a rhythm to our days and if I plan ahead the basic framework of we are going to do, everyone seems to get along better.  Hope that helps!

[insidevoice]

Mine are nearing 2 and 3.  I can relate, however, I've done a lot to minimize the insanity (most of the time.)  I have baby/toddlerproofed Up The Wazoo. I only put a few toys out at a time- the rest are locked away and we rotate about once a week.  Impulse control is non-existent for them, and I don't really expect it for another couple years. 

I shamelessly admit to zoning my house- meaning that there are a couple rooms that they are not allowed in.  If it was only one of them at a time- fine, but with both of them- the kitchen is off limits.  They can play in the next room while I cook and supervise from 10 feet away.  We have a rhythm- they know what to expect next, and I try to make sure things like meals and treats are served simultaneously so there is no reason to squabble.  

Naps- my kids still often have two naps a day, sometimes the older one will skip the morning one, but not usually.  They are both up with the sun, and right now that's before 5am, so they need a short snooze, and I make sure it is at the same time so I can create some order and have an hour to play catchup.  really though, I can clean the house in half an hour and take a nap myself for the other half hour.  The afternoon nap is longer, about 1 1/2 to 2 hours, again, they nap at the same time. I make sure to clean then as well and when have all the meal prep done during naps as well.  We aim to get outside as much as possible when the weather is nice, and if it isn't nice, we make time for some pretty rambunctious play inside.  

If all else fails, a bath and a ton of fun waterplay stuff distracts them from being really crabby. 

I try to remember that usually, when I am feeling overwhelmed, they are probably feeling MORE overwhelmed, and they need me to help shape their play and activity more.  They tend to run off the rails more when I am not as present with them as I really should be.  That was hard for me to learn.  I wanted to be able to do laundry or sit down for a few minutes, but if they are around, I rally need to be engaged with them completely.  When they sleep I can have that time to myself, and sometimes now that they are a little older they will engage in a game that will occupy them for a bit longer on their own- like 5 minutes. 

We do have pretty strict rules about hitting and throwing things, and when those are broken the offender is not allowed to be part of play for a minute- usually it is the older one and he's acting out because he is overwhelmed.   I do use quasi timeouts at those times because for that kid, it works.  I ask him to sit down where he is and  breathe for a minute, and once I see him calming down I will give him a hug and talk to him about not hurting people.  I don't know that everyone here would think of that as gentle, but it works for him, and nothing else I have tried has.  He simply needs that instant response followed by a moment to collect himself before I talk to him.  Usually it's 30 seconds or less.  

Another key for me has been to use music to shape moods.  When they are really irritable, something silly to get them marching around followed by a segue to something more calming can work wonders.  Also, the louder they get, the quieter I get. I sometimes sit down with one of their favorite books and start whispering the story until they settle down and come sit to hear it.  Sometimes that is instantly, other times it takes a couple minutes- the key is for me to not try to engage them, but to quietly read so they come close and quiet down to listen.

[Minalas]

Hey, don't feel bad - come visit my house and you'll feel good how nice yours looks. I am a SAHM, but don't get all the cleaning done, unless I have a volunteer to watch the children, 3 and 1. What I do, is to remind myself that I am a stay at home mom and not a live in cleaning woman. I really rather play with the children and let the dishes sit for another day - on the long run that strategy pays off, I think. A happy childhood is worth to grow up with a bit of gunk on the floor.

So here my little bit of advice: If the state of your household overwhelms you, take the kids and leave. Go to the playground, a playgroup, out on a walk, whatever works for you. For me, these outings help tremendously to recharge and get my focus back to what really matters - dust bunnies definitively don't. Plus, once the children had a bit of that intense parenting time, they are often much mellower and let me get something done.

Involve the children. My rule with DD, 3 years, is that if she deliberately creates a mess, she comes to clean it up. Meaning, she knocks over her glass by accident, I help; she turns the glass upside down and pours it out, I don't give her a break until it is cleaned. I also let her 'help' me doing dishes or mopping the floor. Usually, her help isn't particularly useful, but it keeps her busy and stops her from creating trouble elsewhere.

If you are tired, sleep first, clean later. Don't fall for the idea that regular nighttime cleaning will put you ahead of things. It just will make you crabby the next day and unable to deal with the challenges ahead.

Finally, I think we can't be expected to be perfect mothers after growing up in a non-perfect home. As long you manage to scream etc. less than your parents did, you are already making a difference. Your children will improve on your parenting, when it is their turn.