Leaving a child home alone for a (short) while? WWYD? - Page 3

[kythe]

Originally Posted by velochic 

The 70's and Europe are much different than the 2010's and urban US.   Of course you can't reconcile it.  They are vastly different.

This does bring up another point I don't believe anyone has gotten in to.  I don't believe the world ever has been a "safer" or "better" place for kids to be left alone.  I know I said earlier that I tend to be rather lenient in personal views of kids being left alone.  But while most of us turned out fine, all it takes is one accident or problem, and you have serious issues.  This is why guidelines have been set in place as to what age child is likely to be able to care for themselves.

I work in a nursing home, we have a resident who has PTSD after an incident when she was left home alone when she was 10.  This was back in the 1930's and she had been so proud that her mother believed she was mature enough to take care of the house for a few hours.  That day, a man broke into her house while her mother was out and abused her, and she never fully recovered.  In her dementia in her old age, she kept reliving that moment over and over.  Now, even if she had been 12 or older, the outcome may not have changed.  But it's something to consider with this type of situation.  Most of us never had a bad experience being left alone, but there is always the possibility and many problems can be prevented.

[berry987]

Originally Posted by velochic 

The 70's and Europe are much different than the 2010's and urban US.   Of course you can't reconcile it.  They are vastly different.

How do you mean? There is often a misconception that the US today is more dangerous than it was in the 1970s, when in fact it is safer. The only real difference I see is a culture that supports children walking around alone without adults.

[velochic]

It's not about safety... it's about culture.  There is a difference between then and now and there is a difference between there and here.  I've lived in all of those times and places.  There's just a difference.

[Drummer's Wife]

I can't understand, for the life of me, letting a 4, 5, 6, or 7 yr old (hell, 8 or 9 yr old, for that matter) home all alone.  For 15 minutes, or for 4 hours.  What could be worth that risk?  A sense of independence?  Not having the nuisance of loading them in the car to run to the grocery store?  Not having to ask a neighbor to watch them or send them to the after school program?  I wouldn't call it free-range; more like neglectful parenting. 

Flame away, I don't really care.  Doesn't matter to me if you walked to the store as a kid when you were 2, still doesn't make it a sound decision to leave a child home alone. 

[philomom]

Originally Posted by Drummer's Wife 

I can't understand, for the life of me, letting a 4, 5, 6, or 7 yr old (hell, 8 or 9 yr old, for that matter) home all alone.  For 15 minutes, or for 4 hours.  What could be worth that risk?  A sense of independence?  Not having the nuisance of loading them in the car to run to the grocery store?  Not having to ask a neighbor to watch them or send them to the after school program?  I wouldn't call it free-range; more like neglectful parenting. 

Flame away, I don't really care.  Doesn't matter to me if you walked to the store as a kid when you were 2, still doesn't make it a sound decision to leave a child home alone. 

Thanks! That is awesome. I feel much the same way.

[MamaofLiam]

Originally Posted by Drummer's Wife 

I can't understand, for the life of me, letting a 4, 5, 6, or 7 yr old (hell, 8 or 9 yr old, for that matter) home all alone.  For 15 minutes, or for 4 hours.  What could be worth that risk?  A sense of independence?  Not having the nuisance of loading them in the car to run to the grocery store?  Not having to ask a neighbor to watch them or send them to the after school program?  I wouldn't call it free-range; more like neglectful parenting. 

Flame away, I don't really care.  Doesn't matter to me if you walked to the store as a kid when you were 2, still doesn't make it a sound decision to leave a child home alone. 

So then would you allow your children to play outside or in the neighborhood alone? Or are you with them there too? I'm just wondering because I don't really see home alone and home outside as that much different... 

I personally think there is a fine balance you have to walk. Too much hovering (i.e., helicopter) isn't good, but at the same time you don't want to be neglectful either. I think it's a bit extreme to say you wouldn't leave an 8 year old home alone for 10-15 minutes. Of course it would depend on the child, but really, all 8 year olds??? There is always going to be some element of risk in life - you are alive, therefore there is risk. 

Drummer's Wife I'm not knocking you for believing or thinking that you shouldn't leave an 8/9 year old home alone in your situation. But I don't think you can take what you believe is right in your situation and generalize to the rest of the world. Different strokes for different folks, yk? I think there are circumstances where it is fine for a child to be alone. Just like there are circumstances where its not okay. I'm not the judge, jury or the authority on other people's circumstances. Just my own. 

[serenbat]

I left my three year old alone (downstairs) for 15-20  minutes so I could take a bath - I guess I'm a bad parent too. WOW!

[belltree]

Yes, I can see that people behave different towards children if I compare now (small town US 2010) and then (small town Europe 70s). I also agree that one instance can be potentially harmful, but I am not sure that we as parents can prevent this incidence from happening even if we are with them every second until they are 18; and it raises the question if we should let go at age 18, or even later? Most abuse happens from family members and not random strangers. There is less crime compared to several decades ago. The sidewalks around here are wide, there are crosswalks on every intersection.

I personally did enjoy being without parental supervision at times, there is a difference in play, social structure, conversations amongst friends without adults; we also knew that we had to watch out for each other and for ourselves. I would love for my child to be able to experience these adult free moments without having to wait until their 18.

I prefer my child learns at an early age how to handle "life" (walking across the street, using the phone, putting on a jacket, asking for help, taking the bus, being responsible towards themselves and others). From my experience in the US, a lot of students entering college have no idea how to handle their newly gained freedom. Maybe practicing how to behave responsibly for oneself at an earlier age would have been good for these young adults.

That said, there are different neighborhoods, different parents and different children. I cannot imagine that there can nor should there be one rule for every child in the US for when they can be left alone.

[Youngfrankenstein]

Originally Posted by velochic 

Interesting perspective.  One I don't agree with.  I was very sheltered... had a babysitter until I was 13.  My grandfather lived with us, so I was never actually ever alone in the house.  Ever.  I went off to college (and was supporting myself) when I was 17 and didn't have any problems adjusting to that, even though I was not given any real independence until I actually left home.  However, my parents taught me that there is always accountability in life, even if it's to myself and how to be a responsible person.  I think it's kind of ridiculous to imply that because there is supervision, that a child won't be able to go off to college by themselves or become responsible adults.  That's like saying a kid will never learn to drive unless they are in the car alone.   A kid doesn't have to be alone in a house to learn responsibility.  If you're doing your job as a parent to prepare your child for adulthood, it doesn't matter if they are home alone or there is always someone else in the house.
 

I must agree.  This reminds me of when ds1 was about to enter Kindergarten.  The Principal gave a speech about those kids who had never been in daycare or preschool would have a hard time separating from mom.  I don't think that's the case.  It wasn't true for my ds at all.  I felt that having him at home with me for all of those years would make him very prepared to be away from me when it came time for school. 

[Drummer's Wife]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

I left my three year old alone (downstairs) for 15-20  minutes so I could take a bath - I guess I'm a bad parent too. WOW!

But how is that comparable to leaving a 4 and 6 yr old, or a 5 yr old home all alone?  I know when I'm in the house with my kids, but taking a shower, I can hear the smoke alarms go off and (hopefully) save their lives in the event of a fire.  A fire can kill someone in minutes.  I can also hear the alarm system chime if someone were intruding - or my kids decided to run out the front door.  I can also hear my kid scream because he is bleeding, or broke his leg jumping off a bunk bed.  There is a big difference between being home and accessible vs. getting into your car and driving away, where you could get into a car accident or be held up for some reason, thus leaving your 3 yr old home for longer than the intended 15-20 minutes it should have taken to run to the store real quick. 

[Drummer's Wife]

Originally Posted by MamaofLiam 

So then would you allow your children to play outside or in the neighborhood alone? Or are you with them there too? I'm just wondering because I don't really see home alone and home outside as that much different... 

I personally think there is a fine balance you have to walk. Too much hovering (i.e., helicopter) isn't good, but at the same time you don't want to be neglectful either. I think it's a bit extreme to say you wouldn't leave an 8 year old home alone for 10-15 minutes. Of course it would depend on the child, but really, all 8 year olds??? There is always going to be some element of risk in life - you are alive, therefore there is risk. 

Drummer's Wife I'm not knocking you for believing or thinking that you shouldn't leave an 8/9 year old home alone in your situation. But I don't think you can take what you believe is right in your situation and generalize to the rest of the world. Different strokes for different folks, yk? I think there are circumstances where it is fine for a child to be alone. Just like there are circumstances where its not okay. I'm not the judge, jury or the authority on other people's circumstances. Just my own. 

Hi, Shannon.  My kids are 4, 6, 8, and 10, and I do feel comfortable with them playing outside w/o me standing right there.  They are outside playing tetherball right now, actually, though I happen to be able to see them through the sliding glass doors and window, and I can hear my super loud 6 yr old's voice.  We are on half an acre, with the backyard fenced, in a semi-rural area with dirt roads and a bit of space between properties.  I guess I'm not cool with say, my 4 and 6 yr old wandering the 'hood - as safe as it seems to be here.  I am comfortable with my 8 and 10 yr old's riding their bikes, sure, but I don't think it's the same thing for them to be playing outdoors where I am still reachable and me purposely leaving them home all alone while I run an errand.  It would take me 10+ minutes to get back to them if they were able to call me if something horrible happened vs. if my DS fell off his bike and cut himself and they were on my road while I was doing something inside my home. 

I don't think an occasional 10 minutes at home alone for a 8-9+ yr old b/c mom got held up picking up a younger sibling from daycare, or whatever, is that big of a deal for most mature, responsible kids.  However, intentionally leaving a 5 yr old to fend for themselves because you think they are capable of taking care of themselves for hours at a time w/o you nearby, seems like way too big of a risk to take.  That's really what I was getting at, b/c people were commenting about leaving small children at home alone like it was a normal thing to do. 

[meemee]

Originally Posted by Drummer's Wife 

What could be worth that risk?  

not respecting your child's wishes. to me that was worth the risk at 5. i had said no to a lot of things. i couldnt keep on saying no. dd unlike most children her age has gone thru numerous experiences that made me trust her. she knew what to do in an emergency. i just never have had the fear of what if she slipped and broke her leg. i guess she would cry and the neighbor would come running. 

i guess we all have our own parenting philosophy to follow. 

[serenbat]

 I can't understand, for the life of me, letting a 4, 5, 6, or 7 yr old (hell, 8 or 9 yr old, for that matter) home all alone. For 15 minutes,          I don't think an occasional 10 minutes at home alone for a 8-9+ old b/c mom got held up picking up a younger sibling from daycare, or whatever, is that big of a deal for most mature, responsible kids.

10 minutes is OK but 15 is not? 

[velochic]

Originally Posted by belltree 
From my experience in the US, a lot of students entering college have no idea how to handle their newly gained freedom. Maybe practicing how to behave responsibly for oneself at an earlier age would have been good for these young adults.

That's because the parents were CONTROLLING.  There is a huge difference between allowing your child to grow up and learn to be independent (with supervision) vs. being a controlling parent that tells the child every thing to do until they hit the door to be on their own.  Being unable to handle the freedom is not a product of never staying at home alone.  Not AT ALL.  It's because the parent didn't teach their child to do things for themselves.

And to the person who questioned not leaving a child of 8 home alone for a half hour or so - no freaking way.  My dd has gotten the award for "RESPONSIBLE" for her grade every year, these past 3 years.  She is the most mature and responsible 9 year old I've ever met.  There is no way I'd leave her home alone and she doesn't WANT to be left alone.  She is smart enough to know that there could be situations she wouldn't know how to handle, and therefore says she isn't ready to be left alone.  And even though I quit my great career to stay home with her, she left me EASILY the first time she went off to school (full-day!).  And even though we co-slept until just a few months ago, she has been going to overnight camp for a few years and enjoys it immensely.  Not supervising your children doesn't make them independent.  You TEACH independence and life skills to a child... and you have to be there to do that.

[Llyra]

I have three kids, age 6, 4, and 4. I am absolutely okay with them playing outside without my direct supervision. Outside, there are fewer hazards-- we live off the road, so traffic is not an issue. We do not have dangerous wildlife. The kids, when they're outside, are typically in the company of my neighbors' kids, and all the kids are under the eye of a whole neighborhood of adults, who all endeavor to keep half an eye on the doings outside. If something went wrong, more than one of us would be alerted very quickly. It's a very safe situation.

I am not comfortable leaving them in my house unsupervised, if I am not within earshot outdoors. (I do leave them alone while I do things like chat with a neighbor in the yard, or weed the gardens, or stuff like that-- where I am still in the yard or nearby.) There are far many more hazards indoors. Also, a child left inside alone is more isolated-- if something goes wrong, it could take a lot longer for somebody to become aware of the situation.

It's an issue of visibility, for me. A child in a visible public location is far safer than a child squirreled away alone at home where nobody will notice if the child is not okay.

I'm actually surprised which side of this argument I'm coming up on-- I'm constantly criticized and hassled for allowing my kids to roam the neighborhood so freely, and I've come to think of myself as much more "lax" than the mainstream, on issues of supervision.

[belltree]

Velochic, you are right. I thought about what I wrote last night. It is easy to become controlling and overbearing, if you believe you cannot leave your child alone for an hour even at age 17. Similar it is easy to be negligant if you leave your 4 year old alone for an afternoon.

But I also believe that most mothers who write here are thoughtful people and evaluate their family and their children based upon their circumstances and find a good middle ground to ensure to raise independent and responsible children. Children are different, and while your does not want to be alone, I know tons of 8years old who are mature and responsible children that can and want to spend some time alone without adult supervision. You should not project from your child towards others. And I guess this is where my problem lies. People tend to judge and scream out loud to call CPS when they think a child is too young to be left alone or do a certain thing by themselves.

I also believe and have heard from children that they were afraid of walking by themselves to the corner store alone even at age 12. Mostly because they were never aloud too. Some fears in life are irrational and can be overcome.

And on a last note, co-sleeping does not have anything to do with it. My husband co-slept until age 13-14 and still spent tons of time without adults even at age 3-4.

Maybe one cannot understand the value of time without adults if one has not experienced it.

[Youngfrankenstein]

I do leave my 10 and 9 year olds alone for 10 mins very, very occasionally.  Like once every 5 months.  I don't "worry" about it because if I did, I wouldn't do it.  I would be concerned that if I were to get in an accident, what would happen at home.  If I left my kids to go to the store and ended up in the hospital, what would happen to them? 

[Llyra]

Originally Posted by belltree 

Maybe one cannot understand the value of time without adults if one has not experienced it.

We believe very strongly in the value of unsupervised time here. I start allowing my babies to play by themselves in a room, with me in a nearby room, as soon as they can reach for a hanging toy. That's why my kids play outside alone, or play in other parts of the house without me, or play inside while I am outside. I don't think I need to get in the car and drive away, to allow them the space to experience the world on their own terms. Not until they have more experience of how to handle situations that arise. Around nine or ten, as I said, beginning with short periods of time-- that's when I'm ready to try that.

[madskye]

DD is 6.  I leave her alone in the house and at this point, I'll take the dog for a walk down the block to do her business.  I'm probably gone about 10 minutes.  When I go out, DD is usually riveted in front of iCarly, and that's why she doesn't want to walk with us.  Ultimately, I think what each child can handle maturely is very individual and you as the parent are the only one who can make that assessment.

I was a latchkey kid, and took care of myself from 8 and up.  I had a single mom who dealt with a series of unreliable babysitters and at a certain point she decided I would be better with a key and firm rules in place of what I was to do after school.  It was all fine.  No fires or molesters breaking into the house.  Perhaps knowing that we lived in a sturdy structure where I had no access to matches and that we lived in a neighborhood that was also very safe was part of my mothers good parenting, and allowed her to feel comfortable letting me be a latchkey kid.  Again-the situation is all individual.

I think there is a quite a bit of class-ism going on in this thread.  We're all very lucky (myself included) to be in the position where we can not leave our child alone for any amount of time.  I'm  lucky that we can afford aftercare.  My mom couldn't, I rose up to the challenge, and I don't think that made her any less of a good mother.  I hear moms (not even just on this thread, out there in IRL, too) limiting what they think their child is capable of handling, and I often wonder how much of it is true and how much of it is the mother's need to feel indispensable.  But then again--I tell myself, each kid is different, and I am totally sure there are kids who couldn't handle it.

[philomom]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

I left my three year old alone (downstairs) for 15-20  minutes so I could take a bath - I guess I'm a bad parent too. WOW!

See.... and I had a three year old danger boy that would have torn the house up in 20 minutes unattended. And probably hurt himself or started a fire as well.