Really frustrated with nighttime cloth...

[Italiamom]

We've used disposables at night for quite a while...  It was always just easier for us (read: DH).  But I just always found DH reaching for them during the day too, no matter how hard I tried, so I thought, HEY let's make the switch and just do cloth full time.  It's not like we don't have the CDs to do it.  I let the 'sposies run out and didn't buy more.  It keeps DH from using them during the day.

The problem I'm running in to is that DS gets diaper rashes when we CD at night, and this time has been no different.  He usually doesn't pee until right before he wakes up in the morning (I know this from the 'sposie use, when he would still be dry at 6AM).  He pees, wakes up almost immediately (the boy does NOT sleep through being wet), and then I try to change him pretty promptly.  So it's not an issue of "sitting in it."  If he does pee at night, again, he wakes up and won't go back to sleep, so he gets changed pretty darn quickly so that we can ALL go back to sleep.

We used our Bum Geniuses as the exclusive night diaper for the first week (easier for DH, who does most of the nighttime parenting now), when the rash began, but I thought maybe they were just too hot.  So then this last week I've been trying our prefolds, but that doesn't seem to be helping either.

I really don't think it's a detergent issue, as I rinse the holy heck out of my diapers (three rinses in a top loader).  I'd try just the prefold with no cover, but I don't quite trust him that much yet.  It's not a yeast rash, but I tried stripping all the diapers anyway...  It really isn't in our budget right now to go and get new wool covers.  But I'm wondering if that's the only way to have success with it?

I love not having any 'sposies in the house.  But I'm beginning to feel bad for DS, and I'm wondering if 1 or 2 'sposies each night might just be how it has to go?

Ideas?

[Jaimee]

So he's rashing from the nighttime pee even though you change him immediately, but not rashing from day time pees?  Could there be an issue with him reacting to his concentrated nighttime pee?  Is it clear that he's rashing from the pee and not from the diaper itself?  In other words, do you see the rash on him at night regardless if he has peed or not?  Does he wear BG's during the day as well without issue?  He could be reacting to the synthetic suede cloth.  Is he clearly sweating in the diaper at night?   Athletic wicking liners could help with this.  Is the diaper saturated when you change him at night vs. in the day time it's just a little wet?  I ask b/c if he is peeing a ton and laying in it for just a bit, the compression could be pressing it back out of the insert onto his skin vs. in the day he has less be and it's fully absorbed by the insert.  Doublers could help with this situation.

What detergent do you use?   How did you strip?

[Carma]

Maybe you can put some diaper safe cream/oil on him? I sometimes use coconut oil, it washes out very well, and might protect him a bit from the concentrated night pee. I need it to protect our girl from her poop lately, now that she eats more solids.

If he doesn't go all night, it is prob. quite concentrated in the morning.

You could knit your own wool cover, that is a relative cheap option. I also have success with a fleece cover at night. Fleece is also not airtight, but pretty waterproof.

Carma

[is it puppies?]

ditto to coconut oil and fleece. you can find some clearance winter fleece pants and cut the legs off to use as a cover for something more breathable.

coconut oil is great for any rash and hasn't plugged up my BGs yet despite how fickle they are.

[Italiamom]

Originally Posted by Jaimee 

So he's rashing from the nighttime pee even though you change him immediately, but not rashing from day time pees?  Could there be an issue with him reacting to his concentrated nighttime pee?  Is it clear that he's rashing from the pee and not from the diaper itself?  In other words, do you see the rash on him at night regardless if he has peed or not?  Does he wear BG's during the day as well without issue?  He could be reacting to the synthetic suede cloth.  Is he clearly sweating in the diaper at night?   Athletic wicking liners could help with this.  Is the diaper saturated when you change him at night vs. in the day time it's just a little wet?  I ask b/c if he is peeing a ton and laying in it for just a bit, the compression could be pressing it back out of the insert onto his skin vs. in the day he has less be and it's fully absorbed by the insert.  Doublers could help with this situation.

What detergent do you use?   How did you strip?

Let's see...  We've been using the BGs for about a year and a half for daytime use with no similar issues, and just in case I had switched over to prefolds + covers about a week ago, still with the same rash.  The sweating is a distinct possibility...  With the athletic liners, who would sell those?  I've never actually seen them!  When I change him in the AM, he does saturate the diaper, yes.  He often will hold it all night, and if he does go in the middle of the night it's only once.  Like i said, it wakes him up, so changes happen pretty darn promptly, but it's still totally saturated.  I was using a microfiber doubler in the BG's, and an extra preemie prefold with his standard sized prefold, so I'm not sure what else I'd add, and I'm really not interested in buying more, yk?. 

I've used Planet detergent for our entire stint with cloth.  When I stripped them a week ago (so, one week after the rash started), I put all the covers and pocket outers in the sun outside all day.  I bleached all the prefolds, doublers, and microfiber BG liners, rinsed twice, washed them along with the sunned covers and pocket outers with normal detergent and two canning pots of boiling water, and then did two full wash/rinse cycles of just hot water to make sure to get any residual soap out.  I then dried everything on high heat.  I stripped ALL the diapers together, and relied on a hidden stash of 'sposies for the day, and by the end of the day the rash was noticeably better, although whether that was from the 'sposies, or from the Desitin that I wouldn't dare use with any of my cloth, I don't know.

I'm honestly just pissed at this point.  I have a HUGE stash of BG's, prefolds, and covers.  I don't want to buy more STUFF.  I really prefer not to make the waste, and not give big scary companies any of my money, but it's frustrating when their product clearly works better (at night, anyway).  I'll see if I can find some clearance fleece at the fabric store to try and make him some covers to see if that works, but knitting anything is beyond my capacity as a crafter!

[Jaimee]

I'm sorry for your frustration!  I'm a firm believer in the fact that there is a working nighttime cloth combo for every baby.  It's just a matter of finding it.  But it is possible it would require purchasing some additional items, which you may or may not wish to do.  But  remember you can get great deals on www.diaperswappers.com.

So, your stripping sounds intense and should have cleared up any bacteria/yeast issues as well as remove residue.  Planet is a great detergent.  Plus, since he wasn't previously having daytime issues with any of your dipes I would rule out contact allergy/irritation.

To help lock in the moisture and keep it away from his skin you could try hemp doublers.  My favorite is a hemp prefold, trifolded like a letter, stuffed in the pocket.  Microfiber is quick absorbing, so keep that closest to the skin.  Hemp is slow absorbing so it works great underneath.  Do you have a CDing friend you could borrow one from to just try out?  At first you could try doing this with just a cotton prefold and see if there is any improvement at all.  A prefold + microfiber will definitely be more absorbent than just the two microfiber inserts together.

Sposies aren't exactly the most breathable diapers so I honestly doubt there is a breatheability issue going on.  It is possible though, that his skin is used to being super dry at night and now its staying just slightly moist all night and then getting totally saturated when he pees.  This would especially be the case if he pees in the middle of the night and it takes a bit for him to finally wake up from it.  It is possible that liners could help.  You can purchase athletic wicking material and make your own liners.  But I also think that his skin may just need a little support.  So I would second some of the pp's and try a cloth diaper safe cream like weleda calendula cream or coconut oil each night before bed.  His skin may "toughen up" a bit with time as well. 

Another alternative to all these ideas is parttime EC at night.  This may not appeal to you at all, but it cleared up my ds's sensitive skin without any other changes.

Good luck, I hope you find what works for your family!

[is it puppies?]

Oh I noticed somebody above mentioned weleda calendula- it totally gunked up my BGs so I don't recommend it despite having read that it's safe for CDing. It even gunked them up after stripping and only using it on prefolds- which were washed with the BGs lol. I loved it though, other than wrecking my dipes!! Coconut oil has cleared up everything for us.

[Jaimee]

Originally Posted by is it puppies? 

Oh I noticed somebody above mentioned weleda calendula- it totally gunked up my BGs so I don't recommend it despite having read that it's safe for CDing. It even gunked them up after stripping and only using it on prefolds- which were washed with the BGs lol. I loved it though, other than wrecking my dipes!! Coconut oil has cleared up everything for us.

Did you use the stuff with Lanolin?  I'm just talking about the calendula.  It's true that supposedly lanolin is "safe" but I wouldn't use it either.

[Italiamom]

I tried the coconut oil almost as soon as the rash showed up to no avail.  2 nights in 'sposies with plenty of Desitin seems to have cleared it almost all the way.  We might just have to be a daytime cloth family only

[Carma]

I am using the coconut oil as a preventive. That could maybe help in your case if the moisture and acidity of the urine is causing the rash.

Carma

[is it puppies?]

Originally Posted by Jaimee 

Did you use the stuff with Lanolin?  I'm just talking about the calendula.  It's true that supposedly lanolin is "safe" but I wouldn't use it either.

It was the calendula diaper creme. I think it's the only one in the Weleda Calendula line? I wouldn't imagine that lanolin is good on the inside of cloth diapers, they use it to waterproof the covers lol! I remember seeing other "CD friendly" cremes with lanolin and thinking WTF!?  but maybe we are wrong ;) I have read both that the weleda is CD safe and not good for CDs but I don't remember if I've looked at the ingredients. I wonder if there are two versions and that's why I have read two diff things?

OP I have had such luck with coconut oil, too bad it didn't help :(

[Jaimee]

Originally Posted by Italiamom 

I tried the coconut oil almost as soon as the rash showed up to no avail.  2 nights in 'sposies with plenty of Desitin seems to have cleared it almost all the way.  We might just have to be a daytime cloth family only

Bummer!  But there are a lot of safe creams out there and you could also try corn starch.  I wonder, too, if flushable liners (like Biosoft) would help decrease the humidity in the diaper.  What does the rash look like?  Does Desitin have an anti-fungal component?  I ask b/c I know you fixed you diapers, but if he still had yeast on his skin when you switched him back to cloth, it could have re-infected the diapers.  Just a thought...  Did you try out a prefold doubler yet?

[kcsc117]

Forgive me if someone has already suggested this, but have you tried using fleece liners?? 

We had the same problem with our son just recently and were also having to use disposables at night.  After reading this article, we have no longer had any problems.  In fact, we use fleece liners with every diaper because they're so soft!  It took me 10 minutes to make and only cost me $2.10 since I was able to find some cute duck print in the remnant section of JoAnn's.

Here is the link and good luck!!

http://offbeatmama.com/2011/02/diy-cloth-diaper-liners

[Italiamom]

Originally Posted by Carma 

I am using the coconut oil as a preventive. That could maybe help in your case if the moisture and acidity of the urine is causing the rash.

Carma

I think what we might try is a few more nights in 'sposies to completely clear the rash, and then do generous amounts of coconut oil as the preventative.  I'm hoping that might help.

Originally Posted by Jaimee 


What does the rash look like?  Does Desitin have an anti-fungal component?  I ask b/c I know you fixed you diapers, but if he still had yeast on his skin when you switched him back to cloth, it could have re-infected the diapers.  Just a thought...  Did you try out a prefold doubler yet?

Desitin doesn't have an anti-fungal component as far as I know.  It's a strange rash, actually.  Not like a yeast rash at all...  I just stripped my diapers in the same way because that really strips them.  We had one yeast rash once when DS was about 6 months old, and this looks totally different.  It's spots...  Not similar to any other rash he's had.  None of these rashes match the description.  It honestly looks like acne.  I have tried out the prefolds to no avail...  I always use a doubler of some kind, either a prefold, or a microfiber doubler.

Originally Posted by kcsc117 

Forgive me if someone has already suggested this, but have you tried using fleece liners?? 

We had the same problem with our son just recently and were also having to use disposables at night.  After reading this article, we have no longer had any problems.  In fact, we use fleece liners with every diaper because they're so soft!  It took me 10 minutes to make and only cost me $2.10 since I was able to find some cute duck print in the remnant section of JoAnn's.

Thanks for the link!  I thought that I would need to buy special fleece for liners, but if you can use any old fleece then I have some scraps in my fabric stash from blankets past.  I'll sew some up in the next few days, and then maybe couple that with preventative coconut oil?  Hopefully...

Edited by Italiamom - 5/1/11 at 10:50pm

[Jaimee]

Thanks for the link!  I thought that I would need to buy special fleece for liners, but if you can use any old fleece then I have some scraps in my fabric stash from blankets past.  I'll sew some up in the next few days, and then maybe couple that with preventative coconut oil?  Hopefully...

Since you're already using a polyester lined diaper a fleece liner is not likely to wick much better, but at this point everything is worth a try if you already have some fleece on hand.  Just be sure it's a microfleece, not a windpro fleece b/c it needs to wick, not repel.
 

[Italiamom]

Originally Posted by Jaimee 

Since you're already using a polyester lined diaper a fleece liner is not likely to wick much better, but at this point everything is worth a try if you already have some fleece on hand.  Just be sure it's a microfleece, not a windpro fleece b/c it needs to wick, not repel.

Excuse my ignorance  , but how would I tell the difference between the two?  It's cheapy fleece from JoAnn's...  I used it a year or so ago as the back of a couple baby blankets.

[Jaimee]

Mircrofleece is pretty thin and when you put a bead of water on it, it will soak through.  Windpro fleece is quite thick and when you put a bead of water on it, it stays there.  The idea here is to help wick moisture away from the skin, so if the fleece repels the water then it will not be helpful, it will make the situation worse.  The suedecloth in BG's is polyester just like fleece and wicks quite well.  The texture of microfleece helps it wick just slightly better.

[lizzie]

I'm by no means an experienced CDer, coming here to get clued in a bit before I begin that adventure with my new LO, but one of the PPs mentioned cornstarch, and with my dd I found that dumping COPIOUS amounts in her diaper (sposie) cleared up almost everything... I found that out because I was putting some in her diaper at night, didn't have a lot of light and dumped way too much in - it was out of the box, off the baking shelf at the grocery store, not designed for diapers, but it was so much cheaper, and didn't have any nasty additives! - and the next morning her rash was almost completely gone. My mom had told me how wonderful it was, but it didn't help until I went overboard with it, so just another suggestion as you work through this! :)
 

ETA: that trick, using what seemed like way too much, worked throughout the diaper years for both my oldest two. :)

[ELMmomma]

He usually doesn't pee until right before he wakes up in the morning (I know this from the 'sposie use, when he would still be dry at 6AM).  He pees, wakes up almost immediately (the boy does NOT sleep through being wet), and then I try to change him pretty promptly.  So it's not an issue of "sitting in it."  If he does pee at night, again, he wakes up and won't go back to sleep, so he gets changed pretty darn quickly so that we can ALL go back to sleep.

I am going to add a different suggestion. I have been using Elimination Communication with all my children at night with a lot of success.  This might be a good segue for you especially if you know he stays dry all night. Perhaps you could set an alarm to right before you know he usually wakes up and bring him a potty instead of changing an already wet diaper? With my DD who is 6 mos I have come to know she will wake up in the night and it usually means she needs to pee.  So I put her on the potty and then she goes right back to sleep.  We are using birds eye woven cloth diapers and a wool cover at night just as back up. With the EC she is rarely wet so she hasn't had any diaper rash. Best of luck!

[Italiamom]

Originally Posted by ELMmomma 

I am going to add a different suggestion. I have been using Elimination Communication with all my children at night with a lot of success.  This might be a good segue for you especially if you know he stays dry all night. Perhaps you could set an alarm to right before you know he usually wakes up and bring him a potty instead of changing an already wet diaper? With my DD who is 6 mos I have come to know she will wake up in the night and it usually means she needs to pee.  So I put her on the potty and then she goes right back to sleep.  We are using birds eye woven cloth diapers and a wool cover at night just as back up. With the EC she is rarely wet so she hasn't had any diaper rash. Best of luck!

Sigh.

I wonder about the kids that EC works well with.  I sometimes think you EC mamas are blessed with less stubborn children...

He doesn't wake up at the same time every day, so that puts a big kink in things.  And he NEVER wakes up happy.  I try to ease him awake and calm him down, before going to change him first thing.  And if YOU wake him up, ohhhhhhhh, then it's hours of grumpyness.  So it's not as though I could wake him up and put him on the toilet.  I have given that course of action the good college try.  But if I rush him to do anything then the rest of the day is SHOT.  And I'm not willing to ruin whole days just so that I can stop using 1-2 'sposies at night.  I'm trying to get him to at least sit on the potty for a minute or two each day, when he's happy and awake, and I have a feeling if I started rushing him there in the morning then it would be like everything else I try to make him do...  No good.  He's 2, so he's nearing potty learning age anyway.  So I'm especially hesitant to do anything that would turn the potty into a battle.  And in the AM, everything with him is a battle.

I am sincerely jealous of all you mamas who got the EC to work.  I have a kid who hates waking up.  There is no having him do anything first thing in the morning.  It usually takes about 5 minutes just to get his diaper off.  I try to do it asap as soon as he wakes up, but it's always been a fight.  Even more so now that he's a strong toddler.

I've tried asking him upon waking, "do you want to try going to the potty?" to which he usually says, "go away" or "no thank you" in his grumpiest morning voice.

After 3 nights of 'sposies we've got the rash cleared.  I cut up some fleece remnants and tried using that as liner over a premium prefold last night, with some coconut oil.  His skin seemed less damp this morning than it is with the BGs, and certainly less damp than with the prefold right next to his skin.  I'm puzzled as to why it would be "dryer" than with the BG's, because it's basically the same idea...  But I had the fleece handy, so I'm hopeful that this might do the trick!

Edited by Italiamom - 5/5/11 at 2:49am