Where do you draw the line?

[jezebelle]

We all have "rules" for our homes and our parenting, though we might not call them rules.  Examples of this might be no smoking, no cursing, or even no television.  I think that most of us tend to live and let live, however, so whether or not other parents follow the same standards is their business...unless they are in your home.  You likely wouldn't allow a visitor to light up a cigarrette in front of your infant in your kitchen, but where do you draw the line?

Before my son came into the picture, my husband had to have a word with my in-laws about spanking.  We don't allow hitting in our house, and that extends to the adults, even when disciplining children.  If they choose to spank in their own homes, that is their business, even though we don't agree with it, but they can keep it out of our house.  I feel pretty justified in this decision.

My own brother, however, yelled at his 8-year-old a few nights ago in my living room.  When I say yell, I mean he was screaming at him.  To the point that my nephew began crying.  Why was he screaming at him?  Because my brother had mixed a new soft drink that he wanted my nephew to try, and my nephew didn't want to.  I felt that this went way beyond acceptable discipline, and it broke the only rule on my refrigerator that is in all caps:  "Everyone is to be treated with respect."  I don't really want that kind of behavior in my home, especially less than ten feet away from my 3-month-old.

So how unreasonable would it be to interfere?  To tell my brother that he, too, must be respectful of everyone in my home, including his son?  This is in line with the positive discipline, attachment parenting style of family that we have, but it's totally out of line with my brother's completely dominant, aggressive, and sometimes borderline violent personality. 

(I should also mention that my nephew has Asperger's and ADD.  He is in family therapy, and my brother has been instructed by his therapist to refrain from using threatening, aggressive, or punitive discipline with my nephew completely.)

I am just at my wit's end and I am thisclose to sending an e-mail to all of my immediate family with a new list of rules for ALL of us to follow.

What do you think?  Am I just overreacting?

(**Edited to add:  My question goes beyond discipline, which is why I posted it here and not in GD.  My brother is generally disrespectful to his son, whether it be yelling, talking down to him, or straight ignoring him.)

[onlyzombiecat]

It is your home. If you don't like the way someone is behaving you can reasonably tell them to stop the behavior or leave. They may choose to be mad at you and never return to your house again.

You may want to suggest to your brother that he get some therapy for himself.

[marinak1977]

I agree with the PP. I would interfere because you don't have to tolerate this kind of behavior in your home.
I feel bad for your DN though. How sad.

[crunchy_mommy]

Wow.

I would just talk directly to your brother. And if he cannot follow your house 'rules' then he is no longer invited over. TBH, I'm not sure he'd be invited over at all anyway, I just wouldn't want that kind of negativity/disrespect around my kid. Is there any reason he needs to visit you??

I would not email all family members with a list of rules, that just seems over-the-top and condescending -- unless ALL the family members are behaving like this...

In the moment, I would have probably asked him to step outside if he felt the need to continue yelling at nephew, or if that wasn't feasible, just taken my kids and retreated to a quiet part of the house or for a walk outside.

[ssh]

You can say "there's no violence of any kind allowed in my home, including verbal violence. If you can't control yourself, you can leave. "  We used to have a roommate and one of his friends had a drinking problem. I told the guy not to come over to my house drunk, that I didn't want my DD being around people in that condition. I ended up asking him to leave about 3 times.  You are not overreacting.

[SpiderMum]

If it happens again I'd tell him he can either leave your home or calm down and quit screaming. Nobody wants that in their home even if they don't have small children around!

[new2this]

If your that passionate about it I would ask him to leave. I tend to draw the line when it would become physical abuse(not spanking). However if one choses to discipline differently then what DH and I do its their child. My house or not. I would ask that they however go do it in a different room. I wouldn't like it if someone interfered in my parenting when at their house because they felt it was wrong or whatnot so I would give the same respect to my visitors and their kids. 

Things like smoking, drinking is easier to say no go outside ect. I mean it is your house so you can do what you want. But I would pick battles lightly more so when it comes how one parents their own kids. 

I also would not send a set of rules. But if you do then I guess be prepared to not have anyone visit because its seems a bit over the top. 

[CarrieMF]

Well you need to decide how important this is to you.  

This is his child, it just happened to be in your house.  If you interfere you could be setting yourself up for issues later.  If you're at your brother's house & he feels you aren't disciplining your child in a way that he sees fit & then since you put yourself into his parenting then he can put himself into your parenting & discipline your child in a way that you don't agree with.

[SubliminalDarkness]

I think I would have a one-on-one chat with my brother about not wanting him screaming in your home. I think I would say it's something you don't want your kids exposed to in their own home. I definitely would not send out a general e-mail. I would deal with situations as they arise if necessary. No sense in possibly off-putting relatives for no good reason. I think I, personally, would take great offense if I received an e-mail of "rules" for being around family. 

[One_Girl]

My only line is inappropriate talk and me or my daughter will say "little ears are present."  Other than that I don't care.  We don't hit in our family so that isn't a worry.  I suggest telling him he seems really stressed out lately and offer to watch the kids while he gets out for some peace and quiet.  It isn't easy to always stay calm when you are dealing with a difficult child and if he doesn't fly off the handle like that very often at your house I would let it go.  If this is an ongoing problem with many family members then sending out house rules may be a good idea.  If it is ongoing with just him I would talk to him privately about trying not to yell.  We don't have family rules but we make comments to each other about appropriateness or taking deep breathes, except when someone is clearly off the deep end and such a comment will increase the anger and tension in the room. 

[SuburbanHippie]

If his house rule is don't do X or you get a spanking and your DS was to do X, would you be okay with him telling you to spank him because that is his house rule? 

[fairejour]

How is this the same at all? She is asking him to not scream at a child in her home, which is perfectly appropriate. I wouldn't allow someone to smoke or drink or do drugs, and I wouldn't allow them to abuse a child either.

[Dukey25]

I have yet to read all the reply's but I am eager to. I live this situation as well and while I want to say not in my house I am hesitant because I would like to continue a limited relationship with my siblings family so that when their kids are old enough they will have a safe place to run to.

[beenmum]

I stay out of other peoples parenting and expect that same respect.

Its your home, yes. However you have a 3 month old? Is that it? B/c honestly you will probably slip up from time to time and do something or say something stupid also. Its not your job to police parenting unless its abusive.

I wont spank my kids, but I sure as heck wont stand there wagging my finger if someone else does it. I'm not raising thier kids. I dont get to police them regardless of whose house I am in. Again UNLESS its abusive.

Rules such as smoking and not having guns, drugs, alcohol etc are rules I expect to be obyed. I dont expect to force my parental views on anyone else.

[cristeen]

I would skip the mass email. I also would skip setting "rules". I think you probably should have said something at the time. But I know I struggle w that myself. At this point, i'd choose a calm neutral time to have a phone or face-to-face (not email) conversation w him and just try to be honest (and not judgemental). Let him know that what happened really made you uncomfortable. Ask him if he feels he needs more support/help. And then be prepared to listen. Is he full of excuses or does he agree that the behavior was not ideal? Depending on his reaction, i'd be prepared to let him know that next time it happens you will ask him to step outside for a parental time out because you do not want that behavior around your child. And it may be that if hes just full of excuses, that its time to limit your exposure to him.

Ultimately, if you dont give someone the information and the opportunity to change, then they likely never will. Cutting him off accomplishes nothing except isolating your DN. Saying nothing implies agreement with the action.

HTH

[beenmum]

I disagree with the notion that saying nothing implies agreement. I see alot of things that I dont agree with, however I am not educating, raising nor finacially contributing to the raising of other peoples children...why should they have to conform to my parenting ideals?

Of course, again, unless its abusive.

I would be livid if I walked into someones home and they told me that they dotn agree with Time outs or my more conservative parenting ideals, and I had to use what they were comfy with while in their home.

No, that doesnt work for me. I dont ask anyone for help raising my kids, why should I have to obey someone elses parenting stratigies?

[crunchy_mommy]

Originally Posted by beenmum 

I disagree with the notion that saying nothing implies agreement. I see alot of things that I dont agree with, however I am not educating, raising nor finacially contributing to the raising of other peoples children...why should they have to conform to my parenting ideals?

Of course, again, unless its abusive.

I would be livid if I walked into someones home and they told me that they dotn agree with Time outs or my more conservative parenting ideals, and I had to use what they were comfy with while in their home.

No, that doesnt work for me. I dont ask anyone for help raising my kids, why should I have to obey someone elses parenting stratigies?

I think some would argue that yelling & screaming is verbal abuse, that spanking is physical abuse, etc. especially when it's not tied to misbehavior (and it sounds like in the OP, it wasn't discipline........) We're not talking about asking someone not to use time-outs in your house or whatever... We're talking about screaming at a kid because he didn't want to taste a soda????

I would not want that in my house. If it happened in someone else's house, I would leave (and have done so, in fact), but if it happens in my house, I think I'm well within my rights to ask them to leave, and not invite them back. (Not saying OP has to cut out her brother & nephew, just keep gatherings in more neutral territory so she isn't 'trapped'...) I have had a difficult past and that kind of behavior would trigger all sorts of negativity and fear in me... so maybe that is coloring my reaction here, but I just don't think anyone needs to tolerate irrational yelling & screaming in their own home. That's not healthy. I don't mind if people bring meat to eat in my vegan home. I don't mind if they put their kid in time-outs in a corner of my living room. I don't mind if they have a beer or two, even though I don't drink, and I don't mind if they drive off with their kid FF instead of RF. Those are all their choices and they don't really negatively affect me. I do mind if someone smokes, sprays chemicals, yells, hits/spanks, throws rocks, etc. in my home (whether or not it's for reasons of 'discipline') because those things do affect me, and create an unhealthy environment in my own home.

[beenmum]

If they are talking to my kids, then I have all the say in the world. If they are talking to a kid in my care, I will have final say. If it is their kid...I have no say on how bad of a parent they choose to be., Would it upset me, yes of course.

Would I feel I had the right to demand they confomr to my parenting ideals, no.

I could ask them to never come back. But again, why cut out the boy b/c his father acted like a noob?

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by jezebelle 

So how unreasonable would it be to interfere?  To tell my brother that he, too, must be respectful of everyone in my home, including his son?  This is in line with the positive discipline, attachment parenting style of family that we have, but it's totally out of line with my brother's completely dominant, aggressive, and sometimes borderline violent personality. 

....(I should also mention that my nephew has Asperger's and ADD.  He is in family therapy, and my brother has been instructed by his therapist to refrain from using threatening, aggressive, or punitive discipline with my nephew completely.)

...  My brother is generally disrespectful to his son, whether it be yelling, talking down to him, or straight ignoring him.)

that is so sad, for both of them.

Mass emails are always a bad idea.

This is your brother, and his behavior toward his special needs son is heartbreaking. What is your relationship with your brother like? Could the two of you go out for coffee and just talk? Is there a way you could gently point out what he is doing without attacking him?

My kids are 12 and 14, and even though I'm GD, APing and all that, I've lost it and yelled at my kids. Sadly, by the time your child is my child's ages, you will have failed to live up to your parenting standards a few times. It happens to us all.

I'd approach the conversation with your brother with love and compassion. Having a sn child is tough (my oldest has Asperger's). It's frustrating, and it sounds like your brother lacks some basic skills. Was one of your parents a little off in their parenting? Did you guys grow up with screaming or worse?

I'm just wondering if having a real heart to heart with your brother with compassion would be better all around. It's much nicer to build something wonderful than to be right.

As far as where the line is in a general sense, I think it always depends on the whole situation. If yelling started in my house, I would attempt to de-escalate it, to find a way to diffuse the situation. "We need to take this down a notch" is a phrase I like.

[crunchy_mommy]

Originally Posted by beenmum 

If they are talking to my kids, then I have all the say in the world. If they are talking to a kid in my care, I will have final say. If it is their kid...I have no say on how bad of a parent they choose to be., Would it upset me, yes of course.

Would I feel I had the right to demand they confomr to my parenting ideals, no.

I could ask them to never come back. But again, why cut out the boy b/c his father acted like a noob?

But I don't think anyone is saying that the OP should tell her brother how to parent (at least I'M not saying that) -- only that she does not need to put up with that kind of behavior in her own home. In a public setting or someone else's home would be a whole 'nother story. She doesn't need to cut out her brother or his son. She could invite just the nephew over to play. She could get together with the brother at a restaurant or park or whatever. There are a lot of ways to maintain the relationship, let the brother parent how he wants, AND maintain a peaceful and safe home for herself & her child(ren).