cross-post: when to send a gifted and disabled child to Kindergarten?

[DariaD]

Please see my post at http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1310836/gifted-with-disabilities-and-kindergarten-redshirting-pros-cons

Thanks.

[Geofizz]

Glad you made it here to MDC, DariaD.  I hope you get great advice that can help sort through the social, behavioral, and academic issues.

[whatsnextmom]

I certainly don't envy you your decision as it is a very difficult one. I'll start by saying I'm very against red-shirting in general. I thing it's become terribly mis AND over-used and has resulted in some real long term problems in our school systems. Personally, I have two gifted kids young in grade. DD is young due to a grade skip. DS is "right" for grade but did start at 4yr, 10 months which was within our district cut-off. We're very grateful they can be where they are.

That said, your list of "cons" is substantial in quantity and weight of importance. Unless they could offer him a 1-to-1 aide, I don't know that I would send him but you are right, waiting a year is going to create it's own set of issues. I'd say what you really need is a 3rd option. That could be that you hold him out THIS year but perhaps consider putting him in 1st grade next year instead of kindergarten.... he'd get the "time" without the loss of an academic year. Is homeschooling an option for the next few years? How about a private, very small class size kindergarten? Perhaps a Montessori? Is there any grade school programs like the preschool?

Of course, you didn't mention whether you thought his current issues would be resolved in a year. Are the toileting issue GOING to resolve itself or do you think it's going to be an issue he deals with for several years. If this is the case, dealing with it in school now is no worse than dealing with it next year. Do you think the paying attention issues IS immaturity, a neurological thing or a difficulty only when his environment is not fitting his intellectual needs? I'm just asking whether you think these issues are personality or development.

If it were me, I'd likely wait and see where he is a month from school starting in the fall. Keep all his options open. If you need to register him, do so. It's not a big deal to change your mind. Give him a chance for that summer growth that often happens and see what feels right then before making an affirmative choice. If August comes and you see no real change, I'd not send to a regular kindergarten. That said, I would be looking for alternatives to simply red-shirting but as is, I can't imagine kindergarten being a positive environment. 

I just wanted to add that both my gifted kids had an accident during their kindergarten year which flabbergasted me considering they had both gone YEARS without an accident prior to kindie. It's not super uncommon. I guess the issue is whether you think he and the school can manage it as it'll be difficult for a teacher alone in a class of 20 5-year-olds to remind him regularly.

[joensally]

My son is 2E and 8.5.  What helped our decision making process was to acknowledge that he was going to need more time and help developing all aspects of himself in his world, and that he was going to be intellectually out of sync with his school mates whether we held back, kept with age mates, or skipped.  On the one hand, kindie/grade 1 classes can be gentler places than subsequent grades, but they can also be very challenging for younger boys who are struggling developmentally/socially/emotionally and are out of sync cognitively - my son had very little patience for academic basics in kindie, and lacked the ability to manage his feelings or to find alternate entertainment strategies (that were acceptable).

Other than handwriting (DS has dysgraphia), I have had no school-based academic goals for DS.  I was confident that he would master all K-3 skills just being in our family, and that the focus needed to be on developing all those other skills - self-care, self-regulation, sensory management, gross and fine motor, social skills.  We focussed on OT, social skills, self-regulation, playing, gross motor coaching (ie gymnastics, swimming).  We had a horrible kindie year, HS'd grade 1 and he's been in a unique program for grades 2 and 3.  Time and effort have made a big difference - he's now very socially integrated, has developed amazing self-regulation skills (not in all things, but huge improvement) - just everything is better.  To the point where he regularly plays a leadership role in the classroom and on the playground, and a substitute teacher had no idea he was atypical after days with him.

So, what worked for us was to make academics in school secondary to developing other areas.  I don't know what we're going to do next year (!), as grade 4 is where there's a lot more seat and written work.  DS really doesn't see school as a place for learning, which is the one downside to our approach - but in all honesty, there was no program that could have accomodated his differences/quirks and his academic needs.  He's a very self-directed learner, so my main worry now is that he grows to understand that school's a place for learning. 

GL.  These decisions are hard.  One piece of sage advice is to deal with this year as that's what you know the most about.

[DariaD]

Originally Posted by whatsnextmom 

That said, your list of "cons" is substantial in quantity and weight of importance. Unless they could offer him a 1-to-1 aide, I don't know that I would send him but you are right, waiting a year is going to create it's own set of issues. I'd say what you really need is a 3rd option...Is homeschooling an option for the next few years? How about a private, very small class size kindergarten? Perhaps a Montessori? Is there any grade school programs like the preschool?

Of course, you didn't mention whether you thought his current issues would be resolved in a year. Are the toileting issue GOING to resolve itself or do you think it's going to be an issue he deals with for several years. If this is the case, dealing with it in school now is no worse than dealing with it next year. Do you think the paying attention issues IS immaturity, a neurological thing or a difficulty only when his environment is not fitting his intellectual needs?

I think the attention issue is probably neurological, and as such unlikely to resolve itself even if we hold him out; I think it's something we'll be facing for years.  It's better when he's interested (and therefore COULD be better in K).

We can't homeschool, and the local Montessori is not appropriate. I am still looking into Plan C, but right now it appears to be just the two possibles.  Frustrating.
 

Originally Posted by joensally So, what worked for us was to make academics in school secondary to developing other areas....

GL.  These decisions are hard.  One piece of sage advice is to deal with this year as that's what you know the most about.

Sounds like you did wonders for your child.  And yes, I'm trying not to look ahead too far, because it's crazymaking.  If I can get his K year to be a "practice being in school year" then it might be worth sending him to K -- he'd be working hard, just not on the stuff the rest of the kids are working hard on...

Thanks to you both!

[karne]

I'll share that our preemie, gifted, ds was either going to be the very youngest, or very oldest in his grade. Academics have never been an issue, but being socially ready to be in school was.  We chose being the oldest, which was the right choice for ds.  I have to be frank and say that he was not engaged by any of the curriculum until the present year, but again, our goals were not really academic.  Our pedi had been talking with us about some of the "unknowns" with preemie kids that might not fully present themselves until our ds was school aged--which in fact turned out to be our experience.  In our situation, it feels helpful to be working with this at a slightly older, versus younger age-there's a little more clarity about what we're seeing, we aren't caught in the "young for age" thing that I think can happen with preemies.

I don't really think there is any right answer-whatever decision you make, you sound like a very informed, involved parent who can help navigate the waters ahead.  I have seen really young looking, socially awkward kids just blossom as they get older, and "fit" just right into their grade, and kids who were young for grade, with challenges, who clearly would have benefited from both time and intervention. It's so hard to know this early.  We personally felt that we needed to base our decision on the fact that our ds was going to be living in the "now", so the fit needed to be as optimal as possible at the present moment, and we would deal with making other choices as the need arose down the line.

[KCMichigan]

I have twin DDs. They are most likely gifted, but each has special needs as well.

DD1 is NOT potty trained at all due to a digestive disorder.

DD2 has very mild cp and is 'quirky' (has a PDD_NOS dx, but doubt it is fully accurate).

Last year, we were going to send them to K at age 4y 10 m per the state we lived in. They had mastered K curriculum and both would have had a 504 in place to address their unique needs.

Then we moved.

DDs no longer eligible for K. Now they are enrolled in K for this fall at 5y 9 m when school starts and be in a K/1 split class. They , again, will have a 504. We have meet with the school and will meet again before the start of school. Academically they are 1-3rd grade skills easy, socially & gross motor DD2 is behind a year or so. They do not qualify for IEP for special needs due to the lack of academic impact, BUT they both have 'life impairing' conditions that require special accommodations so get 504s. They *may* qualify for a Gifted IEP, but they will not determine that until school starts.

I would meet with the school , see what they can offer per accommodations. You may be surprised (both pleasantly or horrified) at what they are willing to do. They may have a good social worker that could help w/ social skills and attention span.

You also could talk to a K teacher and see how in line his abilities are for his age  (vs his cognitive abilities). I thought one of my DDs was inattentive, but really she is in par with her age- just seemed off due to the unbalance between her social skills and academic abilities.

I also would make sure that your DS could do the spec.ed preschool. I know in both states we lived in- if a child was eligible for K, they no longer were eligible for public preschool (spec ed or regular funded by the state). 

Another idea- if he has an IEP, could you do both? I know of kiddos that did a gradual shift into K from Spec.Ed preschool (started at 10/90 and by end of the year was at 90/10 time included) and then go on to either 1st grade if ready or do a full time K option. A year can make a BIG difference.

[DariaD]

Originally Posted by karne 

 Our pedi had been talking with us about some of the "unknowns" with preemie kids that might not fully present themselves until our ds was school aged--which in fact turned out to be our experience. ...  We personally felt that we needed to base our decision on the fact that our ds was going to be living in the "now", so the fit needed to be as optimal as possible at the present moment, and we would deal with making other choices as the need arose down the line.

Thanks, Karne-- you're the closest we've found to our own situation. Can I ask-- what are the unknowns that are cropping up?  We found that docs were totally unwilling to be predictive, even about things like ADHD that are *extremely* common in the preemie population. Even though we are not the type to panic about "what ifs" and it would be darned helpful to know what's possible and/or likely, they just haven't wanted to go there.

I agree about the in the moment part-- the hard part being that fall is still 3+ months away and I can't even judge now what he'll need by then!  :-/
 

Originally Posted by KCMichigan ... They do not qualify for IEP for special needs due to the lack of academic impact, BUT they both have 'life impairing' conditions that require special accommodations so get 504s. ....

...You also could talk to a K teacher and see how in line his abilities are for his age  (vs his cognitive abilities). I thought one of my DDs was inattentive, but really she is in par with her age- just seemed off due to the unbalance between her social skills and academic abilities.

...Another idea- if he has an IEP, could you do both? I know of kiddos that did a gradual shift into K from Spec.Ed preschool (started at 10/90 and by end of the year was at 90/10 time included) and then go on to either 1st grade if ready or do a full time K option. A year can make a BIG difference.

KCMichigan, denial of IEP for lack of academic impact seems bizarre to me.  If you google "functional" within the wrightslaw website, you see that IDEA specifically covers "functional" skills (i.e. not only academic skills, but also other relevant skills). 

Wherever DS is next year, he will get serious IEP services (OT, PT, Adaptive Phys Ed) and some amount of classroom support.  I know he's truly behind age norms in gross motor, attention, and things like waiting his turn, and truly far ahead academically. 

Doing both schools is an interesting and out of the box idea-- they are not in the same place, OR on the same calendar, so there would be transportation and organization issues... and it's probably not legally possible because the preschool is not in district... but I'll think on it.

Thanks!

[KCMichigan]

KCMichigan, denial of IEP for lack of academic impact seems bizarre to me.  If you google "functional" within the wrightslaw website, you see that IDEA specifically covers "functional" skills (i.e. not only academic skills, but also other relevant skills). 

DD2 did have an IEP in state #1 for weekly PT & OT (after 2.5 years of private and EI therapies). When we moved to state #2, they declared her 'functional'- which she is- and able to participate in a general ed setting and make adequate progress. Due to academic skills way past expectations and the ability to participate in a gen ed. class makes her ineligible for IEP-- but rather falling in a 504 category of having a disability that impairs life functions. (she fatigues quickly and is behind on all gross motor skills, some social play, and has a hard time with auditory stimulus) Each year it has improved and the severity of either do not effect her enough to prevent full time in a Gen Ed. setting- from the time she had an IEP at age 3y 7 m to 5 years we also saw MAJOR improvements in social interactions and ability to tolerate change/sensory input. As, with anything the intensity, severity, and frequency of certain behaviors can mean a big difference between a Spec.Ed setting and a Gen Ed. setting (or a variety of both).

DD1 simply has a medical condition that requires a nurses care periodically (she is NOT potty trained at all at 5 due to medical complication from prematurity). She has no other complications or divergences from the standard K student physically. Again, that calls for a 504 rather than an IEP since she can be served successfully in a Gen. Ed. setting without needing assistance from a Spec.Ed teacher.

504s can include PT & OT as well.

My DDs were preemies as well. Our 'old' (state #1) Pedi also stated that DDs may need more support once they get older as well--after intensive support from EI from 0-3 and for DD2 from 3-5 from the local schools. He also stated that it is hard to predict individually and to do our best on being proactive now. New Pedi (in state #2) also has been very supportive and consistent on making sure that DDs are both making progress- while also telling me that a lot of premature kiddos are full of unknowns. Both DDs have lingering preemie concerns even now (physically for both DDs and socially for DD2).

FWIW- we would have sent DDs to K as 4y10m olds last year with support from the schools. ( DD2 would have gotten OT & PT- DD1 would have shared an aide on her 504 for bathroom needs). We had already met and discussed it-- I was lucky and in a VERY supportive school that the girls had done PreK in. They were aware that both girls were ahead academically and prepared to meet their needs with differentiated math/reading instruction already- we had met the K teacher as well.

This year- I regret the lost year. Neither DD has less 'concerns'  than last year( DD1 will still needed bathroom assistance and DD2 is still quirky, tires out, and is socially odd) . Now they are even further ahead academically.....but the one plus is that they have already talked of pulling both DDs for reading support from the gifted teacher and they will be in a K/1 split class to help meet academic needs- though their skills range from 1st grade to late 3rd.

Wherever DS is next year, he will get serious IEP services (OT, PT, Adaptive Phys Ed) and some amount of classroom support.  I know he's truly behind age norms in gross motor, attention, and things like waiting his turn, and truly far ahead academically. 

Doing both schools is an interesting and out of the box idea-- they are not in the same place, OR on the same calendar, so there would be transportation and organization issues... and it's probably not legally possible because the preschool is not in district... but I'll think on it.

It could be doable! Maybe afternoon K and am preschool? Or switch? If written into IEP they could provide transportation and an aide if needed. Really--- the IEP should be written to meet your DS needs, not fit him into what is available. Does the district have a preschool for Spec.Needs? Would a one on one aide in K be a better option to help with turn taking/waiting/social skills/physical gross motor skills ( DD2 did stretches and exercises daily w/ the class aide for 5- 10 minutes as part of her day in PreK- PT simply left a list of what to do), etc? Your DS could likely have more differentiation in academics in K and then with the support of a Spec.Ed teacher &  OT & PT be successful? 

[karne]

Originally Posted by DariaD 

Thanks, Karne-- you're the closest we've found to our own situation. Can I ask-- what are the unknowns that are cropping up?  We found that docs were totally unwilling to be predictive, even about things like ADHD that are *extremely* common in the preemie population. Even though we are not the type to panic about "what ifs" and it would be darned helpful to know what's possible and/or likely, they just haven't wanted to go there.

I agree about the in the moment part-- the hard part being that fall is still 3+ months away and I can't even judge now what he'll need by then!  :-/
 

Our pedi was essentially the same way, and for the most part I am glad.  If he had predicted based upon ds' first year and a half or so, the situation might have looked pretty grim to us.  As it was, ds just surprised all of us with his growth, cognitive abilities, physical growth-he's a preemie success story according to the pedi.  However, you're right, some things are very common to preemies, and we've encountered a bit.  ADD/ADHD for sure, as dx this year, although it doesn't look very typical, and we didn't have a lot of early indicators.  Some sensory issues, although that is lessening, and ds has found a very socially appropriate way to manage his need in the classroom. Some fine motor issues that may or may not eventually be dx as dysgraphia.  We have also had a fair amount of resp. illness, and have had absences from school, although it gets fewer and fewer each year-now it's within the realm of normal, to the point of not being very much of a concern.

I want to say that it's all manageable.  Sometimes I think my perspective is colored because of all of the "what ifs", we don't have things too badly.  But they remain a challenge, and a particular challenge when you combine it with high intellectual ability because the challenges get in the way.  It sort of skews the whole experience at school.  

We homeschooled for the year before kindy, which was the best option for us, and I miss the experience some days because it was fun, stimulating, and the things that are challenges at school, are much less so at home.  But, my ds really wanted to go to school.  We didn't have as much knowledge about our ds' issues prior to school as you do-his seemed to really take shape over the years.  With your knowledge, no matter what you decide to choose, you can advocate from the get go.  I'm thinking particularly of the attentional issues.  We were slower to really have a handle on this, and honestly, it's been very painful to see the ways in which ADD is still misunderstood and handled. We pretty much had a crisis about it this year, and believe me, I am no wall flower when it comes to my child's needs, but it was still very hard. We don't yet have a 504, but I'm leaning in that direction if need be.  

So, while ds could have easily been in either class to start, for us it makes sense that he's where he's at now.  We all anticipated at the beginning of his school,career that he'd be missing a lot of school, which in a way really made the decision to wait a year make sense to allow for more maturity of his immune system.  That piece has worked very well.  But truly, no matter where you end up placing your son, he will not be the only child with attentional or other issues to work on.  It wasn't unknown for kids to occ have accidents in kindy, or later.  PT and OT are very common, even just as consults to parents and teachers.

Like I said, I don't think there's one right answer.  My ds is on the border of two classes, and I don't think there is an an exact fit with either one-nothing is perfect.  Ultimately, you have to go with what your gut tells you about where your ds, and you, will be most comfortable.  For some kids the path from kindy on seems quite smooth-I have another child who represents this part of the school experience.  but for others, there's a lot of "stuff" to contend with in the early years.

A final thought--our ds' enrichment has always come from our home experience.  We can do so much at home that truly meets the desire and passion for exploration and depth of inquiry.  Good luck-feel free to PM me if you want to talk more :)  Hope that helps!