Is it possible to teach a toddler *NOT* to do something?

[texmati]

my son is a 'young' 19 months-- I think he's a bit less mature than others his age. We've been disciplining by 1) just plum avoiding bad situations 2) distracting him and have slowly been working on teaching appropriate behavoirs.

This has been working really well for us-- I'm so proud that he now understand that you 'pat' little sister, that chalk can only go outside, that we say 'sshhh' quietly when sister is sleeping.

But I've never been successful at teaching him *not* to do something. the two main issues are hitting the power button on the tv, and going through teh clothes baskets adn throwing everything on the floor... but it's getting worse.

I know this makes me a horrible person, but DS is terrified of *this* toy dog. We've been putting it in front of the tv, or in the clothes basket and DS keeps a wiiiiide breadth. It works, but I find my self doing things like humming the song when I want him to stop doing something, or threatening to go get the doggy.

His eyes get big and wide and he says 'who, who doggy no! no!". This has been going on for a week-- and I've put teh dog in the closet for now.

But what else can I do?

[Agatha_Ann]

In my house with my own kids and my daycare kids, this is what I do. For the trivial things, like pulling clothes out or all the books on the bookshelves, taking out the movies, etc...I give it a couple weeks to see if they get it out of their system. Sometimes the novelty of it wears off during that time all on its own. If it doesn't, then I will say, "Uh oh, clothes stay in the basket, if you want to dump, lets find a toy" and then we will find something that addresses the same skill in a more appropriate forum. Even filling up a cardboard box with rags would be a great way to offer him a place he can play and an activity you can immediately redirect him.

The things you are describing your DS doing are all great skills for his age and he is learning cause and effect with the things he is doing. Fill and dump and on and off are both developmentally appropriate actions. As caregivers, it is our job to provide them with opportunities to practice these things in a safe space. IMO threatening to get a toy that scares him is the same as a parent threatening to get the belt. It's using fear to "train him".

I don't think you will have any success simply telling him what he can't do. A toddler's brain doesn't work like that. You can definitely show him the things he CAN do using the same skills and everyone will win.

[treeoflife3]

I agree with Agatha that the concept of scaring him into behavior with a toy is no different than scaring with threats of the belt or what have you.  I also agree that what he is doing is exactly what all toddlers do to develop skills.  For clothes in the laundry basket, rags in a box work, just as she said.  I also let my kiddo 'help' with the laundry giving her some towels and such to 'fold' or what have you while I do everything else.  I also have toys with buttons that give her a cause and effect reaction.  You won't be able to teach him what NOT to do well, but you can definitely teach him what he CAN do.  Throwing is another thing he'll probably start doing.  I have a soft squishy ball that I allow kiddo to throw and remind her when she throws something else that she needs to get her 'squishy ball' if she wants to throw things.  Telling her 'don't throw' is meaningless and difficult to follow as she doesn't have a developed impulse control but the feeling of throwing is enjoyable.  Same with hitting, I got her a drum to hit... which conveniently is more fun for her as it makes a loud sound too... although it is tiresome if she wants to hit it for long periods of time for me hehehe

[hakeber]

Actually it is hard to teach an adult to NOT do something.  That is why throughout the ages we have had to resort to shock therapy and other pavolvian type behaviorial modification to stop unwanted behavior.  The human brain is not wired to process inaction.  We are hard wired for action.

Your son does not sound immature to me.  He sounds spot on for a 19mo.  The best thing you can do for anyone of any age is turn a negative into a positive.  So for my team of teachers instead of saying "stop using worksheet."  I say "you need to REPLACE the worksheet with interactive activities like these."  Instead of saying "No more spelling and grammar quizzes to determine the depth of vocabulary."  I say: You need to use these creative prompts to get the students employing the words and structures they know."

The same thing for my kids.  Instead of "stop shouting." (which by the way I almost always shout out first as an instinct, but I KNOW they won't follow) I say "whisper whisper, inside voice!"  and instead of "stop bouncing on my couch dammit!" (which again is my gut instinct go to when I see it happening and hear the springs on my brand new couch being needlessly strained) "bounce in the garden please." and pick him up off my couch and chuck him in the back yard. (DS is 6 BTW.)

I try to remember Newton's law of motion.  An object in motion will stay in motion unless an unbalanced force acts upon it.  The idea is that you redirect the action rather than try to stop it, because part of the GD process is not using unbalance force if possible, right?  (obviously life and death situations is another story) You find a way to meet the need they have for the action they are taking in a better way.

DD does the sort of thing you describe all the time.  We can't move the TV, so we just keep picking her up and moving her away saying, no thank you, and like the  bathrooms and the trash cupboard she will eventually get it.  Now if someone leaves them open she stands in front of the open door shouting and pointing until someone comes to close it...it only took 7 months. LOL.  With the clothes...we just don't leave them where she can get them...we put it up high.  I mean that's just an irrestible temptation.  If I couldn't I would probably redirect her to her toy basket which she can then dump and then reload and then dump again and so on to her heart's content.

I really don't think it's realistic to expect a toddler to have the self restraint NOT to empty the clothes basket.  That sounds like a LOT of fun. 

I hope the doggy stays away...the poor kid sounds terrorized...that could be a good way to wind up with a kid who has nightmare issues really soon.

[Amatullah0]

Another vote for telling what TO do, and not what NOT to do. 

honestly, even when it doesn't get DS to do what I want him to do, it has kept ME sane.

but instead of having him help fold the clothes, I would have him put the clothes back in the basket(unless of course, he unfolded them....) but putting the clothes back in the basket is fun, helpful, and teaches him to do what you suggest.

I don't know what to do about the tv... DS hits the power button(and the outlet switch) on the TV here, usually to try to turn it on though(which doesn't work when the power is out). We also have a problem with him closing my laptop when we are using it. In the case of my laptop, I don't really want to teach him to open it(which he does anyways, then proceeds to pull the keys off of it), but with the TV, perhaps teaching him to turn it ON would be helpful? clap when its on, and get sad when it's off? I'm not sure if the getting sad thing actually helps, or if it would just make him think your expression is cool though.... so maybe, ignore him? or put the tv up higher(possibly dangerous)? or put some kind of guard over the button? or watch less tv? lol

[texmati]

Originally Posted by Amatullah0 

Another vote for telling what TO do, and not what NOT to do. 

honestly, even when it doesn't get DS to do what I want him to do, it has kept ME sane.

but instead of having him help fold the clothes, I would have him put the clothes back in the basket(unless of course, he unfolded them....) but putting the clothes back in the basket is fun, helpful, and teaches him to do what you suggest.

I don't know what to do about the tv... DS hits the power button(and the outlet switch) on the TV here, usually to try to turn it on though(which doesn't work when the power is out). We also have a problem with him closing my laptop when we are using it. In the case of my laptop, I don't really want to teach him to open it(which he does anyways, then proceeds to pull the keys off of it), but with the TV, perhaps teaching him to turn it ON would be helpful? clap when its on, and get sad when it's off? I'm not sure if the getting sad thing actually helps, or if it would just make him think your expression is cool though.... so maybe, ignore him? or put the tv up higher(possibly dangerous)? or put some kind of guard over the button? or watch less tv? lol

I just wanted to thank everyone for the responses... ITA that the dog has to go... so it's gone. It's in our hall closet with the rest of the clutter, and will probably not be excavated until we move!

It seems like the general consensus is that it's not possible.

We don't watch a lot of tv.... none during the day, but this is happening in the evening right before bedtime when *everyone* is exhausted. The clothes have gone into another room, and the only solution I see for the tv is more baby gates.

I'm still wondering at what point we can expect him to learn that some things are generally off limits. I know he's a young big brother, and I am proud of how well I'm keeping them both save, but I do expect that some things will come up.
 

[treeoflife3]

My kiddo is 25.5 months and she still doesn't always understand that some things are off limits, but mostly she's grown out of some of the things from 6 months to a year ago.  It isn't so important to pull everything out.  She only pushes the tv button if I ask her to.  She understands to leave books on shelves now.   Some of these things really are developmental and as they age, they get over it and leave it alone.  It'll take a long time to really be able to determine what is off limits even without being told and to have the impulse control to leave it alone but he IS learning right now about specific things to not get into even though his impulse control isn't so great.  As you keep redirecting and providing different options to feed the impulses, he'll stop going for the things you keep stopping him from playing with.

[sunnygir1]

My ds is 19 months too.  I think it is possible to teach them not to touch dangerous things, but it will not be 100%, and you have to keep on them.  For example, my ds loves to open the dishwasher and play with the knobs on the stove.  I simply do not allow him to open the dishwasher when it's running or touch the knobs on the stove.  He still does it occasionally, but I consistently say "oops, no stove" and physically remove him from the stove if he doesn't move away immediately.  It is a process.  He is learning, but I can't count on that to keep him safe -- that's my job.

[crunchy_mommy]

I agree that it is much easier to teach them what TO do than what NOT to do. So rather than telling him not to hit the TV buttons, you might hand him a spare remote and let him play with those buttons. Or make it his official job to turn the TV on & off, turn the volume up/down, etc. when asked. And rather than tell him not to dump out the laundry bins, you could ask him to take a pile of laundry to the bedroom. Obviously with that, he might still make a mess in the process, but he'll be learning how to do it neatly! One thing my DS loves to do is stuff the cloth wipes from the laundry into the wipes container. I think sometimes they see us doing things and want to participate but aren't quite sure HOW to do it. They think they're copying us but they are really annoying us! So as much as possible, DH & I try to show DS how to do things. This goes right down to things like how to plug in & unplug electronics, where to put his feet (on the floor, NOT on the table), how to operate the CD player, how to help us clean, etc. It takes a lot of patience & of course he still sometimes gets into trouble but it's gotten way better just by showing him how to properly do whatever he wants to do. And now that I wrote that, I'm quite certain he's going to dump out all the laundry and turn off the computer sometime in the next 3 minutes

[PoppyMama]

I know its a huge no no here...but the description of the doggy issue gave me a much needed laugh fest. Ours kids are about the same age and even though I do all the stuff you're supposed to do it doesn't change anything, I guess im just practicing for.when he becomes somewhat reasonable. Today I spent almost an hour holding him and the baby.while.they both.screamed and my toddler flailed.and.swung at us. He's a sweet boy but he just doesn't have the control yet. ...and this to shall pass. I have no judgement for your doggy.

[Just1More]

So, I think I'm in the major minority around here.  All of my kids have learned "don't touch" before a year old.  Yes, it's a tiring process, but it saves us all years of frustration and tension.  This only works if you believe in some sort of authority, and are willing to stick it out.  I just sit beside them and some prized item and say, "don't touch" and move their hand away over and over and over again.  When they reach for it, I move their hand and repeat it.  They sometimes cry out of frustration, but they are going to do that anyway after I've moved them for the bazillionith time in the ways the pp's suggest.  So, I just do that over and over and over again.  I don't distract or redirect...I want them to do it on their own.  And, you know what?  I have 4 kids and it works every time.  No, they don't "don't touch" 100%, but by just over a year old they are a good 80-90%, and it saves so many issues.  It isn't a battle or anything when they are babies.  I view it the same as teaching them to wash their hands when they go potty or whatever else is just a habit.  When mama says don't touch, you move your hand.  You have to be consistent, but I think it is SO much more gentle this way than physically restraining them or whatever for the next 8 years.

I have a 7 month old and two days ago she showed me that she does get it.  She saw my camera on the bed beside her and desperately wanted to grab it.  She stuck out one finger, and reached for it, but pulled her hand away as she got close.  Then she did it again, but still didn't touch.  I helped her out then because I didn't want to make it too hard for her.  I've never told her "don't touch" with my camera before, but we've "talked" about the remote and my laptop.  She could tell it was in the same genre of things and she knew she shouldn't touch it.

I also like to make a point of "if it's not yours, don't touch it."  My older kids repeat this phrase quite often, and I tell the little ones a lot.  I don't feel like teaching them a bunch of random touch and don't touch objects makes sense.  I always choose those objects carefully (like with the little ones) to fit in the categories of a.) danger and b.) respect for others and their property. 

Repeating what I said earlier, though, you do have to stay observant and be ready to be consistent.  I just wanted to say that I have found my kids to be pretty reliable pretty young, and that I really do think they can learn a negative at a very young age.

[treeoflife3]

My kid used to know 'don't touch' but it is a lot more exciting to just touch what she wants.  In my experience, it works for younger kids around a year old and eventually becomes more difficult to listen to as they get to be around 2 years old and starts working again somewhere after three.  It isn't like I don't say 'don't touch' or try to teach her to listen to me, but I'd have to teach her by inflicting physical pain at this point.  It is far easier to redirect her with a reminder to leave something alone than it is to just expect her to listen when I say don't touch.

[hakeber]

Originally Posted by treeoflife3 

My kid used to know 'don't touch' but it is a lot more exciting to just touch what she wants.  In my experience, it works for younger kids around a year old and eventually becomes more difficult to listen to as they get to be around 2 years old and starts working again somewhere after three.  It isn't like I don't say 'don't touch' or try to teach her to listen to me, but I'd have to teach her by inflicting physical pain at this point.  It is far easier to redirect her with a reminder to leave something alone than it is to just expect her to listen when I say don't touch.

I agree with this from MY experience (Awesome that it worked for you Just One More!).  Under the age of 1 they have both associated the sound "dontuch" with the action "move your hand." but once they understood the words don't touch it became much harder for them to follow the negative instruction, and we started all over again with "move your hand" sort of commands. 

[sunnygir1]

Originally Posted by Just1More 

You have to be consistent, but I think it is SO much more gentle this way than physically restraining them or whatever for the next 8 years.

Oh, they get reasonable long before 8 years old!  My dd is 4 and knows things are off limits.  She still sometimes does things that she knows she's not supposed to, but generally stops when I tell her not to touch something and respects most things she knows she can't have.  Toddlers just don't have that kind of impulse control, so it takes more vigilance, as you noted.

[Lazy Gardens]

Can you tape a guard over the TV on/off button?

ADDING: I have guards on the printer, scanner and paper shredder because my cats step on the power buttons and turn things on and off.

[crunchy_mommy]

Originally Posted by Lazy Gardens 

Can you tape a guard over the TV on/off button?

ADDING: I have guards on the printer, scanner and paper shredder because my cats step on the power buttons and turn things on and off.

LOL I taped a guard on our TV when DS was about a year old. All he did was rip it off (no matter what kind of tape I used!) so we gave up & got rid of the TV instead. So there's another option for ya -- just get rid of the TV.

[texmati]

yeah... we tried tape too. he just takes it off. We are thinking about moving the tv behind a gate, or moving it into our bedroom.

Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy 

Originally Posted by Lazy Gardens 

Can you tape a guard over the TV on/off button?

ADDING: I have guards on the printer, scanner and paper shredder because my cats step on the power buttons and turn things on and off.

LOL I taped a guard on our TV when DS was about a year old. All he did was rip it off (no matter what kind of tape I used!) so we gave up & got rid of the TV instead. So there's another option for ya -- just get rid of the TV.

[Just1More]

Hmmm.  I told you I know I'm in the minority, but I'm just going to pipe up one more time...then I'll be quiet, lol.

Sure, it comes up again...sort of.  I am annoyingly consistent (my friends all say "how did you see that?!?") and highly aware of what my kids are doing.  I will drop anything and everything not to miss an opportunity.  My kids know exactly what to expect from me.  So, we may have to do it again in a concentrated sort of way (the over and over thing), but only once or twice as they grow.  Really, seriously.  I pinkie promise.  :)

I know...sounds mean or something...but we are all really happy around here.  My kids giggle and laugh their way through the day, and we don't have to spend time arguing and cajoling all the time.  We can just be.

It's the same way I handle respectful communication.  I establish very, very early on that way of communicating, and I hold everybody to it.  I'm not kidding when I say that I truly have not had a problem with tantrums and the like.  Sometimes someone gets over-the-top emotional, but they are rarely out of their own control about it.  (Like, ds, who is almost 4, was awfully tired the other morning.  Dd got him a drink to go with his breakfast and she put it in the wrong spot.  He doesn't always have a specifc spot, but when he's tired, he has a way for everything and it's best not to cross him.  Anyway, so, he burst into tears.  Poor little guy couldn't help it.  BUT, he said, "(Dd), please put my drink here."  And she did, and he was cool.  Respect.  Respect. Respect.)

And I know it's not the whole time until 8.  Well, mostly it's not.  I have a friend who believes that children can't really obey until 4.  She teaches them things younger, but doesn't expect much.  Their 8 year old dismantles our house every time they come over...

Okay, I'm done. :)

[sapphire_chan]

When dd was younger we had tape over the lights for the TV button and our computer buttons. When she couldn't see the lights, she wasn't as interested in turning them on and off.

[Just1More]

Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy 

I agree that it is much easier to teach them what TO do than what NOT to do. 

 

So as much as possible, DH & I try to show DS how to do things. This goes right down to things like how to plug in & unplug electronics, where to put his feet (on the floor, NOT on the table), how to operate the CD player, how to help us clean, etc. It takes a lot of patience & of course he still sometimes gets into trouble but it's gotten way better just by showing him how to properly do whatever he wants to do.

John Holt has an article about this idea.  I love the way he respects children.  He talks about going into a kitchen and seeing that a little child has gotten the milk carton and spilled milk all over the floor.  He starts right in on her with all the no, no, no's and the stay back while I clean it up and see what a mess you made....etc, etc....

The little girl is ignoring him, and that, on top of the mess is starting to drive him batty.  And then it hits him.

For the first time in her tiny life, this little girl has gone to get her own glass of milk.  And all he can do is blither about the mess.

He stopped, congratulated her, and then suggested they go get a towel to clean up.  And she engaged and listened (quite happily!) to him. 

I really do believe that the more we can really truly include them, the less "issues" we'll have.