Son talks too much in class. DH will start spanking for this.

[La Limena]

My almost 7 y/o son talks to much in class.

The teacher has a system of sending behavior reports weekly. Green = good. Yellow = warning given. Orange = benched. Red = parent contacted regarding bad behavior.

At first we just expected green. And he got mostly green. But at conference and on report cards the teacher says he talks a lot. His kindergarten teacher said the same thing, that he talks a lot and is very social. Anyways, this behavior can distract other kids from their work. His misbehavior is that he talks when he is supposed to be silent.

At Christmas, we got a video game system (he wasn't allowed to watch TV before) and during the 2 week break he was allowed to play video games and watch some TV. The week he went back he got almost all red and orange. 

After that week he was no longer allowed to play the video games or watch TV anymore. We have taken away all toys but the legos and action figures. He isn't allowed to have play dates here or at his friend's homes. He goes to bed early. The teacher has moved him around to different seats in the class and says she tries to give positive reinforcement.

We started increasing praise for green and even giving rewards for a certain number of green. Last month his weeks were mostly green/yellow and one week all 5 days were green. We celebrated. 

This week was a disaster! He got a red on Friday.The other days were green. The teacher sent me an email that he was worse than a red on Friday. He will be benched at recess and lunch tomorrow. She also said that she was disappointed how he ran around on stage and was talking into the microphone on stage before their class play the night before (Thursday). She said she will have to send discipline reports to the principal if he doesn't stop talking. 

We have run out of gentle options to make sure he stops talking in class. My DH told him that he is going to start to be spanked when he doesn't behave as expected. We have been trying to avoid this as an option, but what is left to do besides corporal punishment? 

Can you think of any other things we can try to make him not talk while he is in class. 

I know he likes an audience, and he is often the leader of his play groups at school, and he is well liked. He goes to religious education weekly and that teacher is always rewarding his good behavior. He goes to dance class and is doing well, just promoted to the next level. He is in cub scouts and is well liked. But he is too chatty in school.

What do I do?

[Sharlla]

well im just going to tell you that my stepfather spanked me when I got bad reports from school.  it was extremely stressful for me and when I got in trouble at school i would cry the rest of the day in anticipation of being spanked.  i ultimately got held back a year because I was deemed not emotionally ready to advance to the 3rd grade and it had a negative effect on my school work

[robinia]

Hi La Limena, I'd really like to encourage you and your husband to look at this problem from some other angles and see if you can approach this from a problem-solving perspective rather than a discipline or punishment perspective.

First of all, he's 6.  They're crazy at 6!   Especially as no doubt school is starting to get much more formal with fewer outlets for chatting.  Could you do some reading around on age appropriate expectations for 6?

Secondly, you have already taken some very significant steps - removal of privileges, playdates (which could be removing an outlet for chatting), and toys, and early bedtime (which could be removing time for getting out excess energy).  These would be very big currency items for my 6 year old.  If these significant steps aren't helping him to remember school rules when he's away from you at school, then I doubt whether other discipline measures would either.

Thirdly, why does the teacher need so much involvement from you to manage this school issue?  Is the teacher not very experienced with 6 year olds, perhaps?  You say he gets good reports from other lessons and activities.  I'm a big believer in "what happens at school stays at school", with heartfelt parental verbal reminders about the rules, but not more punishment at home.  If I had an otherwise generally well-behaved child, whose teacher needed my backup daily, then I would be asking for a meeting with the teacher and the year co-ordinator to ask how they suggest resolving this problem.

The only thing that you have mentioned that would really push my buttons is the playing around on the stage.  Still in that case a firm, verbal parental reminder of your expectations following appropriate action from the teacher would be my course of action.

Please don't smack your child.  All these years later I am still frightened and resentful towards my father and don't like having my children in the room with him.  Think of the future and I am sure that is not what you want for your charming, chatty boy.  Think about how proud you will be in high school when he is head of debating or star of the play, and has warm memories of how you helped him through a hard period of adjusting to school expectations.

[LynnS6]

A couple of thoughts:

First, I'd gently point out that the consequences your son has been undergoing are unrelated to the offense of talking too much at school. Many of the consequences have been pure punishment. So, I don't know if much of what you've tried really counts as 'gentle' discipline because it's focused on punishment. As such he's probably not learning much from it, and so I don't know if you've exhausted the gentle discipline options.

How is he supposed to learn not to talk in school by you taking away all his toys? (I will say that taking away the video games/TV could be seen as reasonable since the behavior seemed to be related to him starting to play video games.) Taking away playdates? No wonder his talking has increased - he has to get this social energy out! The same argument goes for spanking -- how is being spanked going to teach him the skills he needs? It's going to teach him to fear his dad.

I'm also concerned that since they're using the 'stoplight' system, once he's gotten a red card for the day, what incentive does he have to behave? I would say that especially if he knows he's going to get spanked and/or punished when he gets home, he might be spurred to new heights of misbehavior. I'd also say that it's awfully hard to control his behavior at school by what you do at home. Certainly you should work with the school, but the bottom line is that the behavior happens there, and the solution needs to happen there too. (As an aside, I hate the stoplight system for this very reason.)

Second, I think it's time to request a meeting with the school counselor and the teacher. Because this is a school problem, you need to know more about school and what solutions school can help provide. You need to know what's going on in the classroom. Is he talking because he's bored? Has he become the class clown and needs another way to get (positive) attention from other students? Is he having trouble learning and so is talking as a way to avoid work? Does this teacher just have not so great classroom management? He might need a teacher who's more on top of things so that she catches him the first time. He might need to be at a desk by himself. He might benefit from a fidgit toy or something to keep his hands busy when his mouth shouldn't be moving. I guess my point is that the traditional methods have not worked. Instead of trying to do more of the same (with probably the same results), it's time to try to figure out the cause and to try to get creative with solutions. Rewards sort of worked, and that might be something you can build on. If he's motivated by rewards, then rewards for very small increments -- a whole week, for example, is too much to ask. Maybe even a whole day. Can they work with him for 30 minutes when it's crucial that he's quiet and work from there?

Finally, I'd look at diet and sleep. Is he getting enough sleep? Is he sensitive to dairy/gluten/dyes? Have you tried eliminating things from his diet to see if there's a change in behavior? What was different the one week where he did well all week?

I'd work from the assumption that kids want to do well and they do well if they can. What's preventing him from doing well? That's what needs to be addressed. Then, what skills does he need to be taught so he can do well?

[robinia]

Just another thought.  You said that last month his weeks were almost all acceptable or perfect.  This week, four perfect days, one poor day. Can you recast this to yourself?  As in "Wow, kid, you did great Mon-Thurs.  Can you try harder to keep it up for the whole week next week?"  I appreciate that the email from the teacher would have been distressing, but are you in fact seeing good/improving behaviour with lapses, rather than a pattern of bad behaviour?

[treeoflife3]

I agree that it actually sounds like he has shown great improvement.  I also agree that some of the punishments you have doled out range from doing nothing for school behavior to adding to school misbehavior.  I think it is more important to find out WHY he is talking so much and so unfocused in school than to just simply try and stop it.  I know for me, I got the same reports all the time too and although I eventually learned to stay quiet in school, many other things went poorly.  Looking back, the issue was probably ADD.  I'm not saying that is your child's issue as there are all sorts of answers that are possible, but it would have benefited me had people try to find out the why rather than just trying to stop it.

[PoppyMama]

Unless its really awful behavior that calls character into question I don't bring school punishments home. Would you expect him to be kept in at recess if he didn't pick up his toys at home? Let them deal with school issues at school.

It could be that your son os one of those kids who will just explode if they can't talk all the time and the way schools.have turned to a more book work oriented curriculum isn't helping him. I also think that many kids just aren't able restrain themselves enough for schooling at 5 and should be starting kindy at 6. I plan on holding my younger sons until six. I hope you, your dh and the teacher can be a bit more patient and show him some positive attention. Id also get him burning off more.steam and talking.more out of school so that he does have an outlet.

[intentionalmama]

I like a lot of what the other posters have written. When I read your post, I felt sad for your child.  I have a seven year old, and we homeschool in a a fairly unschooly way.  What I see with my son and the other kids he hangs out with is that kids are quirky in so many different ways.   And these traits can be quite lovely.  The school system seems to have a hard time with children that don't conform the way they want.  And so, I feel that a lot of children get their quirkiness and what makes them unique and who they are squished right out of them. Now, I understand that children will need to learn how to be in certain situations; and I also believe that this is a learning process that can take time.  One of the reasons I homeschooled my child was that I didnt' want him to loose his love of learning.  As I found so often school can be boring and many kids loose that love they once had when they were younger of discovering things.   Your son sounds like someone who has lots of energy, is social, and passionate.  The class he is in may not be the best fit for him. Maybe as some people have said he is bored, or perhaps  he would shine if he could be doing things he loved; and with people who could appreciate his enthusiasm. Then perhaps it would naturally channel itself in a more acceptable way.  Maybe, he would thrive more taking musical theatre or some type of drama or music, or more interactive type programmes.  

[syn_ack89]

I WAS the child who talked all the time. My mom talked about getting all A's and U's (unsatisfactory behavior) on my report card. I was bored and the teacher did not handle it well.

However, the next year I "conformed". The next year I was in G&T and too busy to be trouble...

[HeliMom]

What do you hope to accomplish by spanking? Honestly.  Are you looking for your son to avoid talking in class at all costs out of fear?  Or do you want him to learn to  be respectful of his teacher's and fellow classmates needs?  If it is the latter write down exactly how  spanking,  teaches him how to be respectful. I suggest this because there is absolutely nothing that spanking him will teach him about respecting other peoples needs.

What I'd assume you want for you son is for him to recognize that the teacher has a job to do, that there are other students who really want to learn without being distracted by side conversations, and that when he talks with his friends during class the causes distress for others.  I think you want to have a son who takes other people into account when he acts, and who is remorseful for causing trouble for others. Spanking doesn't address any of this, all it does is make the problem about him, and what could happen to him. Sure you can talk about things in addition to spanking, but if you are already talking it out and working on getting him to think about others, why exactly are you spanking in addition to that?

The other posters have pointed out that the punishments you have tried are not related to the problem either, and this I agree with.  Gentle discipline is  about connecting the why's to the problem and addressing them. Do you know why your son is talking in class? What does he think is the reason he talks more or is more disruptive in this teacher's class than other classes? Does this teacher need more quiet than he is used to in other classes? If yes, maybe he can come up with a way to help the teacher, by talking less in this particular class.  Is he more disruptive because of the particular time the class occurs at ( end of school, first thing in the morning, right after gym or lunch?)  Is this the first time he sees certain friends? Maybe he's bored? Or overwhelmed? There are plenty of reasons that a child would talk during a class. Finding out the why will help your family address the real issue and working with your son with help him develop problem solving skills. Putting the focus on how his behavior affects others, and moving away from how his behavior affects him, will help your son to become a better person. 

[MissLotus]

You have taken away nearly all his toys and all social interaction outside of school (playdates).  Doing this will not make his need to be extroverted go away - it will make it WORSE!  Because now home, too, is a place where he can't be free.  Only at home he's threatened with being hit if he doesn't comply, so actually home is worse than school.

I agree there should be consequences, but taking away all of a lively child's outlets is not wise and will not accomplish what you hope for.  I know a mother who does this and her son is so pent up, that school is the "safest" place to release, and so he acts out there.  I feel really sorry for the kid; even my own son noticed how backwards it is and noted that the boy has "no place to be a kid"!

What does the teacher do, besides the color system?  Does she take away recess when it gets to a certain point, or send the kids to the principal, or take away in-class privileges?  Because if he's already being punished at school, that's plenty.  And if the teacher doesn't give consequences, then I'd say she's a poor manager.  Some are.  All I know is, hitting your child will only teach him that bigger people can hurt smaller people; it won't help him.

[sapphire_chan]

I'd get him MORE time with friends. Get him into an afterschool activity--something with lots of running and jumping and shouting.

For heaven's sake, if your dh wants to exercise his arm, how about just taking his kid out and playing catch together?

(Grrrr, I want to scream at your dh, but I understand that people get locked into cycles where they keep pushing farther and farther in the wrong direction because they can't see that it is failing horribly.)

Off-topic: I also HATE the stoplight system with a passion because it is all or nothing. If it was used as a way to let the student monitor and adjust their behavior through the day, I could see it being a useful tool, but as the system is generally done, there is ZERO positive feedback. I think that the way it should work is that kids should get yellow and red cards more readily--as soon as they do something that disrupts the class or whatever--and then get green cards again within seconds of getting back in control. THAT would help kids with self-monitoring for school appropriate behaviors.  (Of course, it'd be far far better if the teacher could just quietly tell the student what the appropriate behavior is and then thank them for doing it. (and even better if schools were set up so that if, for instance, a kid wanted to chat, they could be set to work in a group, and a kid who needed to run could just go to the outside class, etc etc))

[scottishmommy]

OP, I would get your kid into as many free form social situations as possible. Try to schedule playdates every day. Encourage him to play with action figures, and possibly puppets etc. Anything that gets him talking and interacting at home. Maybe you could also look into some young acting classes, preferably with an emphasis on improve. It sounds like he just wants to be the center of attention. I would foster that if I were you and see if he has a talent for stage craft. We tend to view chatty, dramatic children as nuisances, but those qualities can be very good in adults. The world needs movie stars too:-)

[meemee]

from what you have posted it seems to me that the talking is a SYMPTOM of the real problem. it is NOT the real problem at all. 

i think there is something else going on. and talking is a social diversion. 

i second talking to the school and counsellors.

your child needs your help and understanding.

and drastically changing his life has done nothing to improve it. 

its seems like your son cant help his behaviour. it is beyond just a 7 year old kid thing. 

there is something more up. you need to dig deeper. once you get to the actual problem, the talking will disappear by itself. 

i really question the teacher too. we have never had that situation in our school. 

[MisaGoat]

My 2 cents (some of which has already been said):

1) He needs more time to talk and play. Take him to the playground where he can be loud, have play dates where he can talk for hours etc. Explain to him why he should be quiet/respectful of others needs in school and give him the opportunity to balance the quiet/loud time. 

2) Maybe the problem over the break was a change in routine rather than video games. I think most children have more trouble right after a break going back to school and getting back into a routine. 

Good luck and talk to your son, give him the opportunity to come up with solutions and explain situations from his perspective. Model how his actions may seem to others. This is a process, not all or nothing. 

[Owen'nZoe]

I have to agree with the PP who said you should neither be punishing nor rewarding your child for behavior at school. What happens in school is handled in school. You should instead be working with the teacher to make sure that her responses are consistent and effective, and making it clear to your child that you support his teacher and the consequences she is handing out.

Our school also uses a stoplight system with rewards. I am not a fan of it, either. As an educator I know likes to point out, stoplight systems teach children that they can misbehave 2 times before they receive a single true negative consequence. That said, it is the system most schools seem to be using, and there are things the teacher can do to make it more effective. You didn't mention any consequences at school. What happens when he gets a yellow? A red? Does he lose a privilege? Could you work with her to instate a single consequence that happens immediately when he gets moved to yellow?

And what about giving him something to do when he feels the urge to speak out in class? I've heard of teachers sticking a strip of velcro under a child's desk, and training them that when they get the urge to speak out in class, they should run their fingers over the velcro instead. Maybe you could think up something else to help redirect his energy.

Best of luck!

[MSWmama]

I think you've gotten a lot of great advice on this thread - particularly the comments on the limitations of the stoplight system, and also the idea that school and home behaviors don't necessarily have to be completely linked (i.e., letting the natural consequences at school occur, but not overdoing the "extra" punishments at home). I just have a few things to add: 

1) Have you tried asking your son why he's talking so much and what might help him remember to remain quiet? I know he's young, but 6-year-olds can be surprisingly insightful, and he might come up with something that none of us have thought of! I'd just be careful to make it a casual, let's-solve-this-together kind of conversation so that he doesn't feel like he's being set up for more punishments.

2) If you're in the U.S., I'm betting that the school year is almost over anyway. I wonder if you and DH might be willing to "table" this issue (let him get punished at school, certainly talk to him about appropriate behavior, but not dole out additional consequences at home) until next school year. With those extra few months to mature, not to mention a new teacher and new peer group configuration, he just might grow out of this behavior before the fall. 

3) Maybe you could "practice" being quiet at home. Turn it into a game. During dinner, you can each go around and talk about your day for a certain amount of time, and the other family members have to listen quietly. Or, while playing with Legos, see if the two of you can build a house without using words. Make it fun and lighthearted! He might just need some extra practice suppressing that urge to speak when it happens. 

Good luck to you! I really hope that you and DH are able to discuss this issue together and recommit yourselves to gentle discipline - I agree with previous posters that spanking is not going to solve the problem here, and may even make it worse. I was also a big talker at school, and I just had to outgrow the behavior. Now I have a job that requires me to interact with many different people all day long and I love it! 

[La Limena]

Thank you so much for your replies. It is really helpful for me to get other perspectives on this issue. I was feeling so upset about that email from the teacher, and so confused because I thought my son was doing better. I replied to her email and she got back to me that she is going to try some more positive things in the classroom with my son. She also reiterated that he was doing very well academically and is loved by his classmates. He is not defiant or obnoxious, he really just likes to talk.

I asked my son why he talks so much and he basically said he just has a lot of things to say. 

I know that we have to work on his understanding that it is important to respect his classmates work time and his teacher's instruction time. 

I really wasn't sure how involved I was supposed to be getting in the school related discipline, because to me it just wasn't feeling right that hours later after the infraction, I was supposed to do something about a situation that I didn't even witness. Some days I would ask my son what he was talking about when he got in trouble, and sometimes he couldn't even remember. How on earth was I supposed to guide or redirect him when he didn't even recall what he did wrong? I would expect that the teacher at that moment would be best suited to discipline him.

I felt somewhat like my son is an oval peg and the school has round holes that they need him to fit into. And I was supposed to help scrape off the excess oval-ness. But to be quite honest, I like him oval. He is interesting and fun to talk to. And when we do homework together, he comes across interesting things, his commentary begins. At home I don't discourage him from it, but I think that maybe that is what is happening at school. For example, he did a report on giant squid. When he read how the eyes can be 13 inches across, he wanted to get a ruler and large paper and draw a 13 inch eye and then compare it to dinner plates and then show it to DH and his little brother. So I helped him do it, but if he had been at school, he would have had to keep his excitement to himself. It is frustrating.

If we do anything (because I might just let his teacher handle it and leave the school issues at school as some suggested) we may try adding some things back. Again, being quite honest, I like not having the TV and video games and Disney/PBS kids websites on. We (DH and I) don't watch TV very often either. And I think taking extraneous toys away didn't faze my son, because basically all he likes are the Legos and the action figures, which we would not take away. And of course he has his costumes, and art supplies, and bike, and given a choice he would be outside playing in the backyard anyways with his little brother and the dogs. My DH is a SAHD so they are outside doing stuff anyways.

We will talk some more, my DH is against spanking too, but the thought was this. When my DH and my brother in law were boys, if they messed around or misbehaved, their dad would spank them. According to my DH it only took a few times for them to decide to stay on the straight and narrow rather than get busted by their dad again. And my mom would spank my brother and I if we did something bad, and I vividly recall running away from her chasing me with a belt. It only took one or two instances of that for me to be the model child lest I get busted again. So we thought, maybe our parents were right and that we were being too touchy-feely. But I feel that my son's personality is such that spanking would just hurt his feelings rather than get him to toe the line. I think we will revise the plan. Sorry if I am misunderstanding the concept of gentle discipline, I am trying to get it and put it to good use. Since DH and my parents come from the old country, where spanking is the norm for the culture, the fact that we were avoiding this measure seemed to me like gentle discipline.

The reason my son takes dance (rather than more "manly" type activities) is that he does have a strong need for the spotlight, and he gets to perform and loves performing. In my area the theater options aren't available until he is at least 8 years old. 

But one thing I am really thinking about thanks to some of your posts, is the play situation.

He goes to a magnet school. His regular school is absolutely excellent, and the magnet is also absolutely excellent (in terms of scores and rankings and Blue Ribbon / Distinguished School stuff). But since he is in the magnet which draws from 3 different cities, his school friends don't necessarily live near by so the only way they will have a chance to play is if we can make play dates. He doesn't play with the kids in our immediate neighborhood. I am not sure why, we will need to talk more about why that is. My DH and I both, as kids, would play with whoever lived on the block, older, younger, didn't matter. Maybe he feels weird because he goes to a different school. I have to revisit the issue. But maybe it was a mistake to put him in the magnet school and he'd be happier in the neighborhood school. Ay. 

Thanks for listening and for your comments and ideas. It gives me a lot to think about. 

[treeoflife3]

hmm, if he just simply has a lot to say and struggles with keeping it in til a more appropriate time, would writing things down work?  Assuming he has time to keep a journal, it might help him to write things down and then have a chance to read them out loud at an appropriate time later.  Of course, this can't be done if it gets in the way of him doing his work.

[sunnygir1]

Originally Posted by meemee 

from what you have posted it seems to me that the talking is a SYMPTOM of the real problem. it is NOT the real problem at all. 

i think there is something else going on. and talking is a social diversion. 

i second talking to the school and counsellors.

your child needs your help and understanding.

and drastically changing his life has done nothing to improve it. 

its seems like your son cant help his behaviour. it is beyond just a 7 year old kid thing. 

there is something more up. you need to dig deeper. once you get to the actual problem, the talking will disappear by itself. 

i really question the teacher too. we have never had that situation in our school. 

I disagree that there is a deeper problem.  At least from what I've read, I don't hear any red flags from the mom about there being something wrong with her son.  Talking out of turn in a 6yo seems perfectly normal to me.  Of course, he needs to learn to curb it, but it is still totally age-appropriate behavior.  Some kids just need more help with sitting still and being quiet in school.  I think that schools are expecting that of kids at a younger age, and I'm not sure how reasonable that is -- especially for some children.

I have a 4yo who talks constantly.  Although it annoys me, especially when I am trying to talk on the phone, read or write, or put her baby brother to sleep, I wouldn't want her talking to "disappear by itself".  To me, THAT would be the signal that something was wrong.