May 2011 Whatever Ladies Graduates

[MarineWife]

Member List:

lyeterae ~ Baby boy born February 2011
annie ~ Baby girl born April 7, 2011
Barefootscientist ~ Baby boy born May 30, 2011

AnnieA ~ 7/21
MarineWife ~ 7/30
MovingMomma ~ 8/9
Baby_Cakes ~ 8/16
akind1 ~ 9/28
jeninejessica ~ 12/1
Kindermama ~ 1/6

Link to old thread: http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1305135/the-whatever-ladies-graduate
Edited by MarineWife - 5/30/11 at 10:45am

[Baby_Cakes]

Subbing!!!  Thanks MW!!

[MovingMomma]

  I've been poking my baby, too.  And wiggling her little parts around.    I don't think there's any harm in it unless we're actually trying to move them (like an external version).  LOL!  I think she's more posterior now...not completely, but instead of getting kicks in the upper right quadrant they are now center to upper left, plus quite a bit in the lower left that I'm not sure if they are kicks or punches.  I'm a bit concerned about her being breech, even.  I've been doing a lot more hands and knees, pelvic tilts, etc., esp. when she's active, and I finally got my birth ball blown up to sit on at the computer.  It's not big enough, though, so I'm thinking about getting a new one.  It's a 55 inch & I've seen different places say that size is good for up to 5'2" or 5'3".  I'm 5'2", but I must have a bit longer legs than the average 5'2" woman.    I do have it overinflated now to get enough height, but I guess that could make it more likely to pop.  The best part about switching from my desk chair to the birth ball is my feet aren't falling asleep when I sit anymore.  

[BarefootScientist]

I think that feeling, poking, prodding the baby is perfectly safe. They ARE pretty well cushioned in there after all. I'm constantly poking around at mine but I'm terrible at telling what is what. I know the baby is head-down and I can usually tell which side the back is on, but other than that I don't know. Sometimes there is something poking out and I don't know if it is a foot, hand, elbow or what!

[AnnieA]

Thanks for the new thread MW! Can you do me a favor when you get a moment? My due date is 7/21 not 7/2 although with the way things are going, she could be here by 7/2.

MW: I like the changing table from Target best. Mostly because I like the way it looks. You could probably resell it pretty easily too when you are done with it.

Baby_Cakes: That's so awesome that you get to be a SAHM! I'm really starting to have a hard time with the fact that I'm going to have to leave Ava at 7 weeks PP. I'd love to be able to stay home for the first year at least.

JJ: GRRRR! That's so frustrating that you are having such a hard time with finding a midwife or an OB! I hope something opens up but not because someone has lost their baby. Maybe someone is moving or has decided that they want OB care rather than a midwife.

AFM: To answer the "poking" question, yes, I poke Ava a lot in the evenings. That's when she really gets going in my belly so I'll lay in bed and poke her and she will kick me back. It's super fun but DH is always saying "Leave that baby alone!" and then saying to my belly "Ava, tell Mommy to stop messing with you!". Oh and for you ladies that are hearing the heartbeat with the regular stethescope, how are you finding it? Whenever I've tried, I mostly pick up the sounds in my intestinal tract rather than anything that sounds like the baby!

I did some research over the weekend regarding my low PAPP-A level and Ava's growth. I decided that I didn't want to just wait until my next appointment to discuss this with my doctor so I called his office this morning to schedule something and they had not received the results yet from the scan on Friday. So I have to call back this afternoon after my OB has taken a look at it. I'd like to know if there is anything that I can do to improve her blood flow, even if it means modified bedrest. Also, if she is delivered at 34 weeks or sooner, I have to switch hospitals which means switching OBs and I would like to avoid that if possible.

[MarineWife]

Oh, thank goodness I'm not the only one messing with my baby. I'm obsessed. I do it mostly at night, too, Annie, because that's when this one gets to really moving around. I lay in bed and watch my belly dance and then try to figure out what position he is in. The only reason I can maybe tell body parts is because I asked my MW at my last prenatal. She can't tell a foot from a knee or hand, either, though. At least I know that I was right that it was an appendage. I can tell baby's back when he's on one side or the other because it's long and hard. I can't really feel his head lower down in my belly so I have to take my MW's word on that.

Last night, he was head down with his back running along my right side. This morning when I got up he had switched sides so that his back was running along my left side. That's new because he's almost always been on my right side. I see large movements and bulges and feel very definite somethings in between my belly button and my ridcage and little fluttery movements down low near my pubic bone that makes me confident he is mostly head down. He does still turn transverse sometimes, though.

I got involved in a What Position Is My Baby In? thread on my DDC and it's kind of funny. Women came on there posting that baby was head down at 22 or 24w and would stay there or were worried that baby was breech at their 20w u/s. I don't get it. There was still so much time for baby to move around. I've asked several times how anyone can be confident that baby will stay head down after 24w and got no response. I googled it a little and it doesn't seem to be an issue until after 36w so I don't get why people are worried about baby being breech in the 2nd trimester.

Shannon ~ What is posterior? I can never keep posterior and anterior (or whatever the opposite is) straight. I think in my brain the names should mean the opposite.

Annie ~ What is a PAPP-A level and how does that cause blood flow restriction? I've never heard of that before. Is that essentially the same as IUGR?

You made me laugh with your dh's comment about leaving Ava alone. I can so hear my dh saying that to me. It's so amazing, though, when you think about having this whole other person moving around inside your body. Last night this little guy was going crazy. My belly was rippling and bulging and jumping like crazy. It was so fun to watch! My ds2 is sometimes interested in feeling baby move but neither ds1 nor ds3 are. I think ds3 just doesn't have the patience/attention span to wait for him to move. It never fails that baby will be squirming around in there like crazy until I tell someone to look or put their hand on my belly. Then he stops.

DS2 is more interested in my pregnancy in general. He was asking me the other day when the baby would be opening his eyes. He gets this stuff from reading my weekly Babycenter pregnancy emails. I couldn't remember but he said he thought it was 28w. I got my 27w email, which said baby would be opening and closing his eyes. I told ds that but didn't mention that I was 27w. So, he looks at me and says, "Hm...you are 27w now, right? Interesting." That from a 7yo.

[akind1]

Annie, fx for good results so that baby Ava can cook as long as possible, and you can stay with your OB!

I see no harm in poking the baby, really. They are well cushioned, and generally we aren't trying to move them with our hands or otherwise force things.

As for the stethoscope, it may be the sort of stethoscope you are using. I have one similiar to this, but not heart shaped. It is still early yet, so when I do find the heartbeat, it is faint. it also helps to be in an area that is otherwise completely quiet so I can focus. It really does sound like a horse galloping. sometimes I hear taps and bumps too, which might be movement. I can usually rule out bowel sounds, as I am placing the stethoscope right on my uterus, and most of the bowels are moved up or to the side to accomodate the baby. I also press down firmly. any slower swishy sounds are either my own heartbeat, or echoes of bowel sounds.

MW: I like the 2nd one . . .it is more like furniture, but I am a sucker for a sale, so if the Target one is more in line with your budget, do that instead.

Carrie, yay on the SAHM front! wish I could also join you! There is no way DH will make enough money once he is out of school - for massage therapy - to support us. But it is something he can easily do in my off hours, so we can keep the kiddo(s) out of day care. He will graduate 9/2 I think.

[Baby_Cakes]

Posterior is a baby who is facing up or out, rather than facing your back.  I used to get them mixed up all the time.  DD was posterior and rotated late in labor, I think I was stuck at 7 or 8 cms and had to lay on my side, blowing thru ctx for like an hour (OMG the most painful thing I ever did) and then all of a sudden I felt a pop and a turn/flip and she was anterior.  Then I was complete in like a minute and pushing!

I was talking to DH last night about how I'm not really looking fwd to labor, and said that I was really just eager to get to pushing.  That I like pushing.  That if I can just have a little bit of a shorter labor it would be nice, but that I really just can't wait to be pushing this baby out.  And he was like, "That's so weird. I would think it would be the opposite.  Just coming from my perspective, it seems like pushing is the tricky part and the labor is the easy part."  What a thing for a man to say, huh?  I told him that's just not how it feels.  Labor is intense and crazy and you have to deal with each ctx and hope to make it through each one -- but pushing!  Pushing is productive!  Pushing actually gives you your baby!!  LOL!!

MW - that is adorable about your DS.  How fun that he's so interested and involved. 

[AnnieA]

Originally Posted by MarineWife 


Annie ~ What is a PAPP-A level and how does that cause blood flow restriction? I've never heard of that before. Is that essentially the same as IUGR?

You made me laugh with your dh's comment about leaving Ava alone. I can so hear my dh saying that to me. It's so amazing, though, when you think about having this whole other person moving around inside your body. Last night this little guy was going crazy. My belly was rippling and bulging and jumping like crazy. It was so fun to watch! My ds2 is sometimes interested in feeling baby move but neither ds1 nor ds3 are. I think ds3 just doesn't have the patience/attention span to wait for him to move. It never fails that baby will be squirming around in there like crazy until I tell someone to look or put their hand on my belly. Then he stops.
 

It stands for Pregnancy Associated Plasma Protein-A. Basically, it's a protein that our placentas release. If the level is low, then it can cause IUGR, pre-eclampsia and/or small gestational age. I'm not sure exactly what it means but here's what I found:"Early placental cells invade maternal spiral arteries transforming them from small muscular arterioles to large vessels of low resistance. In pregnancies destined for pre-eclampsia and IUGR, the cytotrophoblasts infiltrate the decidual portion of the spiral arteries not the myometrial portion. The vessels remain narrow leading to hypoperfusion. PAPP-A is a protease for IGFBP-4. IGF binding proteins inhibit the action of IGFs, which play a key role in regulating fetal growth and trophoblastic invasion of the decidua." So I guess what that means is if the protein level is low, then there is less inhibition of the IGFs which allow the cytotrophoblasts to go to the wrong place. Did I interpret that right?  Early placental cells invade maternal spiral arteries transforming them from small muscular arterioles to large vessels of low resistance. 

[MarineWife]

Thanks, Carrie. That explains why I can't ever keep those straight. Posterior is back so I think of the baby facing the back when I guess what it actually means is that the baby's body is in the back and it is facing front. I think mine is sideways. Like I've said, I can usually feel his back along my right side. That would mean he'd be facing to the left, right?

Annie ~ I don't know if I could make sense of that. I'll have to read it several times. I did get that if you don't have enough of those proteins, your arteries won't expand enough to accommodate the needs of the growing baby. Does that sound right?

PAPP-A is an IGF binding protein, right? So, if you don't have enough PAPP-A, then the activity of that particular IGF protein is not inhibited enough to allow for the placental cells (cytotrophoblasts?) to enter the correct area of the maternal arteries so that they will enlarge to vessels. This, in turn, inhibits blood flow and, therefore, oxygen and other nutrients to the baby.

As for the stethoscope, I haven't used one this time but I did have a fetascope when I was pg with ds3. I never had an easy time hearing his heartbeat with it. It was hit or miss even really late in pregnancy. When I did find it, it was very, very faint so I had to be in a completely quiet place. I think a lot depends on how baby and placenta are positioned.

Carrie ~ I totally get what you are saying about labor. When you are in the middle of labor before pushing you have no idea when it will end. You just have to get through each contraction knowing that another is coming soon. When you finally get to pushing, even if it's hard and still hurts, you feel like you are accomplishing something. You know the end is near, relatively speaking. It's the not knowing of stage 2 labor (that's the right one, right?) that is so hard.

[BarefootScientist]

Annie, I hope things work out for you.

AFM, ack! Now I'm GBS positive! Anyone have advice or experience with this? I made another appointment with my GP in case I need to go to the hospital and need her to deliver, since I have only seen her twice. I don't know whether to give up on my homebirth or to still try for it if I make it to 37 weeks. If I transfer care from my HB midwife before 37 weeks I get most of the money refunded, which I paid out of pocket. But I also lose my homebirth. But she can't do antibiotics at home, and I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with the alternative. Now there is a lot more stuff to think about - I will have to actually talk to my GP about pushing in different positions, etc. when before she was mostly a doc for my kids, lol. But she did come recommended as a back-up doctor for homebirth so she should be very natural-birth friendly. One would think.

Ugh. I need a nap.

[jeninejessica]

Wow, thread is crazy today. 

BFS: That sucks. That's one of the things DH and I have talked about, and I have pre-warned him that we'll need to talk about it later on, probably quite a bit. I lean towards skipping the antibiotics unless you have risk factors, prior to or during labor. What always stuck in my head is the idea that the antibiotics don't necessarily mean baby won't get it, but in general, babies who get the antibiotics and still contract gbs, get a worse case of it. Also the idea that testing positive right now has no bearing on whether you will be positive at birth. Would she be willing to do another culture closer to the birth if you make it another few weeks? If you do want the antibiotics, some practices now are able to give an IM injection. Nobody really seems to talk about it in the medical world, but I've seen it suggested here on MDC several times. It's hard, there's so much to think about with GBS. 

For posterior-- I always think that posterior hurts your posterior-- because the baby's head and spine are essentially dragging down your spine as youre progressing. MW it sounds like your babe is in ROA-- meaning the right side of his head (occiput) is facing anterior. I don't have my book with me, but that sounds right. I was born LOA if I remember correctly, so facing the other direction. 

I haven't attempted to palpate even though I'm sure I could probably feel my uterus now if I tried... I'm just not sure what to look for. But-- I have a doppler at home, and ever since the Dr said I should come in at about 10 weeks and she's try to find the HB, now I've wanted to pull it out. I'm forcing myself not to. 

[AnnieA]

Originally Posted by BarefootScientist 

Annie, I hope things work out for you.

AFM, ack! Now I'm GBS positive! Anyone have advice or experience with this? I made another appointment with my GP in case I need to go to the hospital and need her to deliver, since I have only seen her twice. I don't know whether to give up on my homebirth or to still try for it if I make it to 37 weeks. If I transfer care from my HB midwife before 37 weeks I get most of the money refunded, which I paid out of pocket. But I also lose my homebirth. But she can't do antibiotics at home, and I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with the alternative. Now there is a lot more stuff to think about - I will have to actually talk to my GP about pushing in different positions, etc. when before she was mostly a doc for my kids, lol. But she did come recommended as a back-up doctor for homebirth so she should be very natural-birth friendly. One would think.

Ugh. I need a nap.

Can you do garlic suppositories and probiotics and retest in a week or so?

[akind1]

I was going to suggest garlic too; seems several mamas on MDC have had good results with that. I think even so they can do some sort of wash in a peribottle prior to the birth (while you are in labor) that can help also (can't recall what it is though).

The whole paying out of pocket for a midwife and then maybe needing to go to the hospital, part of which would also be out of pocket, it one of the things that turns DH off from homebirth. In the event of a transfer, you have to pay both. If we were swimming in money, which we are not, he probably wouldn't care.

The thread is hopping today! Wish I could find the same energy to clean my house . . .

[MarineWife]

I think the wash is called Hibiclens but I could be wrong. You can try that. Also using garlic as suppositories and oral capsules, grapefruit seed extract capsules, echinacea and maybe one other thing that isn't coming to mind right now might help. One big question is how/where were you tested? Were you tested only from the vaginal area or did they test a sample from your anal area as well? A lot of times women will test + from the anal area but not from the vaginal area. Since baby is not coming out of your anus, I don't really understand why that's important. I have always been GBS+ in the past. I learned about the anal testing while I was pg with ds3 and refused it. When only tested vaginally I was negative. There's also the whole question, like JJ touched on, about how dangerous being GBS+ is or how helpful preventive treatment really is.

[AnnieA]

Originally Posted by akind1 

I was going to suggest garlic too; seems several mamas on MDC have had good results with that. I think even so they can do some sort of wash in a peribottle prior to the birth (while you are in labor) that can help also (can't recall what it is though).

The whole paying out of pocket for a midwife and then maybe needing to go to the hospital, part of which would also be out of pocket, it one of the things that turns DH off from homebirth. In the event of a transfer, you have to pay both. If we were swimming in money, which we are not, he probably wouldn't care.

The thread is hopping today! Wish I could find the same energy to clean my house . . .

That's also why I couldn't justify a homebirth. I would have to pay out of pocket $3600 and then if I had to transfer, I would still have to pay an additional $1500 for the hospital birth. So as it stands right now, I will just have to pay $1500 for my hospital birth.

[AnnieA]

Originally Posted by MarineWife 

I think the wash is called Hibiclens but I could be wrong. You can try that. Also using garlic as suppositories and oral capsules, grapefruit seed extract capsules, echinacea and maybe one other thing that isn't coming to mind right now might help. One big question is how/where were you tested? Were you tested only from the vaginal area or did they test a sample from your anal area as well? A lot of times women will test + from the anal area but not from the vaginal area. Since baby is not coming out of your anus, I don't really understand why that's important. I have always been GBS+ in the past. I learned about the anal testing while I was pg with ds3 and refused it. When only tested vaginally I was negative. There's also the whole question, like JJ touched on, about how dangerous being GBS+ is or how helpful preventive treatment really is.

Good point about the location of the swabbing. I specifically asked my OB if he does the rectal swab as well and he said no. He thought it was silly since the baby doesn't come out of your rectum!

[Baby_Cakes]

I've never heard of swabbing your butt!  OMG what on earth is the point of THAT!?

If it were me and I tested positive, I would do all I could (probiotics, garlic, hibiclense) and retest closer to my due date.  I know you're on shaky ground with when this baby is going to make an appearance, BFS, so maybe you could retest in a week or so.  But I would DEF ask for a retest.  And if that were still positive, I would still want my home birth UNLESS I had some of the bigger risk factors.  Meaning -- preterm labor, ruptured membranes for a while, fever, or GBS in urine.  

Here's a helpful site:

http://www.homebirth.org.uk/gbs.htm

[BarefootScientist]

Thanks for the thoughts ladies. I am so conflicted. She did swab my rectum. I am talking to my husband about it now.

[MarineWife]

Originally Posted by BarefootScientist 

Thanks for the thoughts ladies. I am so conflicted. She did swab my rectum. I am talking to my husband about it now.

Definitely ask to be retested just in the vaginal area. There really is no reason for testing your rectal area.

I understand the issues with money but I have to say that there are reasons so much more important than money for having or not having a homebirth. If I went to the military hospital with the insurance I have, the only cost I would have would be $15 a day for the hospital stay. If I went to a civilian OB, I would have a 15% copay and a minimal hospital fee, if anything because there's a catostrosphic cap on how much I have to pay for any medical care. If I had the prime insurance and had referrals (if needed), my entire care would be free. I pay for my homebirth out of pocket even though my insurance company does cover a portion because the insurance company says my MW has a conflict of interest since she also works at the military hospital. If I have to transfer care, I will then have to pay my copays. We don't have a lot of money. One military income. It isn't much. It's worth it to me to pay, though.

I just had to say that because I think it's sad that one would pass up a homebirth mainly because of money. I mean, I do understand if you absolutely don't have the money to pay for the homebirth so that it's just not an option. That's very unfortuate. But that's not the same as not doing it for fear that you might end up transferring care and have an extra expense. I hope I'm not coming off insensitive or not understanding or anything like that but it bothers me that it's being presented as if the most important factor when deciding between a homebirth and a hospital birth is the cost. IMO, that's the least important factor.