The Celestine Prophecy: Cross-posted in Religious Studies

[mammal_mama]

Hi, I have just read this book by James Redfield and am now in the process of rereading it. This past Tuesday, I also prayed, for the first time, along with the webcast of the hour of global prayer that he leads with his wife.

This book is so awesome that I wanted to talk to others who have been affected by it, and I checked and saw that the last thread discussing this was quite some time ago.

It's funny what he says about coincidences being meaninful, because it was several days ago that I was strongly impressed by a sense that I needed to go to our local thrift store and shop for books, and that is where I found this book!

I'm looking forward to hearing what everyone has to say about the ideas discussed in this book, and also in any of his other books. I plan to accumulate them all, one by one, as I am able.

[Panserbjorne]

I loved this book and keep meaning to re-read it.  I first read it in the mid nineties I guess?  It was a gift from a family friend who was always wonderful at providing mystical insights.  It was a huge awakening for me, and provided a platform for me to feel less out there I guess?  It was exactly what I needed at the time.  I'll have to dig it up and give it another go, see if I have a similar response this time!

[mammal_mama]

It's great to see your response, Panserbjorne! I recently felt another urge, this time to drop by our local library, and this time -- coincidence of coincidences -- there was a copy of The Celestine Vision. So I've started it now! I'm also really excited about participating in the global prayer podcast again this Tuesday.

Here's to hoping for more responses!

[MyLittleWonders]

Originally Posted by Panserbjorne 

I loved this book and keep meaning to re-read it.  I first read it in the mid nineties I guess?  It was a gift from a family friend who was always wonderful at providing mystical insights.  It was a huge awakening for me, and provided a platform for me to feel less out there I guess?  It was exactly what I needed at the time.  I'll have to dig it up and give it another go, see if I have a similar response this time!

I think that was about the same time I read it. It definitely gave me a lot to think about at the time. I should probably pull it out of storage in the garage and reread it as well. And ot, but Hi PB!

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by MyLittleWonders 

Originally Posted by Panserbjorne 

I loved this book and keep meaning to re-read it.  I first read it in the mid nineties I guess?  It was a gift from a family friend who was always wonderful at providing mystical insights.  It was a huge awakening for me, and provided a platform for me to feel less out there I guess?  It was exactly what I needed at the time.  I'll have to dig it up and give it another go, see if I have a similar response this time!

I think that was about the same time I read it. It definitely gave me a lot to think about at the time. I should probably pull it out of storage in the garage and reread it as well. And ot, but Hi PB!

OMG!  I almost called you yesterday, but my kids got home early!  Are you around today?!

[Koalamom]

I have the book sitting on my shelf. I can't bring myself to read it because I saw the movie and it was so badly done that I just shudder having to relive that. Tell me the book is better.

[Panserbjorne]

hmmm, didn't realize there was a movie so I cannot say...

[MyLittleWonders]

I had no idea there was a movie either. The book was a very good read though, so if you can get the images of the movie out of your head, you may end up enjoying it. 

[HeatherAtHome]

I've seen the movie (after reading the book) and the book is WAY better. No comparison. 

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by HeatherAtHome 

I've seen the movie (after reading the book) and the book is WAY better. No comparison. 

hi heather!    I like seeing you here!

[HeatherAtHome]

Hey!

Yeah, I don't normally hang out here in spirituality but saw the book title on the main page. I'm around MDC, but in different sub forums so our paths never cross. Well, I stalk you in Health and Healing/Food and Nutrition sometimes but for some reason never post. 

[Wolfcat]

Originally Posted by bluebirdmama1 

I have the book sitting on my shelf. I can't bring myself to read it because I saw the movie and it was so badly done that I just shudder having to relive that. Tell me the book is better.

     Quote:

Originally Posted by HeatherAtHome 

I've seen the movie (after reading the book) and the book is WAY better. No comparison. 

Yeah, no contest. The movie is nothing compared to the book. Of course, the way the book is written doesn't translate well, but they made a go of it. It just doesn't do anything for me.

Just for background, I'm getting ready to read the Twelfth (as soon as I can afford the book), I've read all the study guides and the books, and I own the movie, as well as The Secret and What the Bleep (both very similar, though less... religious/spiritual?). I've read/seen everything no less than twice each, some more than that. And I've taught several people about it, enough to get them hooked, and led a discussion group on The Celestine once a week for about a year.

I still look forward to each time I reread it.

[nathansmum]

I read this for the 2nd time last year (found myself a 2nd hand copy since I borrowed it first time around). Really made an impact on me. I think I read it many years ago when I was first on this type of journey, and while I liked it then, it really meant more/interpreted it differently the 2nd time when read so many years later. I really want to understand better about "dramas", but can't fully comprehend it, or decipher them I guess.

I think I'll reread it again once I'm done with my current book, as I find it really inspiring and an easy read.

Have you worked through the workbook? I haven't read the next book though. I did also notice in the bookshop last week that there is a new one out (or maybe not new, but I havent' seen it before).

[Wolfcat]

The workbook is essentially a group of ideas for how to bring the experience of each insight to work for you. I had pretty much gotten what I needed from the book, but it was interesting to see what Redfield suggested.

I've noticed that many people either don't really get it or can't finish reading the book the first time or even the second time. It seems to have more to do with if a person is "ready" for the information than anything else. I've seen people swear up and down they hated it and would never read it again, and after being part of a discussion, reread it and LOVED it.

The dramas are an interesting topic for me. I've seen how it works and how it propagates IRL, and I think it's a great concept to use when working on yourself. But Redfield's method of "calling" people on their dramas is not what I would consider a IRL working method... It just doesn't work.

[mammal_mama]

Originally Posted by Wolfcat 

The dramas are an interesting topic for me. I've seen how it works and how it propagates IRL, and I think it's a great concept to use when working on yourself. But Redfield's method of "calling" people on their dramas is not what I would consider a IRL working method... It just doesn't work.

What has your experience been with this? As I understand it from The Celestine Vision, it would mean saying something like --

"You seem to think I should feel guilty about something." (to a poor me)

"You seem to be looking for ways to find fault with me." (to an interrogator)

"You seem to be telling me just enough to get me to keep asking you more questions." (to an aloof)

"You seem to think I should feel scared or insecure." (to an intimidator)

I honestly haven't tried calling anyone else out on his or her control dramas yet; I'm still sort of processing all the information and trying to figure out my own control dramas. But it seems like statements such as the ones above would be pretty likely to succeed in interrupting a lot of control dramas.

Whether they're actually likely to work, though, is a whole different matter. I guess it depends on what we mean by work -- does "working" mean for the people to start seeing that they're really just acting out some old script that they've got playing in their heads? Or does it just mean that we're able to call things what they are and quit getting sucked into the drama?

[Wolfcat]

Originally Posted by mammal_mama 

What has your experience been with this? As I understand it from The Celestine Vision, it would mean saying something like --

"You seem to think I should feel guilty about something." (to a poor me)

"You seem to be looking for ways to find fault with me." (to an interrogator)

"You seem to be telling me just enough to get me to keep asking you more questions." (to an aloof)

"You seem to think I should feel scared or insecure." (to an intimidator)

I honestly haven't tried calling anyone else out on his or her control dramas yet; I'm still sort of processing all the information and trying to figure out my own control dramas. But it seems like statements such as the ones above would be pretty likely to succeed in interrupting a lot of control dramas.

Whether they're actually likely to work, though, is a whole different matter. I guess it depends on what we mean by work -- does "working" mean for the people to start seeing that they're really just acting out some old script that they've got playing in their heads? Or does it just mean that we're able to call things what they are and quit getting sucked into the drama?

Actually, using "I" statements is better.

My mother is a Poor Me with an Interrogator secondary/mask (she's a poor me at the core, but she uses Interrogator as a more "acceptable" behavior - this is a concept that I have developed with my discussion groups over the years). I have told my mother: "I feel attacked when you talk about me in that way." She immediately switches to her Poor Me and accuses me of attacking her by saying that I feel attacked. I tell her that I am simply trying to express my feelings and that I didn't intend to make her feel attacked, but I wasn't going to feel guilty for not feeling and behaving the way she wants me to. (She is driven by her need to avoid the judgment of random observers.) It promptly spirals down into a combined judgment of my behavior and a massive guilt trip for doing this to my downtrodden mother.

I've attempted this several times. Most of the time I have remained calm and focus for the conversation.

I have several friends who are Intimigators (Intimidators with an Interrogator secondary/mask), and when they get into their aggressive arguing (the non-physical version of the Intimidator - in-your-face arguing), calling them out as being afraid or judgmental only adds fuel to the fire. One actually told me that I was a fraud for believing in the dramas and insights but not being able to live them perfectly.

I personally have come to the conclusion that awareness of one's own drama at any level is actually LESS possible when they are in the midst of their drama. This is because, in a situation where there is some sort of drama going on, there is a sensation of conflict. During conflict, particularly during a control-drama, people don't usually listen to what others are saying, except so far as to continue the conflict (i.e., "I want you to take out the trash." "About the trash, why is this house a mess?").

Control dramas are an a-ha moment that is more likely to be fueled by an elevated energy. The best way to get someone on their control dramas is to set up an energy conversation (when they sat in a circle and held a conversation led by the movement of energy) and bring up control dramas through that.

Conversational left turn, with a blinker - Speaking of energy conversations, OMG, I miss doing that!

[mammal_mama]

Thank you for reminding me about I-statements! I'd heard that somewhere but had forgotten.

As far as the people I know who I seem the most drama-prone, I guess I've kind of given up on them ever having an aha moment.

Of course, I realize we all have them (control dramas)...I'm just saying that the most energy-sucking people I know seem to have no interest in changing.

So, for me, calling someone out on his or her control drama would, more or less, just be me putting a name to what is happenening, for myself. I think I will feel like I'm succeeding when I can recognize my own control dramas before they happen and stop that cycle, and then can quickly recognize when others are starting them and name them -- whether I actually just name them to myself, and extricate myself or change the subject, or actually feel led to share what I'm seeing with the other person.

[mama*pisces]

Ah, thank you for this thread, Mammal Mama. I read The Celestine Prophecy for the first time in the 90's, ironically, while I was visiting Peru.  It resonated with me SO much at that time, that I started frantically taking notes about the insights while reading it. I started reading it once since then and remember that I never made it through the second time for some reason...I own that and The Tenth Insight, but I remember while reading the Tenth that I was really dissatisified with it; it didn't impact me anywhere near as much as the first book did.

I'm thinking that my finding this thread tonight is a gentle nudge from the Universe to try reading the first one again...I feel like I'm kinda at a crossroads in my life right now, recently dumped my best friend because I was sick of her drama and immaturity, but reading what you guys said about control dramas, I am wondering how much of a part I had in that drama. I seem to have an issue with keeping friends for more than a few years at a time, and am really starting to wonder what that's all about, since I've always valued my friendships deeply(most of them, anyway). This past one was definitely valued, but I feel such a strange detachment to her now. Weird.

Anyway, thanks for the reminder. I will definitely pick that book back up ASAP.

[mammal_mama]

Mama Pisces, I'm glad to see you here! I haven't gotten The Tenth Insight yet but I did just finish The Celestine Vision and that was just awesome!

My friendships have gone through a major upheaval over the last few years and I no longer feel like I have any really close friends. At first I felt a need to rectify this by trying to make a bunch more, but that hasn't panned out thus far.

Then I started realizing that my lack of a close circle (other than dh and the girls) has actually been very freeing in some ways. I used to be such a gossip and so critical of others...it was as if having the opportunity to voice my little irritations and negative opinions, and get them reinforced, just fed into the interrogator side of me. Then when I no longer had the chance to sound off about people, I gradually became less and less critical and more compassionate.

I feel like I've got both interrogator and poor me leanings, but I feel much freer of late. Maybe by the time I make new friends, I'll be ready to create healthier patterns of relating.

[mama*pisces]

Originally Posted by mammal_mama 

Mama Pisces, I'm glad to see you here! I haven't gotten The Tenth Insight yet but I did just finish The Celestine Vision and that was just awesome!

My friendships have gone through a major upheaval over the last few years and I no longer feel like I have any really close friends. At first I felt a need to rectify this by trying to make a bunch more, but that hasn't panned out thus far.

Then I started realizing that my lack of a close circle (other than dh and the girls) has actually been very freeing in some ways. I used to be such a gossip and so critical of others...it was as if having the opportunity to voice my little irritations and negative opinions, and get them reinforced, just fed into the interrogator side of me. Then when I no longer had the chance to sound off about people, I gradually became less and less critical and more compassionate.

I feel like I've got both interrogator and poor me leanings, but I feel much freer of late. Maybe by the time I make new friends, I'll be ready to create healthier patterns of relating.

 Glad you are feeling freer - I am too ever since letting go of that major drama, although really I am vacillating between feeling free and lonely, lately. I think I just need to make time to read some inpiring books, and get out of the house a little more without the kids. DD is just growing out of a major seperation anxiety phase, and DH works a LOT, so I feel kinda stuck a lot. But I know *this too shall pass*, and I think if I start consciously looking for ways to nourish my spirit, I will feel better.  

I know what you mean abou gossiping and critcizing...it definitely creates negative energy I think, but sometimes it's hard to avoid when with a group of women, or with certain friends that know the same people. I'm working on doing less of that as well.