success stories with xylitol? -- not such a great update. Not sure whom to trust anymore

[midnightwriter]

DS has a bad cavity--looks deep and brown, between two of his mollars. I took him to the dentist when he was in pain, and the dentist said it required the equivalent of a root canal and a metal cap--he wouldn't do it, and said he'd refer us. His pain lasted for maybe 15 minutes and then it was gone.

We have to wait for 3 months for a consult with the pedi dentist, and maybe another 2-3 months after that for an actual work to be done.

It has been a months since his first pain episode, and he had another short one (5 min?) yesterday.

I've been giving him 6-10g of xylitol (gum, candy from Zellies, and granulated from local health store) daily for the last 10 days. The wait for the dentist is long, and I don't feel good about this dentist anyway (our 'best' option here), as they are incredibly rude on the phone and very condescending. The appointment would require an injection for the sedation.

Is there any hope, when the cavity is so bad? Can we halt the decay right there, even for several years, without it progressing any further, with regular xylitol intake? I also ordered a special type of flouride to brush over his teeth (I've been really against flouride, but the state of dental care here is so abysmal, I'm changing my approach). How fast would I see any changes, if changes are to be expected?

If we the dentist has a cancellation, should I try to get him seen sooner, or, if he is not in more pain, wait until our August appointment?

Edited by midnightwriter - 5/5/11 at 4:10pm

[midnightwriter]

I've been reading up on this stuff, and it seems that if the cavity didn't reach the pulp, it is possible to reminiralize with xylitol. The dentist that we saw said 'he might need a root canal and a cap' so I guess he wasn't sure himself whether it reached the pulp, or affected the dentin only.

Then it says somewhere that if there's only occasional sensitivity, then it is unlikely reached the pulp. He had real pain--was in tears--but it has happened only twice in the last 6 weeks or so. If the decay reaches the pulp, is the pain constant?

I'm grasping for straws here. I just wish we had a nice, holistic, kid friendly dentist within the 4 hour drive radius...

[midnightwriter]

I started checking (visually) his cavity more often in the last several days, and now I'm not sure what is happening and whether this is good news or not.

What I saw initially, when he said it hurt, was brown, and remained brown after brushing. Now it is white when he wakes up, and seems to be white whe.never I check during the day.

First of all, I don't think it could have remineralized that quickly (only 3 weeks on Xylitol, and about 10 days with morning flouride treatments). Second, I read that cavities that remineralize look gray / black.

Anyone has any feedback on that? We will see yet another dentist in about 10 days, to just have a look and hopefully to start documenting changes, but his actual pediatric appointment is still more than 2 months away (but again, because they are so nasty, I'd like to avoid them).

[midnightwriter]

We, we saw our dentist today. According to the dentist. DS's cavity is arrested, but needs to be filled, because he will keep the tooth for another 6 years. It is not clear whether they will get too close to the nerve, which might mean a cap. Our specialist appointment is still 6 weeks away.

He has no other cavities, and the dentist was very pleased. He said that if we had started xylitol and stannous flouride earlier, we could have avoided the filling all together.

DD's only cavity is very minor and is arrested as well. She doesnt need a filling.

The dentist said that Xylitol is really wonderful, but that not many people follow through with the home care the way we were doing.

Our plan right now is to keep the xylitol and stannous flouride treatments, and postpone the August appointment for DS until October / November. Our thought processes is that if we keep on remineralising it for a longer period of time, maybe it is more likely that the filling won't need to go to the nerve, and we can avoid the cap. I'm not sure if this logic is sound, and I forgot to ask the dentist. I might ask him at a later date.

For now, this is our xylitol success story.

[prescottchels]

I commend you for sticking with your research and posts despite no responses here!!

I personally make a toothpowder for brushing my teeth that has xylitol, baking soda, Real Salt (a name brand), and orange and peppermint essential oils to make it taste yummy :-) I've had a few sore spots over the years, but they've all resolved themselves. I haven't seen a dentist in probably 10 years-though if I could scrounge up the money to go I'd like to mainly just to see if they think my teeth are as healthy as I think they are .

I'd keep postponing the dentist and watch the cavity. Seems to me that if it isn't causing pain and isn't discolored you're on the right track and no dentist is needed.

Good job, Mama!!

[midnightwriter]

Your toothpowder sounds yummy, thank you for sharing. I think I'm not getting any replies because of the F word (fluoride)--instead of telling me I'm poisoning my kids, I'm given the silent treatment . I updated because I think this information could be useful for someone at some point.

We've seen over 10 dentists here, and the last one seems to be, finally, flexible, respectful to our choices and patient with the kids. I'm not sure what to think yet of that the cavity needs to be filled, even if it is arrested. It is a big cavity, and even if the layer remineralizes, the 'crater' will remain. And frankly, I have no one else to ask for a second opinion at this point. I just realised that on August 2nd we have a consultation only, with the treatment scheduled in another several months, but the dentist that we are going to see, I don't trust her at all. It is the local sedation mill, with rude receptionists and the approach of 'we suggest you don't tell the child where you are going, until you pull into the parking lot' and zero consideration for individual differences. I'm sure they will want to put him under and cap it, no matter what. 

Originally Posted by prescottchels 

I commend you for sticking with your research and posts despite no responses here!!

I personally make a toothpowder for brushing my teeth that has xylitol, baking soda, Real Salt (a name brand), and orange and peppermint essential oils to make it taste yummy :-) I've had a few sore spots over the years, but they've all resolved themselves. I haven't seen a dentist in probably 10 years-though if I could scrounge up the money to go I'd like to mainly just to see if they think my teeth are as healthy as I think they are .

I'd keep postponing the dentist and watch the cavity. Seems to me that if it isn't causing pain and isn't discolored you're on the right track and no dentist is needed.

Good job, Mama!!

[butterflylover]

I'm learning a lot reading on this dental board. Thanks for keeping up with the updates. I've never heard of xylitol so I'm going to look into it asap! GL with the treatments. I hope no major work is needed!

[butterflylover]

Do gum products in the stores contain xylitol? We don't chew gum at all so I have no idea.

[HappyMonkey]

Most health food stores sell special gum with it.. I don't think standard trident or anything has it. You can buy online too.

[midnightwriter]

Xylitol gum is not available in regular stores. We saw some in healthfood stores, but it gets very expensive, as you need about 6 gums per day.We buy in bulk from zellies.com. I'm sure there are others sites. The kids never had gum before, so it is a big treat for them! When we are at thome, they rinse with raw xylitol, but when we are outside they get the gum.

[butterflylover]

Thanks for the info and the link!!

[prescottchels]

Originally Posted by midnightwriter 

Your toothpowder sounds yummy, thank you for sharing. I think I'm not getting any replies because of the F word (fluoride)--instead of telling me I'm poisoning my kids, I'm given the silent treatment . I updated because I think this information could be useful for someone at some point.

We've seen over 10 dentists here, and the last one seems to be, finally, flexible, respectful to our choices and patient with the kids. I'm not sure what to think yet of that the cavity needs to be filled, even if it is arrested. It is a big cavity, and even if the layer remineralizes, the 'crater' will remain. And frankly, I have no one else to ask for a second opinion at this point. I just realised that on August 2nd we have a consultation only, with the treatment scheduled in another several months, but the dentist that we are going to see, I don't trust her at all. It is the local sedation mill, with rude receptionists and the approach of 'we suggest you don't tell the child where you are going, until you pull into the parking lot' and zero consideration for individual differences. I'm sure they will want to put him under and cap it, no matter what. 

Yikes!! 10 dentists?!? That's a lot if disrespect goin on out there! sheesh. Is the tooth of your DS's a baby tooth? I think if you've gotten the surface to remineralize and it's not causing pain, and you can keep up the xylitol and flouride til the tooth falls out in the natural course of life-kids losing baby teeth... I'd say you're golden! And I wouldn't even go see the dentist about it. If on the other hand it's a permanent tooth...well...that might be a different story...

ETA: if you'd like my toothpowder recipe I'm happy to share it

[midnightwriter]

It is simply awful here, and I'm not even THAT picky.

I couldn't get out of the dentist why the cavity had to be filled. He was just repeating that he couldn't use the tooth for 6 years with the cavity, even if it is remineralised. He was very respectful in every other way, and the best we've found so far, so I just want to stop the search, it has been exhausting, especially for DD. I wish we could get more opinions, but it is traumatic for DD to go to yet another dentist, even if for just a consult--we've been through enough already...

I guess they are not getting the sentiment why we would prefer not to drill, if possible, because their solution is to sedate and drill--easy. They don't even need to deal with an upset child.

Yes, I'd LOVE the recipe! I was actually about to ask . Thanks!

 

Originally Posted by prescottchels 

Yikes!! 10 dentists?!? That's a lot if disrespect goin on out there! sheesh. Is the tooth of your DS's a baby tooth? I think if you've gotten the surface to remineralize and it's not causing pain, and you can keep up the xylitol and flouride til the tooth falls out in the natural course of life-kids losing baby teeth... I'd say you're golden! And I wouldn't even go see the dentist about it. If on the other hand it's a permanent tooth...well...that might be a different story...

ETA: if you'd like my toothpowder recipe I'm happy to share it

[prescottchels]

Not that it's any consolation, but you're likely the only parent these dentists have ever come across that has questioned their practices...so I can understand why the most recent one couldn't come up w/an answer for ya lol He was probably completely dumbfounded :wink

So did they fill it yet? or are ya holding off still...?

I make a bigger jar of toothpowder so that it lasts several months and just refill a little jar, that's probably 2 oz., that I keep w/my toothbrush. The little jars can usually be found at the health food store. I pour maybe 1/2 tsp into my hand, wet my toothbrush and wipe the powder up w/the toothbrush. Don't let anybody stick their toothbrush into the jar to get the powder. It'll get contaminated w/germs and also the moisture will make it hard and caky.

1 C baking soda

1/4 C + 1 tsp Real Salt (I use this brand for all my salt needs cuz it has all the trace minerals in it)

1/4 C + 1 tsp xylitol

8 + drops essential oil (I like peppermint & orange together-both available at any health food store, of if you can get Young Living Brand [network marketing company-sometimes oovy groovy stores carry it] Thieves blend is really good).

If you want to try just a little bit...

3 tsp baking soda

1 tsp salt

1 tsp xylitol

2 drops essential oil

[carmen358]

Originally Posted by prescottchels 

Not that it's any consolation, but you're likely the only parent these dentists have ever come across that has questioned their practices...so I can understand why the most recent one couldn't come up w/an answer for ya lol He was probably completely dumbfounded :wink

So did they fill it yet? or are ya holding off still...?

I make a bigger jar of toothpowder so that it lasts several months and just refill a little jar, that's probably 2 oz., that I keep w/my toothbrush. The little jars can usually be found at the health food store. I pour maybe 1/2 tsp into my hand, wet my toothbrush and wipe the powder up w/the toothbrush. Don't let anybody stick their toothbrush into the jar to get the powder. It'll get contaminated w/germs and also the moisture will make it hard and caky.

1 C baking soda

1/4 C + 1 tsp Real Salt (I use this brand for all my salt needs cuz it has all the trace minerals in it)

1/4 C + 1 tsp xylitol

8 + drops essential oil (I like peppermint & orange together-both available at any health food store, of if you can get Young Living Brand [network marketing company-sometimes oovy groovy stores carry it] Thieves blend is really good).

If you want to try just a little bit...

3 tsp baking soda

1 tsp salt

1 tsp xylitol

2 drops essential oil

Thanks for sharing! I'm just going to pick up some xylitol for the first time this week. Is your paste safe for a toddler that can't spit yet do you think??

[Chloebelle]

I have a thread here that didn't get any responses either. I suspect the regular posters have answered the same questions over and over, and know we'll find the answers if we just read other threads. That's my take anyways. I don't think it has anything to do with fluoride. 

I'm glad you've been updating us. My 4 year old has a few small holes in 2 of her molars. We've been using cell salts, xylitol and calcium supplements. We also just purchased colloidal silver for her to gargle with. Hard to say if it's helping, but the holes aren't getting any bigger, and they haven't darkened. I plan to make an appointment soon with the Ped. dentist. I'll KUP.
 

Originally Posted by midnightwriter 

Your toothpowder sounds yummy, thank you for sharing. I think I'm not getting any replies because of the F word (fluoride)--instead of telling me I'm poisoning my kids, I'm given the silent treatment . I updated because I think this information could be useful for someone at some point.

We've seen over 10 dentists here, and the last one seems to be, finally, flexible, respectful to our choices and patient with the kids. I'm not sure what to think yet of that the cavity needs to be filled, even if it is arrested. It is a big cavity, and even if the layer remineralizes, the 'crater' will remain. And frankly, I have no one else to ask for a second opinion at this point. I just realised that on August 2nd we have a consultation only, with the treatment scheduled in another several months, but the dentist that we are going to see, I don't trust her at all. It is the local sedation mill, with rude receptionists and the approach of 'we suggest you don't tell the child where you are going, until you pull into the parking lot' and zero consideration for individual differences. I'm sure they will want to put him under and cap it, no matter what. 

[midnightwriter]

Thank you! Your instructions are very clear, and I will try it out.

Re cavity: our consult with the pedi dentist is only on August 2nd. No other dentist will even try filling it, as they say they are not used to children, and god forbid he will need a cap (they all say they are not competent enough to put a cap on. I just wonder what's WRONG with dentists those days? It seems they good only for check-ups). They want him sedated (and we have 4 places that do pedi sedations to choose from and two of those are simply awful. Hence teh 6+ months waiting list for a consult, and then some more wait for the actual procedure.). Right not it is working to our advantage, as we want to see how the healing goes. I will try to find a dentist I could email x-rays to, for a second opinion. But that's after our consult.

The current dentist was at least aware of xylitol, and was supportive of our more holistic approach. And you are right, I don't think anyone questions them. When I called the pedi sedation office, I asked the receptionist about the Dr's rapport with children. I explained that DD is very sensitive, and she will go for a procedure only if she has a good rapport with the dentist. I wanted to make sure the dentist will took it into account. The receptionist laughed condesendingly and replied, "Well, your DD doesn't have a choice, doesn't she?"  So far we have avoided this place for DD, who is sensitive / anxious, and she had 8 cavities filled 4.5h away from home in a holistic clinic, but they didn't tell us about xylitol either, and now I wish I knew about it, and started it sooner. But DS will go to that 'evil' place with DH for a consult, and if we don't like them, we will not go ahead with the filling, and drive again to the holistic clinic, if indeed his cavity needs to be filled.

Originally Posted by prescottchels 

Not that it's any consolation, but you're likely the only parent these dentists have ever come across that has questioned their practices...so I can understand why the most recent one couldn't come up w/an answer for ya lol He was probably completely dumbfounded :wink

So did they fill it yet? or are ya holding off still...?

I make a bigger jar of toothpowder so that it lasts several months and just refill a little jar, that's probably 2 oz., that I keep w/my toothbrush. The little jars can usually be found at the health food store. I pour maybe 1/2 tsp into my hand, wet my toothbrush and wipe the powder up w/the toothbrush. Don't let anybody stick their toothbrush into the jar to get the powder. It'll get contaminated w/germs and also the moisture will make it hard and caky.

1 C baking soda

1/4 C + 1 tsp Real Salt (I use this brand for all my salt needs cuz it has all the trace minerals in it)

1/4 C + 1 tsp xylitol

8 + drops essential oil (I like peppermint & orange together-both available at any health food store, of if you can get Young Living Brand [network marketing company-sometimes oovy groovy stores carry it] Thieves blend is really good).

If you want to try just a little bit...

3 tsp baking soda

1 tsp salt

1 tsp xylitol

2 drops essential oil

[midnightwriter]

Thanks!  I've searched this forum, and actually didn't find anything conclusive from other posters that xylitol did, in fact, made a difference. So many people are using it, or trying it, but there were no posts about any documented improvement. I just figured I'd update if anyone late is interested--our dentist did confirm that the cavities are in the 'arrested' state. I don't think dentist think of teeth as 'remineralising' or 'healing', that's not in their vocabulary . But I consider the fact that the cavities have stopped progressing and are not soft anymore, as a great achivement.

 

Originally Posted by Chloebelle 

I have a thread here that didn't get any responses either. I suspect the regular posters have answered the same questions over and over, and know we'll find the answers if we just read other threads. That's my take anyways. I don't think it has anything to do with fluoride. 

I'm glad you've been updating us. My 4 year old has a few small holes in 2 of her molars. We've been using cell salts, xylitol and calcium supplements. We also just purchased colloidal silver for her to gargle with. Hard to say if it's helping, but the holes aren't getting any bigger, and they haven't darkened. I plan to make an appointment soon with the Ped. dentist. I'll KUP.
 

[midnightwriter]

Today DH took DS to the 'dental mill' place for the consult before the sedation + dental work.

The dentist refused to even take x-rays, and only used the ones that were sent to her in May. Her reasoning is that there's no way there would be any improvement, even with xylitol and stanous flouride treatments. She said that there's no way the progression was arrested (this is what our family dentist had said), and it could only be slowed down, which is good, because the treatment appointment in in January. So she thinks we can slow it down enough not to need an extraction. She said baby teeth do not remineralise. (Is it true?)

Her plan is to cap the two teeth.

She also says that white fillings (non mercury) in children do not stay, so this is why she doesn't do them. (DD9 had 8 filled with a holistic dentist, so I'm worried about them fallingout, as DD has dental anxiety and if those start falling out...omg...). I'm not really crazy about that particular holistic dentist as much, and she is 4.5 h away one way, the closest to us. We drove there last summer several times for DD's fillings...

The problem is, I'm not sure I can trust a dentist who runs the pediatric practice the way she does. Nothing in it agrees with our values (yet she is the best of the 3 or 4 available to us.) DH called her a butcher, and DH is an open minded, rational guy. This comment tells me that she was pretty bad.

In addition, I'm not sure I trust our latest family dentist, the one who said DS's cavity was arrested (though I do want to trust him). It seemed to me then that he is avoiding the issues, because he knew he wasn't going to treat DS himself, but refer him out. He did the same thing to me, referring me to a root canal specialist, who said he wasn't sure the root canal would help my problem, but did it anyway, and now I believe it was useless, as it didn't help my pain. Now the night guard did help my pain. I had to do my own research and tell my dentist about the night guard.

I'm frustrated, angered, and helpless. I feel that none of them (we've been through about a dozen) really care for us, their patients. I don't even know anymore how to find a dentist that I would trust.

Any advice and support much appreciated.

[prescottchels]

Sorry for the delayed response....I just now got the email update that there are replies on this thread!

Carmen358, I would think the tooth powder would be completely safe to swallow. You wouldn't be giving a large enough quantity for tooth brushing to cause any ill effects; however, xylitol when used as a sugar sub in baked goods often has a "laxative" effect. So that would be the only thing to know in case your LO decided to eat it from the jar, but I can't imagine it tasting that good lol

Midnightwriter, I can't believe the receptionist was that rude!! Good grief! I would steer clear of that place if at all possible.

I have Celiac disease (intolerance to gluten-wheat, rye and barley) and I just read today that children who have lots of cavities who have a healthy diet and good oral hygiene habits often have celiac disease! As part of your dental experiment you may want to try going gluten free for a few months to see what effect that has on the kids' health and teeth troubles. And/or have them screened for celiac. There are blood tests that can be done initially to determine the likelihood of having it or not before the actual procedure is done to get an official diagnosis. Let me know if you're interested in going this route as I'm happy to offer support, recipes, info whatever will help. You may want to use the PM function though to ensure more speedy replies ;-)

Are the children's teeth causing them pain still? If not, I wouldn't pursue any more dental visits for the time being. It'd be nice to find a dentist you actually like and can trust, but it sounds like right now is not a good time for dentists in your area, and perhaps if you take a break from focusing on it so much an awesome dentist will arrive on the scene that you start hearing about from others who's opinions you know you can trust.