Dumbing Down: is it a stage or an issue that needs to be addressed? If so, how?

[AllisonR]

DD said to me this afternoon "I am 4. And Smillie (her imaginary cat) is 10. So Smillie is 6 years older than me." Then this evening she had computer time. We use a timer, which should be set to 20 minutes, but it was only on 15 minutes. So DS protested on behalf of DD that she only got 15 minutes, not 20. So DD says "I should have 5 minutes more." 

So, it is obvious that she can add and subtract in her head. But at the same time, she also likes to do math worksheets, which she gets at pre-k on rare occasions, or she asks me to make some for her. I make really simple stuff like 7 + 2 = and 3 + 3 = ... She makes this whole production of holding up 7 fingers, and then 2 more fingers, or asking me to hold up the other 2 fingers, and then counting them all out individually 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9, and then writing the number down. 

If this is just a way she is having fun, "pretending" to be in school, then I want to let it slide. I also think if it is a stage then I'd also rather just let her be, and go through it naturally. Or maybe doing math in your head is easier than seeing the numbers and writing them, so she really does have to count them out when they are written? (Though I am doubtful here, she has been writing for a long time, she wrote her first "book" a year ago.) But if this is a bad habit, so she can be just like her peers, then I'd like to address it; though I am not sure how. Maybe some of you with older kids will have some insight. 

[moominmamma]

It could be a stage where it's just fun to 'pretend to be in school', it could be some 'dumbing down.' But there are other possibilities. She could be still working out the ways in which the symbolic representations of numbers on paper link up with the advanced ideas of numbers that she has in her head. She could simply believe that when you're doing sums on paper you're supposed to use fingers and count up. Or perhaps she's still working out the relationship between the '+' symbol and the idea of summing which she already does quite handily in her head. Or the exploring the way in which counting up from one number to the next equates to counting the whole series over from scratch. I wouldn't address it. It's likely a stage of some sort that she's working through. If she's happy, that's what counts. It must be serving some useful role for her to do it this way, whether a playful or social or mathematical one.

Miranda

[Galatea]

Ds1 does this... he seems to want "help" but really he just wants us to pay attention to him and not do it by himself.  It frustrates me b/c it made his time in PS pointless - he would do this over every homework assignment and do it in school, too.  He is homeschooled now and still does it.  I have no advice.

[loraxc]

DD has sometimes been sort of strange about math like this--sometimes obviously comprehending, other times going back to finger-counting and so on. If it seemed really fakey and put-on, I would be concerned, but she's only 4 and it doesn't seem as likely to me that she would be intentionally putting on a show with the purpose of blending in. I wouldn't take it too seriously, I guess. She may just be trying out different strategies.

Similarly, my DS is 3 and sometimes does perfect one to one counting of lots of objects and other times plays around and says 4 for 3 when he gives me something. I have also seen him answer OTHER people's math questions with aplomb in a way he never would if I asked him, I suspect. With him--he's just a goof, and playful.

[St. Margaret]

Yeah dd will say oh he needs just three more apples (reading ten apples up on top) and such but is still working it all out so I just chill about it for sure.

Now her language lately... Sigh. She started this babytalk thing, maybe bc we were at my moms daycare for a fortnight or the 5mo or whatever, but it us driving us crazy. She's like a different kid when she does it. I miss her! Then she'll be herself for a spell and it's soooo nice. So I tried to just let it be but we finally started refusing to respond to the babytalk-- she can't come up and grunt or say one word over and over in her baby voice, we wait for a real sentence if she wants us to do something. In this case it is very fake and showy. It's like she's in character. so ready for her to get over it!

[mom2ponygirl]

Originally Posted by St. Margaret 


Now her language lately... Sigh. She started this babytalk thing, maybe bc we were at my moms daycare for a fortnight or the 5mo or whatever, but it us driving us crazy. 

My daughter did this around age 4 or 5.  Suddenly my child that spoke in perfect paragraphs at age 2 was saying, 'Me want cookie!!'  It was annoying.  We did the same thing and just ignored it.  It did go away after awhile, thankfully!

[whatsnextmom]

I don't know that I'd jump to "dumbing down." The brain is a peculiar thing. My own kids were a bit odd in their math development. For example, when it came to real life math, as a toddler, math seemed to be instinctual for DS. I could have a dozen eggs, pull out 3 and he immediatly knew was 9 left or that we had enough to make 3 more batches of whatever we were making. However, if I simply asked "what is 12 - 3" he'd have to think about it or count it out. He's always been very visual and I think life and word math problems helped him "see" the numbers in action mentally as opposed to just handing him symbols on a page. The hesitation and counting didn't last long unlike my DD who relied heavily on her fingers all through elementary despite being very advanced. You can still catch her fingers absentmindly calculating when doing math and physics even years ahead.

To me,  "dumbing down" is when a child starts limiting themselves out of fear that they will be rejected for being different. Using multiple methods or trying out what might seem to you as an inferior method doesn't neccessarily mean she's feeling judged for doing math in her head. Even if she IS copying her peers it doesn't mean she's feeling ashamed of her abilities. Sometimes kids just know when to pull their punches in order to make their friends a little more comfortable in the beginning. We all sort of do it.... hold back traits or beliefs until we are comfortable enough to really let go. Sometimes it takes time to build up that comfort level.

I wouldn't worry at the moment. She's not giving up something she loves. She's not saying that she's too young to do math or anything like that. She's just using her fingers when you give her a traditional math problem. It's not going to last forever.

[EviesMom]

I wouldn't worry about it either. My daughter does just fine with single digit addition and subtraction, but for some reason, she's been freezing lately on two digit ones, even though she knows what to do. She will even sometimes write it out, say "first I add the ones in the ones column; then the ones in the tens column." But then she'll sit there and act like she can't figure out how to actually add them. Or she'll use her fingers. I think it's just a stage in figuring out another level that's less concrete than the last, having another step to do in the process. Practicing with flashcards or we use a math game on the phone that's basically a quiz program seems to help.

[RollerCoasterMama]

Originally Posted by mom2ponygirl 

My daughter did this around age 4 or 5.  Suddenly my child that spoke in perfect paragraphs at age 2 was saying, 'Me want cookie!!'  It was annoying.  We did the same thing and just ignored it.  It did go away after awhile, thankfully!

Oh my gosh, that happened when DS started preschool.  I hated it!  He used pronouns correctly from the first time and anyone could understand what he was saying as soon as he started talking.  (I hadn't realized how unusual that was until he started preschool as the youngest in his school...I had to retrain my ears for babies to understand his peers!)   When he started preschool at not quite three years old, suddenly he started stuttering and babytalking and "me want this".  I ignored it for a few months.  Then gradually, started requesting that he talk like himself.  I think the stuttering might have been a coincidence since his cousin of the same age went through the same phase and outgrew it at about the same time.  The next term, when new kids started, he did the babytalk again.  I'm looking at the bright side...he's in tune with the language of his peers and notices differences that lots of kids would ignore. 

Now he's four and some change.  He still baby talks when he's nervous, and any time a new kid starts, he mimics their speech patterns for a while.  But mostly he's dropped it. 

But definitely frustrating to go through!!