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What you wish you had known....Advice for 1st Time Moms - Page 4

post #61 of 105

You're right, but this is also an unusual situation.  If you have have a normal, full term baby and are healthy, it should be easy enough to get sleep.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by moaningminny View Post




Not when your first child is a severely colicky 31-weeker and you're suffering from PPD.  Unbelievable.

 



 

post #62 of 105

The one thing I wish I had in my head when my last baby was born(and she was my fourth live baby) was that FORMULA WON'T CAUSE DEATH AND DESTRUCTION. My formula fed baby was as healthy as a baby as my previous three babies, and is actually more healthy as a toddler than my previous three were. I could have saved myself a lot of self-flagellation.

 

Also, I got the least amount of sleep with my first live baby, who was healthy and full-term and breastfed exclusively, than with my other three babies(two of whom were full-term, healthy, and breastfed exclusively, and one of whom was full-term, healthy, and formula fed).  My first was just a really, really bad sleeper for his first two years.

 

post #63 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaJunkie View Post

The one thing I wish I had in my head when my last baby was born(and she was my fourth live baby) was that FORMULA WON'T CAUSE DEATH AND DESTRUCTION. My formula fed baby was as healthy as a baby as my previous three babies, and is actually more healthy as a toddler than my previous three were. I could have saved myself a lot of self-flagellation.

 

Also, I got the least amount of sleep with my first live baby, who was healthy and full-term and breastfed exclusively, than with my other three babies(two of whom were full-term, healthy, and breastfed exclusively, and one of whom was full-term, healthy, and formula fed).  My first was just a really, really bad sleeper for his first two years.

 


That makes me feel a lot better to hear that I might actually get more sleep with the second.  My first has left me pretty sleep deprived for the past year, and he's just starting to get a lot better.  He even sleeps through the night sometimes now!  Of course, I was never able to fully transition him to the crib, but hopefully I can work on that before # 2 comes along.  I reaaaaallllly hope my next baby is a better sleeper.   If I could be blessed with a good sleeping newborn and a toddler who's starting to sleep through, I probably will get more sleep than I have with just one.  I can dream, can't I?

 

post #64 of 105

I WISH I would have known more about circumcision! Always look up medications that are prescribed before taking them or administering them to your children!

post #65 of 105

You can't be a perfect parent...and there are consequences to trying. I see it a lot of MDC (and did to myself for the first few months of first DS's life) - women saying "I'm breastfeeding my 2 yo, co-sleep, wear him all day, feed him only homemade organic baby food, keep all plastic out of the house and clean my entire house with vinegar...and I'm miserable. My DH and I don't ever have sex, I haven't slept more than 2 hours at a time in 2 years and I'm starting to resent my child."

 

That is not a place to be. There are many, many ways to be a great parent and doing everything "right" is not one of them. Go with the flow a little, take some shortcuts, allow yourself to relax and sleep and you will ENJOY your child..which is the most important thing.

post #66 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaJunkie View Post

The one thing I wish I had in my head when my last baby was born(and she was my fourth live baby) was that FORMULA WON'T CAUSE DEATH AND DESTRUCTION. My formula fed baby was as healthy as a baby as my previous three babies, and is actually more healthy as a toddler than my previous three were. I could have saved myself a lot of self-flagellation.

 

 


Right on! yeahthat.gif

post #67 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by berry987 View Post



....misquoting a study so dramatically is harmful and hurtful to many, many people who use formula for a variety of reasons. .....



yeahthat.gif

 

post #68 of 105

I breastfed both my babies until they were 2+ and 3, which in my circle is nutso.

 

That said, my first had supplemental feedings of formula in the beginning, because I couldn't figure out what I was doing, and he was crying because he was hungry. I felt so guilty, but I felt more guilty letting my newborn be hungry.

Anyway, it all worked out great, but if I could go back I wouldn't have one drop of guilt over those bottles. It did him/us zero harm.

 

The best advice I could give to a 1st time mom is:

 

1. be kind. to yourself, to your partner if you have one, to your baby. That covers a lot.

 

2. I know this sounds odd, but if you have unresolved issues, seek individual counseling/therapy. It's helped me be a better mother and partner. It will help with being able to fulfill advice #1...

 

 

 

post #69 of 105

I'm sorry, but using point data to prove an argument is no better than misquoting a study (that may or may not be true).  The data shows that in a large population, formula fed children have more healthy issues.  This is the data that I believe when it comes to using formula, not anecdotal evidence.  There will always be a subset of the group that turns out fine.  For your one story I can think of many FF adults that aren't fine or as healthy as they should be...

 

I already apologized for my mistake, I did misquote that study.  However, I will always feel that breastmilk should be the first option and that a breastmilk donor should be the second (I was a breastmilk donor for 9mo, so I know first hand about this).  Formula is a good tool for women who have NO other option.  The vast majority of women that I know that start supplementing with "a little formula" end up with exclusively FF babies.  While this is not true for everyone, it is a reality.

 

My original point here was that I don't think formula should be used to 'get more sleep' or to 'go out with friends' (those are frivolous reasons to me).  It's for feeding a baby when breasts truly don't work.  I don't think women who try their hardest should feel guilty.  I don't judge individual women who use formula because I don't know their situation.  All I ask is that every woman tries her hardest for her baby.  Unfortunately this is not the norm in our society. 

 

I am not against formula.  I am against the VAST misuse of formula.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaJunkie View Post

The one thing I wish I had in my head when my last baby was born(and she was my fourth live baby) was that FORMULA WON'T CAUSE DEATH AND DESTRUCTION. My formula fed baby was as healthy as a baby as my previous three babies, and is actually more healthy as a toddler than my previous three were. I could have saved myself a lot of self-flagellation.

 

Also, I got the least amount of sleep with my first live baby, who was healthy and full-term and breastfed exclusively, than with my other three babies(two of whom were full-term, healthy, and breastfed exclusively, and one of whom was full-term, healthy, and formula fed).  My first was just a really, really bad sleeper for his first two years.

 



 

post #70 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abraisme View Post

I'm sorry, but using point data to prove an argument is no better than misquoting a study (that may or may not be true).  The data shows that in a large population, formula fed children have more healthy issues.  This is the data that I believe when it comes to using formula, not anecdotal evidence.  There will always be a subset of the group that turns out fine.  For your one story I can think of many FF adults that aren't fine or as healthy as they should be...

 

I already apologized for my mistake, I did misquote that study.  However, I will always feel that breastmilk should be the first option and that a breastmilk donor should be the second (I was a breastmilk donor for 9mo, so I know first hand about this).  Formula is a good tool for women who have NO other option.  The vast majority of women that I know that start supplementing with "a little formula" end up with exclusively FF babies.  While this is not true for everyone, it is a reality.

 

My original point here was that I don't think formula should be used to 'get more sleep' or to 'go out with friends' (those are frivolous reasons to me).  It's for feeding a baby when breasts truly don't work.  I don't think women who try their hardest should feel guilty.  I don't judge individual women who use formula because I don't know their situation.  All I ask is that every woman tries her hardest for her baby.  Unfortunately this is not the norm in our society. 

 

I am not against formula.  I am against the VAST misuse of formula.
 



 


Your posts about this continue to be smug and condescending. You say "All I ask is that every woman tries her hardest for her baby." Do you really think the majority of women out there don't already do this?? Aside from neglectful and abusive moms, just about every mom out there tries the hardest and wants the most for her children. Have you stopped to wonder whether women who use formula to get more sleep ARE trying their hardest? You may think it's frivolous, but there are women who suffer tremendously from lack of sleep and their babies feed on demand every hour for months and months on end. Who are you to judge? Because that is what you are doing, whether you admit it or not. You say you were a milk donor for 9 months, which shows that you produced enough milk to feed your baby and someone else's at the same time. Do you know what that makes you? Lucky. Not better or a harder worker or someone who cares enough to try her hardest. Just lucky.

 

Your post reminds me of my sister in law who travels the world with her kids and finds it sad that other families don't try "harder" to expose their kids to different cultures. Of course, she is pretty much independently wealthy and only has to work part-time to support her world travels...something she seems to forget when she judges all those people who don't take their kids to Istanbul. Maybe the "vast misuse" of formula isn't all misuse...maybe it's a bunch of women who work hard for their babies and love them deeply but don't produce enough, find it painful and hard to juggle nursing along with their hundreds of other responsibilities, or the many, many other reasons women supplement with formula. 

 

And as you bash anecdotal evidence, you use it yourself in your post. "For your one story I can think of many FF adults that aren't fine or as healthy as they should be..." How do you know these adults are not healthy because they were formula fed?? That's a HUGE leap. 

 

post #71 of 105
Thread Starter 

REGARDING BREAST MILK vs FORUMLA:

 

If you are interested please read this really interesting article on an alternative for commercial formula:

 

http://westonaprice.org/action-alerts/134-2011-action-alerts/2214-baby-formula-video-by-sarah-pope

 

This is the nutritional organization that I most trust and they have a very sound scientific (without a political or commercial agenda) background to their principals.

 

This video and the text below has lots of information on how to make Homemade Baby Formula.

 

Hope this helps someone who may need to use formula but is struggling with it.

post #72 of 105

One word: Enjoy

 

 

This is going to be a time of your life you'll always remember. A time you will always talk to your child about and they'll want to know about. Sling or stroller, breast or bottle, crib or queen - what matters is what works and what enables you to enjoy this special time in all your lives. The choices that are agonizing now and might cause you mama guilt for a few years, will be water under the bridge 10 years from now and onward. The looks of bystanders when they see your sling or stroller will be forgotten, but you'll always remember how you felt taking your baby out. Make it feel good whenever you can. 

 

Okay another 4 words: never hurt your child. 

 

Some things are painful and can't be avoided. But no circumstance is worth any pain intentionally inflicted. 

post #73 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by simonee View Post

One word: Enjoy

 

 

This is going to be a time of your life you'll always remember. A time you will always talk to your child about and they'll want to know about. Sling or stroller, breast or bottle, crib or queen - what matters is what works and what enables you to enjoy this special time in all your lives. The choices that are agonizing now and might cause you mama guilt for a few years, will be water under the bridge 10 years from now and onward. The looks of bystanders when they see your sling or stroller will be forgotten, but you'll always remember how you felt taking your baby out. Make it feel good whenever you can. 

 

Okay another 4 words: never hurt your child. 

 

Some things are painful and can't be avoided. But no circumstance is worth any pain intentionally inflicted. 


I couldn't agree with this post more. Well said.

 

post #74 of 105

Children are forigiving and really resilient. If you make mistakes, you will not have ruined them. Dont be afraid to try something new in fear it will be a mistake and they will be ruined. Dont sweat the small stuff. Pick your battles wisley. Dont make any parenting value your hill to die on. If it is not working for you, let it go.

post #75 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by berry987 View Post




Your posts about this continue to be smug and condescending. You say "All I ask is that every woman tries her hardest for her baby." Do you really think the majority of women out there don't already do this?? Aside from neglectful and abusive moms, just about every mom out there tries the hardest and wants the most for her children. Have you stopped to wonder whether women who use formula to get more sleep ARE trying their hardest? You may think it's frivolous, but there are women who suffer tremendously from lack of sleep and their babies feed on demand every hour for months and months on end. Who are you to judge? Because that is what you are doing, whether you admit it or not. You say you were a milk donor for 9 months, which shows that you produced enough milk to feed your baby and someone else's at the same time. Do you know what that makes you? Lucky. Not better or a harder worker or someone who cares enough to try her hardest. Just lucky.

 

Your post reminds me of my sister in law who travels the world with her kids and finds it sad that other families don't try "harder" to expose their kids to different cultures. Of course, she is pretty much independently wealthy and only has to work part-time to support her world travels...something she seems to forget when she judges all those people who don't take their kids to Istanbul. Maybe the "vast misuse" of formula isn't all misuse...maybe it's a bunch of women who work hard for their babies and love them deeply but don't produce enough, find it painful and hard to juggle nursing along with their hundreds of other responsibilities, or the many, many other reasons women supplement with formula. 

 

And as you bash anecdotal evidence, you use it yourself in your post. "For your one story I can think of many FF adults that aren't fine or as healthy as they should be..." How do you know these adults are not healthy because they were formula fed?? That's a HUGE leap. 

 



DDC crashing...but...bow2.gif

post #76 of 105

Yes, I do know many women that don't try their hardest for their kids.  I meet them every day. 

 

 

 

 

 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by berry987 View Post




Your posts about this continue to be smug and condescending. You say "All I ask is that every woman tries her hardest for her baby." Do you really think the majority of women out there don't already do this?? Aside from neglectful and abusive moms, just about every mom out there tries the hardest and wants the most for her children. Have you stopped to wonder whether women who use formula to get more sleep ARE trying their hardest? You may think it's frivolous, but there are women who suffer tremendously from lack of sleep and their babies feed on demand every hour for months and months on end. Who are you to judge? Because that is what you are doing, whether you admit it or not. You say you were a milk donor for 9 months, which shows that you produced enough milk to feed your baby and someone else's at the same time. Do you know what that makes you? Lucky. Not better or a harder worker or someone who cares enough to try her hardest. Just lucky.

 

Your post reminds me of my sister in law who travels the world with her kids and finds it sad that other families don't try "harder" to expose their kids to different cultures. Of course, she is pretty much independently wealthy and only has to work part-time to support her world travels...something she seems to forget when she judges all those people who don't take their kids to Istanbul. Maybe the "vast misuse" of formula isn't all misuse...maybe it's a bunch of women who work hard for their babies and love them deeply but don't produce enough, find it painful and hard to juggle nursing along with their hundreds of other responsibilities, or the many, many other reasons women supplement with formula. 

 

And as you bash anecdotal evidence, you use it yourself in your post. "For your one story I can think of many FF adults that aren't fine or as healthy as they should be..." How do you know these adults are not healthy because they were formula fed?? That's a HUGE leap. 

 



 


Edited by Abraisme - 6/12/11 at 8:51pm
post #77 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abraisme View Post

Yes, I do know many women that don't try their hardest for their kids.  I meet them every day. 



How can you possibly know what another woman's "hardest" is? 

post #78 of 105

To me, many women are more inclined to do what's best for themselves, not what's best for their babies.  All of my examples below are women that I've met in the last 1-2mo alone.  These are the everyday people that I see.  I know there are many women that try their hardest (I have tons of these people as friends) and I know there are many women that don't.  I don't think that anyone has to be perfect, but I do think there should be a struggle to do what's right.  I went through a lot of hell to breastfeed my first child, I know what it's like to struggle.  I worked my butt off (as a single mother) to keep my child out of daycare, I've lived it.   The sad fact is that not all women do try their hardest for their babies.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I know a woman that didn't breastfeed because "she didn't like it".  That is what was best for her, not her baby.

 

I know a woman that went right back to work because "she needs to retire someday".  I'm pretty sure that is what's best for her, not her baby.

 

I know a woman that's pregnant with her second child (her first is only 4mo).  She got pregnant because her relationship is on the rocks and she doesn't want her boyfriend to leave her.  Again, NOT what's best for a child.

 

I know a woman that smoked through her entire pregnancy because "it's just too hard to quit"...  Need I say more?
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingmommyhood View Post





How can you possibly know what another woman's "hardest" is? 



 

post #79 of 105


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abraisme View Post

To me, many women are more inclined to do what's best for themselves, not what's best for their babies.  All of my examples below are women that I've met in the last 1-2mo alone.  These are the everyday people that I see.  I know there are many women that try their hardest (I have tons of these people as friends) and I know there are many women that don't.  I don't think that anyone has to be perfect, but I do think there should be a struggle to do what's right.  I went through a lot of hell to breastfeed my first child, I know what it's like to struggle.  I worked my butt off (as a single mother) to keep my child out of daycare, I've lived it.   The sad fact is that not all women do try their hardest for their babies.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I know a woman that didn't breastfeed because "she didn't like it".  That is what was best for her, not her baby.

 

I know a woman that went right back to work because "she needs to retire someday".  I'm pretty sure that is what's best for her, not her baby.

 

I know a woman that's pregnant with her second child (her first is only 4mo).  She got pregnant because her relationship is on the rocks and she doesn't want her boyfriend to leave her.  Again, NOT what's best for a child.

 

I know a woman that smoked through her entire pregnancy because "it's just too hard to quit"...  Need I say more?
 



 

I just don't think it's up to me what is best for someone else's child. I don't live their life...I'm not raising their child. The above things you listed aren't choices that *I* would make but I can't possibly say that the only right choice is the one I would make in any given situation. I really don't want to speak to every dangerous situation a parent could put their child in with their decisions as that is really broad but as far as breastfeeding because a woman "doesn't like it"...who are you or I or anybody to say that that's wrong? Is it a shame? Certainly. If she truly doesn't like it a person could argue that her baby will sense that and their bonding process could be seriously interrupted and even permanently damaged from the stress. shrug.gif Also, I'm going on the assumption that these are casual encounters you've had with these people and I will say that I had a horrible time nursing my first born, so much so that we would both cry at every feeding, we didn't bond for well over a month. Faced with a similar situation with the baby I'm currently carrying, I would quit in a heartbeat. I have three other children that need a sane mother and I may even tell casual acquaintances that I didn't like nursing, so I quit. I would just assume it was really none of their business to know all of the facts behind the decisions I make in my life. 
 

I'm really not trying to be argumentative though it's hard for me to convey that through text...what I'm really trying to say is that you are definitely coming off as harsh and judgmental and, well, the air can get thin up on a high horse...if it's high enough. winky.gif

 

post #80 of 105

I suppose that I come at this from a different view point.  I too had a VERY hard time nursing my first child for the first 6 weeks.  I feel now, because I pushed through the worst times, that the years of breastfeeding made us so much closer.  Once the pain and frustration wore off, the benefit of the struggle was 110% worth it.  If I had given up, I would have felt extremely guilty for the rest of my life.  Not only that, but I think it would have negatively impacted my long-term bonding with him.   I think that doing the best thing for a child is worth one hell of a struggle.  If in the end, a women can not breastfeed, at least she would know that she tried.  I've also known women that STRUGGLED for a long time to bf and had to quit in the end.  There is a clear difference between this type of woman and my example below.

 

The woman in the example below simply doesn't like being a mother, there's hardly a relationship, period.  She spends her whole day meeting his basic needs and putting him back into a plastic carrier (his head is totally flat).  She was also counting the days until she returned to a job (that she didn't have to financially return to).  To me, this is no different than child abuse/neglect.  The exact same argument could also be used for someone that beats their child, it's all they know and they ARE trying (who is anyone to judge).  There isn't enough judgment in our society and children get hurt.  Most people will judge someone that physically beats a child, I guess my bar is just a little lower than the average American.  I think that feeding your kids junk food, voluntarily putting an infant in daycare, letting an infant cio, refusing to research, etc are all forms of child neglect.  I know what it's like to extend yourself past comfort for your own child, I don't see a lot women doing this.

 

There isn't a huge variable of "what's best for someone else's child".   ALL children have the same basic needs.  They all deserve healthy food, love, atonement, touch, and to be put first.  Unfortunately these things are not considered important in our society. 

 

I really wasn't trying to judge anyone here on Mothering.  The reason that I use this site is because I think that most people here are informed and do try their hardest for the kids.  The whole original point of my argument is that, "I would stay away from frivolous formula".   Mostly because I've known way too many women that start with one or two bottles and quickly abandon breastfeeding all together.  I do think that using formula to get sleep or to go out with friends is probably frivolous.  I can't help but think that.

Originally Posted by lovingmommyhood View Post


 

I just don't think it's up to me what is best for someone else's child. I don't live their life...I'm not raising their child. The above things you listed aren't choices that *I* would make but I can't possibly say that the only right choice is the one I would make in any given situation. I really don't want to speak to every dangerous situation a parent could put their child in with their decisions as that is really broad but as far as breastfeeding because a woman "doesn't like it"...who are you or I or anybody to say that that's wrong? Is it a shame? Certainly. If she truly doesn't like it a person could argue that her baby will sense that and their bonding process could be seriously interrupted and even permanently damaged from the stress. shrug.gif Also, I'm going on the assumption that these are casual encounters you've had with these people and I will say that I had a horrible time nursing my first born, so much so that we would both cry at every feeding, we didn't bond for well over a month. Faced with a similar situation with the baby I'm currently carrying, I would quit in a heartbeat. I have three other children that need a sane mother and I may even tell casual acquaintances that I didn't like nursing, so I quit. I would just assume it was really none of their business to know all of the facts behind the decisions I make in my life. 
 

I'm really not trying to be argumentative though it's hard for me to convey that through text...what I'm really trying to say is that you are definitely coming off as harsh and judgmental and, well, the air can get thin up on a high horse...if it's high enough. winky.gif

 



 

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