GREEN POOP w/ occult BLOOD - chiro/dietician says T.E.D. not good during 6-9month period ???

[DirtyHippyMama]

help me out mamas.  my babe will be 6 months next week and she's had green poop FOREVER, like i remember seeing normal yellow/curdy poop in her first weeks of life and since then not a single 'normal' poop.  it's dark green to greenish-gold, most often mucousy, and rarely any curds. 

she has also had major 'colic' issues due to some kind of pain.  i cut gassy foods with no results. we've had a tongue-tie clipped, reflux is medicated, block-fed for a month with no difference.  finally, i cut dairy (6 weeks ago).  i have been very strict about it.  that has made a difference in her moods, but she still has bouts of pain/fussiness and her poop is STILL GREEN. 

i have been taking her to a chiro once a week for adjustments, and the chiro is also a registered dietician, so she's been talking to me about food allergies and special diets.  i suggested that we try a TED to see if it's something other than dairy (like gluten), but she says it's not a good idea to cut out major food groups between 6-9 months because that is the age that their bodies are learning to tolerate things...

anyone ever heard of this?  i don't even know if i need to worry about her poops anymore since her moods are better, but i'm afraid of long-term damage to her digestive system...

thoughts?

[ShwarmaQueen]

the ladies over in Allergies have all kinds of info on this. That might be a good starting place.

I have heard about what she's talking about though. Just dont know much though.

[Pynki]

Any of my kids who had green poop after the newborn meconium were usually having problems with something in my diet.  One for one of the kids it was orange juice.  Also a hindmilk/foremilk imbalance can cause green poos I am remembering.  If it's going on since the babe was little is that a possibility?  Um... are you feeding any solids?  Blueberries can cause some technicolor poops, but if it's been going on since birth, I'd bet more that it's something in your diet.

[foreverinbluejeans]

Just because someone is a RD doesn't mean they know anything about breastfeeding. An RD may know about breastfeeding because she has a special interest but RDs aren't breastfeeding experts.

Green poop can be from your baby not getting enough of the high fat hind milk. Using only one breast a feeding and letting the baby nurse as long as desired at that breast will allow the baby to get the high fat milk. Next feeding use the other breast.

There is no medical evidence that gluten causes problems in breastfed babies. Since the baby is on medication this will change the baby's gut and it isn't the same as the gut of an EBF baby. Even if the baby stopped the medication the gut would take time to return to that of an EBF. Since the baby is now the starting solids age the baby may never return to the EBF gut.

A normal baby can have green poop and colic issues. Poop comes in lots of colors. We don't know what causes colic (we know some risk factors) or how to fix it. There was an article in Mothering Magazine within the last couple of years about starting solids and how it was important to start a wide variety of foods early so the child would like a lot of healthy foods.

[Katielady]

My guess would be foremilk/hindmilk imbalance, as a PP suggested. I had this going on for a while with my first and corrected it by "block feeding." For a four-hour period, every time baby asked to nurse I'd put him to the right breast, however many nursing sessions that entailed. Then the next four hour block would be for the other breast. This way you ensure the baby really empties the breast and gets the hindmilk. It will also decrease your supply, which can correct the overabundance problem causing the imbalance in the first place. More on that here:

http://www.llli.org/faq/foremilk.html

good luck! oh and if it does turn out to be a foremilk/hindmilk problem, once you correct it the fussiness should go away along with the green poops.

[DirtyHippyMama]

Originally Posted by ShwarmaQueen 

the ladies over in Allergies have all kinds of info on this. That might be a good starting place.

I have heard about what she's talking about though. Just dont know much though.

thanks -- i cross-posted ;)
 

Originally Posted by Pynki 

Any of my kids who had green poop after the newborn meconium were usually having problems with something in my diet.  One for one of the kids it was orange juice.  Also a hindmilk/foremilk imbalance can cause green poos I am remembering.  If it's going on since the babe was little is that a possibility?  Um... are you feeding any solids?  Blueberries can cause some technicolor poops, but if it's been going on since birth, I'd bet more that it's something in your diet.

just started introducing solids, but just tastes of very simple, plain stuff: banana in a mesh feeder, apple wedges and carrot sticks for teething, rice grains (from my plate), a few cheerios, etc.  all of this in the past few weeks (she's just now 6 months old).  the green poop/blood has been going on most of her life.  i have been strictly dairy-free for 7 weeks.
 

Originally Posted by foreverinbluejeans 

Just because someone is a RD doesn't mean they know anything about breastfeeding. An RD may know about breastfeeding because she has a special interest but RDs aren't breastfeeding experts.

Green poop can be from your baby not getting enough of the high fat hind milk. Using only one breast a feeding and letting the baby nurse as long as desired at that breast will allow the baby to get the high fat milk. Next feeding use the other breast.

There is no medical evidence that gluten causes problems in breastfed babies. Since the baby is on medication this will change the baby's gut and it isn't the same as the gut of an EBF baby. Even if the baby stopped the medication the gut would take time to return to that of an EBF. Since the baby is now the starting solids age the baby may never return to the EBF gut.

A normal baby can have green poop and colic issues. Poop comes in lots of colors. We don't know what causes colic (we know some risk factors) or how to fix it. There was an article in Mothering Magazine within the last couple of years about starting solids and how it was important to start a wide variety of foods early so the child would like a lot of healthy foods.

the chiro consulted with colleagues (who knows what that means...maybe an online forum?) about our situation and that's when she came back with the anti-TED advice.

i have always been a one-boob-per-feeding mama unless baby is ravenous.
 

Originally Posted by Katielady 

My guess would be foremilk/hindmilk imbalance, as a PP suggested. I had this going on for a while with my first and corrected it by "block feeding." For a four-hour period, every time baby asked to nurse I'd put him to the right breast, however many nursing sessions that entailed. Then the next four hour block would be for the other breast. This way you ensure the baby really empties the breast and gets the hindmilk. It will also decrease your supply, which can correct the overabundance problem causing the imbalance in the first place. More on that here:

http://www.llli.org/faq/foremilk.html

good luck! oh and if it does turn out to be a foremilk/hindmilk problem, once you correct it the fussiness should go away along with the green poops.

i have been block-feeding casually for a several months.  it didn't seem to make a difference (over the course of a month i saw 2 yellow poops and only a handful of greenish-gold poops) so i stopped for a few weeks.  i recently started again, just to see.  because she gets really hungry, i'll feed her from the same breast every time she wants to nurse until she starts to get really frustrated from lack of milk and then i'll switch.  this makes it about 2-3 feedings per boob before switching...so, average 4 hr blocks. 

she had her 6 month checkup on tuesday and there was occult blood in her stool sample.  ped is referring us to a GI specialist.  ped wants us to stop the reflux meds, too (maybe they were irritating her stomach?  particularly the zantac...).  this is day 4 without them and she seems fine in that department.  i am continuing my dairy-free diet until i consult with the GI doc.

i also wanted to mention that i read of a study with EBF babies with occult blood in stool that was unaffected by TED...they gave the mamas digestive enzymes before eating (so, like 6 times/day) and many of the babies' poops got better (i.e. no more blood) within days.  of course that sent me straight to the HFS to get some, lol... i have been taking them for about 3.5 days now and i did notice a more normal-looking poop yesterday (although it had obvious banana contributions as well, heheh).  still not quite yellow, but yellower than before.  and still a bit mucousy and not curdy. 

[homemademom]

Frankly, I think what she said is silly.  Babies don't actually *need* food until a year old. They can live on bm alone. Solids are for practice only, not so much for nutrition, so cutting any food groups during that age is not different than cutting it at some other time.  

I'm an allergy mom, so I've btdt with all the food restrictions. You can either start with a TED and add back in other foods one at a time. However that takes forever.  You can also start by cutting the major allergens (dairy, soy, wheat, egg, fish, shellfish, nuts, tree nuts) and then, after you get to baseline, add those back in one at a time. If you don't get to baseline, you can remove other possible culprits, like corn.  The biggest thing is to keep a food and reaction journal, not matter what approach you take.  

[beckington]

Originally Posted by DirtyHippyMama 

i also wanted to mention that i read of a study with EBF babies with occult blood in stool that was unaffected by TED...they gave the mamas digestive enzymes before eating (so, like 6 times/day) and many of the babies' poops got better (i.e. no more blood) within days.  of course that sent me straight to the HFS to get some, lol... i have been taking them for about 3.5 days now and i did notice a more normal-looking poop yesterday (although it had obvious banana contributions as well, heheh).  still not quite yellow, but yellower than before.  and still a bit mucousy and not curdy. 

Do you have a link to that study, or a link to where you heard of it? I'd be curious to read more. We are dealing with our own poop issues! :) Also how is your dd's poop now, after a few more days on the enzymes?

[SweetSilver]

From an allergy mom:  Breastmilk is a complete nutrient.  You can eliminate whatever you want (I don't get your chiro's advice against a TED??????)  Tastes in breastmilk seriously take a backburner to something causing pain.  Eliminate away, I say.  TED, if you must.  Your breastmilk will be fine!

     Mucous (except during colds) is a red flag for allergies.  6-9 months is still a fine age for a mostly-or-all breastmilk diet.  I would hesitate to introduce much more than you have, in fact I might even dial back the solids.  Has anything changed when you introduced each of these?  Babies really don't need any nutrition beyond breastmilk, any additions are for fun and experimentation.  I would especially be wary of any grain, rice, oat or wheat, but again, what was her response compared with before?  

     In addition to dairy, wheat and nuts have a strong breastmilk connection.  If TED seems overwhelming, eliminate these first.  Could the blood be a sign of severe lactose intolerance?  One mom I knew gave her baby drops to help digest the lactose in her breastmilk and the blood disappeared.  

     Reconsider getting a different dietician?