New here--To skip or not to skip?

[asu_mama]

Long time lurker, first time posting. I know that the grade skip question is fairly common here, but I would really like some insight to figure this out so if you could indulge me, that would be wonderful. :)

My dd is 7 and in 1st grade. She has an October birthday, so is on the older side for grade. Our district starts GT pull-out in K and last year she tested into all 3 units and continued in that this year. She goes to this program for the bulk of her Mondays and she loves it. This year she has been subject accelerated for reading and math (to 2nd grade "exceeds expectations" groupings). She gets along well both with kids in her current grade and with the older kids and her behavior in class is wonderful. Her teacher reports that she stays very engaged in the classroom, but she has complained some at home of being bored and the work being too easy.

Her GT teacher encouraged me to consider the grade skip when she kept complaining of boredom, so she was given a test (the IAS I think) and her teacher and the GT teacher completed their sections. Based on this info, the principal approved the double promotion. I hope to have a meeting with the GT and classroom teachers next week, but I am not feeling too keen on this idea. Here are my concerns:

1. Social stuff in the older years (dating, moving away from home "early", partying, etc), and to a lesser extent this stuff now. I do my best to keep her young and innocent and worry about this affecting her socialization or vice versa, but fortunately the school is dominated by pretty like-minded families.

2. I worry that this is not a long-term solution. I don't believe my child to be at some super high level of giftedness, but she is a very quick learner and I expect (based on my observations of her and my experiences as a child) that after an initial catch-up period, she may very well rise to the top and again be under-challenged.

3. College and career decisions. When I started college at 17 with a bunch of AP credits, I was in a position where I was forced to select a major and start taking courses in that major, with people who were sophomores and juniors and several years older than me. I just feel like the combination of the skip now plus the likelihood of AP credit later, you run the risk of compressing the undergraduate years so much that you have kids who aren't ready to make these grown up choices but are somewhat forced to because it's the next step.

I'm not really sure how to balance all of this and come to a reasonable conclusion. Any insight you are willing to share is much appreciated. Oh, FWIW, dd was told about the purpose of the test she took and is totally expecting to go to 3rd grade next year.

Thanks!

[spedteacher30]

back when I was in school, I was 7 at the start of 3rd grade. I turned 6 in the late fall/early winter of 1st grade.

It was never an issue for me to be "behind" some of the other kids. I could have been radically accelerated as a kid, but my parents weren't interested in that for me. I'm not sure when I would consider a grade skip--I think I prefer waiting a little longer in most situations. In our district, when it occurs, it is most likely done when a 7th grader has already exhausted the 8th grade accelerated curriculum and went to the high school for a course or two as a 7th grader (typically math and then they have them do science or social studies over there on the other days)--so they have proven they can do high school work, and rather than have them get 2 more credits as an 8th grader, they just move them directly to 9th grade.

[moominmamma]

Honestly, she sounds like almost the perfect candidate for a skip. She's old for grade (where we live she'd be 2nd grade already, with some kids a couple of months younger in her class), does well socially and is already appropriately accelerated in the curriculum. I would do what's right for the next year or two and not get too worried about possible wrinkles down the road. So many more possibilities may open up between now and when she hits high school or college, so much may change about her. 

1st through 3rd grades are very much about moving through certain basic literacy and numeracy skill sets and ensuring that kids don't fall through the cracks. Starting in 3rd / 4th grade the curriculum tends to become gradually more open-ended, more project-oriented, more adaptable for kids who want to challenge themselves. So I can see a good argument for skipping 2nd grade, to get her through the "learning literacy skills" phase of elementary school sooner. 

As to your concern about the early pressure to specialization in college ... is it possible in the US to take a gap year? It's very common in Canada, New Zealand, Australia and many other countries. You take a year off after high school to travel, live abroad, work, learn in a non-institutional setting. Then you go off to college, hopefully with a more mature and experienced view of yourself and the world. It's an especially great option for kids who graduate early. I finished high school very early and took a gap year. My dd17 is taking what's in essence a gap year next fall (she will live away from home and do her last couple of high school courses via distance education while working and playing music intensively). Another option would be to choose a college that has a multi-disciplinary approach to degree programs, where polymaths are valued and encouraged.

Miranda

[whatsnextmom]

She sounds like a good candidate to me as well. In our area, she'd be finishing up 2nd grade next month. In fact, she's older for grade than BOTH my kids and only one skipped. We're even in a high red-shirting area and so there are kids a full 2 years older than my accelerated child and a year to 1.5 years for my child who is right for grade. She's been going to 2nd grade for the bulk of her academics and doing well. She gets along with both age sets which says to me that she has strong social skills. You have a supportive school. Whether you ultimetly decide to go forth or not, you can't say she isn't a solid candidate.

I can tell you our experiences with your questions and our our one skipped child.

1. Social stuff... honestly, it's not been a real issue for my DD. She turned 14 recently and about to finish her Freshman year in highschool. She's a late bloomer physically having just started her period. No biggie... her friends thought she was the luckiest girl on the planet. Driving, in our area, not many kids get their license at 16. Most wait until 18 or after highschool. It's just too expensive to get driver training, insurance, gas and a car. Plus, in our state, there are tons of restrictions on underage drivers... even if your 16-year-old was dating, they could not even drive in a car alone together until they'd been driving for more than a year! There are fewer and fewer work opportunities for teens and so they don't have money. Dating, hasn't been an issue for us. DD's friends aren't dating even though most are 15 and 16. Those that have boyfriends and girlfriends do the "group" dating sort of thing prior to 16/17... you go to a movie with a boy you might like and 8 of your best friends. Plus, teens are ridiculously busy. Who has the time? DD has never been into pop-culture though that has more to do with personality than age. Sure, I was a little nervous beginning of the year when "drop-off at the mall" started to happen but she was 13 and with a large group of kids. It wasn't like she was 10 and alone. I know, it's really hard to picture when your child is 7 how actually "grown-up" they'll be at 13/14 but how you feel about what they can handle does grow with them.

2, It's not a long-term solution alone. Just face that now. It's not going to fix everything. Our DD has still needed additional subject acceleration, advanced, honors and highly gifted programming. Still, she's getting a lot more as a 9th grader than she could have gotten if she were in 8th grade likes she's supposed to be this year. She's found further accomodation much less iscolating than when she was with her age peers.

3. I wouldn't stress too much about AP's. It's not like it was when we were off to college. Most universities accept very few if any AP's. Universities are using them to get you out of entry-level classes but often you don't get units. They don't neccessarily shorten your college time these days. Some of our more competitive specialty schools are dropping the AP program all together and opting for broader and more college like honors classes. There are options other options too moving away and going to college immediatly. We know several kids who have taken a "gap year" or two to raise money and take advantage of those non-pay internship opportunities while they live at home. We know many who are going the junior college route first despite qualifying for a 4-year and staying home.

You know your child best and whatever direction you go, I'm sure you'll make it work for her. Just rejoice in the fact that your DD is in a school that recognizes her and is willing to try different avenues with her.

Originally Posted by asu_mama 

1. Social stuff in the older years (dating, moving away from home "early", partying, etc), and to a lesser extent this stuff now. I do my best to keep her young and innocent and worry about this affecting her socialization or vice versa, but fortunately the school is dominated by pretty like-minded families.

2. I worry that this is not a long-term solution. I don't believe my child to be at some super high level of giftedness, but she is a very quick learner and I expect (based on my observations of her and my experiences as a child) that after an initial catch-up period, she may very well rise to the top and again be under-challenged.

3. College and career decisions. When I started college at 17 with a bunch of AP credits, I was in a position where I was forced to select a major and start taking courses in that major, with people who were sophomores and juniors and several years older than me. I just feel like the combination of the skip now plus the likelihood of AP credit later, you run the risk of compressing the undergraduate years so much that you have kids who aren't ready to make these grown up choices but are somewhat forced to because it's the next step.

I'm not really sure how to balance all of this and come to a reasonable conclusion. Any insight you are willing to share is much appreciated. Oh, FWIW, dd was told about the purpose of the test she took and is totally expecting to go to 3rd grade next year.

Thanks!

[cyncyn]

I agree not to worry about later; do what's right for right now. DD skipped 2nd and is now in a 3rd, 4th and 5th grade class; she turned 8 a month ago. She is in a K-12 charter and that did influence our decision a little bit about the skip. Our local high school is a tough urban school, not somewhere I think I would want to send my sensitive, small for her age daughter at 13. But I do think that we could work with that if necessary. There is also a local community college where she can take extra classes if needed. I'm not sure how much more acceleration she will want or need; so far, the access to more advanced materials and concepts is keeping her challenged. Though she still has issues with socializing when done with her work...

If your dd has the basic or advanced literacy skills including writing, a skip can be very beneficial as far as getting her exposed to more individual and group projects, higher level math, research etc. DD just aced the statewide 3rd grade tests in both math and literacy, really proving to us (and staff) that the skip was necessary. Her school does 1/2 grades together so 2nd would have been more of the same as first grade, same teacher etc. Look at the grade groupings at your dd's school, and possibly at the next school she would attend as you think about your plans.

[emmaegbert]

This advice sounds right to me. You don't know what will happen down the road. We are in the opposite situation where DS is the oldest in his grade, and when he started at this school (which is a private gifted school) we decided to not weigh in and let the school decide what grade to put him in. (November birthday, would have been 1st grade in public school and here there is NO leeway on that, "redshirting" is not allowed). We're very happy with his placement in K, and I figure if/when we move or transfer school systems, we then get the choice of keeping him in his grade or asking he be evaluated for grade level, since he's a fall b/day and in a school that is accelerated anyway. There is no widespread consensus on where fall birthday kids "belong"- they are either the oldest or the youngest.

One of my cousins ended up 2 years ahead by the end of middle school (she went to a tiny 3-room rural school for k-8, at which her mom was one of the teachers. They were by necessity very flexible and individualized in their approach to every student). Her whole family took a "sabbatical year" before she started high school and she learned Spanish abroad (with them) and then she took a "gap year" after she graduated high school, and did a formal exchange program with a family in Spain, so in effect she attended an "extra" year of high school and went to college at 18 completely fluent in a second language, and with this amazing experience of living abroad, etc. Anyway. Not suggesting that your family would do that sort of thing, but just saying, there are creative and very useful ways to make use of an "extra" year if you find your DD is not ready for college at 17. And yes, people in the US do things like that though its perhaps not as common. I think I would have been a good candidate for a "gap year" not b/c I was ahead, but just b/c I wasn't really ready to start college my first year. I just needed a break!

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyncyn 

I agree not to worry about later; do what's right for right now.

[emmaegbert]

and yeah- don't worry too much about AP credit. I went to two colleges (first one for a year, then transferred, took a semester off and then finished my BA in a total of 5 years, the last of which was going halftime). Both were selective private schools (second was Ivy). Neither accepted AP credits, it just got you out of some intro-level courses. So my AP credit (of which I didn't have much, since I already knew it wouldn't save me any $$ later on) didn't shorten my college time.

Also, don't you have to APPLY for any transfer credit? I imagine that even a school that gives you credit for AP courses, if you don't put in the application to get the credit, they won't give it to you. Just saying.

[asu_mama]

Wow! Thanks for all of the insight. :) I must admit that it's more one-sided than I expected, but you are right that if I put future worries out of the equation that it makes a pretty good case for moving forward with the skip. I will meet with her teachers this week and come to a decision. Thank you all SO much for taking the time to read and respond!

[ChristaN]

I can add to the one-sided advice -- lol!  My oldest just finished 8th grade at age 12 and will be starting high school in the fall just shortly before her 13th bd.  She was on the other side of the K cut-off pre-skip so already young for grade.  Socially, it was the best thing we've ever done for her.  Middle school went really well although she, too, isn't an early bloomer physically.  There are, like you and others mention, areas where the work was still not totally appropriate in terms of challenging her but in her weakest subject, the placement has been just right.  Especially as she moves into high school, the options she has available are hopefully going to meet her needs better.  She plans to double up and take two science classes her freshman year and a few pre-AP classes so she can open up options to take more interesting classes her sophomore year.

Our biggest worries at this point surround how we are going to finance college in that we weren't expecting to send her off to college at 16.  I guess that we wouldn't have had enough saved even with another year or two though, either!

Your dd sounds like a really good candidate for a skip.  The IAS, for what it's worth, isn't a test.  It is a scale that ranks a variety of things from IQ or group ability scores to the child's size and age in comparison to peers, how well she completes work, gets along with peers, teachers, etc.  There are parts that are subjective, of course, but it is a pretty decent tool.  My dd came out as an excellent candidate on the IAS and it seems to have been a correct gauge for her.  If the IAS is saying to go for it and your dd is on board, I'd give it a shot.

[LynnS6]

Originally Posted by asu_mama 

3. College and career decisions. When I started college at 17 with a bunch of AP credits, I was in a position where I was forced to select a major and start taking courses in that major, with people who were sophomores and juniors and several years older than me. I just feel like the combination of the skip now plus the likelihood of AP credit later, you run the risk of compressing the undergraduate years so much that you have kids who aren't ready to make these grown up choices but are somewhat forced to because it's the next step.

Thanks!

Not sure how much advice I'm going to be able to give because I'm in a very similar position with our 1st grader, only she's got a late May birthday and doesn't turn 7 until this Friday.

But as a college professor, I did want to address your 3rd concern. Just because she starts with a bunch of AP credits doesn't mean that she necessarily has to start taking courses in a major. In fact, I'd encourage her to take a wide range of subject courses her first year to really explore your options -- if she tests out of beginning History, for examle, then she can do a more advanced History. The more advanced courses are much more interesting usually. Ditto for math, science, languages, etc. Just because she's got credits doesn't mean that she can't explore lots of different areas. And she can always change her major. I changed my major 3 times, and that was pretty typical.

I'd also strongly encourage a study abroad year if you can afford it. My highly gifted niece entered college with a whole bunch of credits. Because of that she was able to spend January - May in Kenya and Tanzania taking some courses, but also learning Swahili and experiencing some amazing things. Because she doesn't have to worry about having enough credits to graduate, she didn't have to be so careful about what she took while abroad. I did something very similar. My year in Berlin was an amazing experience. True, I came home with relatively few credits, but I got to go white water kayaking in the Austrian alps!

In some ways, being ahead would give your daughter more time to find herself, try new things, etc because she won't have to be so concerned with basic requirements.

[A&A]

My dd skipped 1st and is in 9th now.  It has been the best decision for her, hands down.  Yes, I worry a little about her going off to college at 17, but a bigger worry would have been letting her get under-challenged and depressed, as was already starting to happen in K. 

Some big-name schools (Johns Hopkins, for example) do not even accept AP credit, btw. 

[CA Mom]

My son is 7 in 2nd. He too has a fall bday. I was able to start him in k early because of California's very late cut off date although most people hold out their fall kids so essentially he has skipped a grade. He is the youngest in his class with many kids who are nearly 9 or 9 because of holdbacks. It can be difficult because he is emotionally immature any way but if he was in 1st grade this year it would have been a huge disaster. His teachers told me in the very beginning of 2nd grade, he was still 6, that he had already completed 2nd grade but I cannot see moving him even more ahead because of the emotional immaturity and because his sister is only 1 grade ahead and that would really disrupt the family dynamics. Not to mention his teachers insist he is barely average despite multiple IQ tests to the contrary but that is a different story. I would move her ahead in a heartbeat.

[allmylove]

My dd 10 skipped just this year in the fall from 4th to 5th, which in our school 5th is the last before middle.  After a month or two of adjustment, she gained not only academically but huge boost in confidence.  She finally had her first D grade this year, along with some diciplinary notes (not turning in homework after the skip).  It showed her that she can come to use with things that arn't nessessarly good and we will still handle them fine.  Also taught her to work for something academic in nature.

She has had a few problem kids picking on her, but she has stood her ground and in the process picked up a few friends as well.  We are really looking forward to middle school honors classes where hopefully she will meet some kids who are more like her.  What she isn't looking forward to is the locker room for gym class, I just told her everyone is worried about the same thing whether they have some or they don't, and will get picked on for either as well.

As far as college, we have 4 children all together, DD10 is the oldest, so we are planning on filling out as many scholarship applications as it takes, and applying for the Air Force Academy.  And if she wants to take a year or so "off" and do something besides school for a little bit thats fine too.

I wish I had more to say as far as advice, but this is my first swim in the "gifted" pool so we are catching on and learning as we go.