So conflicted and confused - Page 3

[MamaofLiam]

Originally Posted by D_McG 

Originally Posted by MamaofLiam 

I think the above was really mean spirited. Nothing you said there helped the OP, it just put her down. I get you disagree with her position, but geez...

I think the OP was perhaps interpreting the quote from D_McG as her implying she was mentally ill. I can see that. 

I am feeling for the OP right now. She came her for help / advice, and she just seems to be getting slammed. I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with anyone's position. She came here genuinely looking for help, but some of you are being really harsh. Saying things to her like "are you teaching your children this nonsense" is just so unnecessary. Why don't those of you who feel the need to be mean just stick to what she asked for and help explain your point of view without reaming her in the process. Threads like these make me think twice about coming here for support on something I feel vulnerable about. 
 

Honestly it makes me very angry to read things like the OP posted. I think it's a really really shitty way to act. Incredibly arrogant and condescending to some poor young mother who is doing the best she can. I'm not going to be all 'hugs mama!' at such blatant ignorance/arrogance.

I get it makes you angry. But it doesn't make it right to be mean. It's also not helping her to see your POV. It just polarizes things and makes ppl feel yucky. The OP wanted help and advice on how to deal with her feelings and her situation. Do you think you were helping her?

[APToddlerMama]

OP-- I can understand where you're coming from in a lot of ways.  I also had to work really really really hard to nurse my son.  I just have to point something out though.  I have two friends who haven't breast fed their kids.  They have taken tons of crap for it.  Both are very close to me and I really wondered why they had chosen not to breastfeed, but I never asked.  It turned out that one friend had been sexually assaulted and the thought of breastfeeding was a real trigger to her.  With the other, who is one of my very best friends, she would call me crying telling me what people had said to her about not breastfeeding--really really cruel things.  Despite the fact that she shared that, it took her almost five years to tell me the reason she wasn't breastfeeding which was because she was on a medication that she absolutely needed, that was completely dangerous to a breastfed baby.  I have no clue why she didn't just tell people "I take a medication that the baby can't have" but for some reason, that was so private to her that she was willing to take downright abuse from people who didn't agree with formula feeding.

Your SIL probably doesn't fit into either of those scenarios.  But she might fit into another category of just not having the personal and emotional resources, self esteem, or strength to do something that can be very challenging.  And some people just don't know what they don't know.  You obviously made huge sacrifices for your kids to get to a place where you could nurse them.  Your kids are lucky and you are a great mom for going to such great lengths to breastfeed.  You're not going to do anyone any good though by taking a stance on not feeding your nephew.  I get that you don't feel comfortable and that he won't starve if you aren't the one giving him the bottle, but I don't see the point.  I think you are trying to take a stance on something really important to you, but you have to look inside yourself and ask what you are going to accomplish exactly.  What will the end result be?  You are going to create hard feelings within your family.  You feel strongly about breastfeeding.  Don't underestimate how strongly your SIL is going to feel about your stance or the conclusion that she is being "judged."  I agree with you that this isn't the ideal situation and that mom doesn't sound super bonded to this baby.  That is even more reason to create a good relationship with SIL.  You will have more influence over her parenting if she is able to see you modeling appropriate parenting, attachment, meeting baby's needs, etc.  It is much easier to influence behavior than dictate what another person does, especially when your tactic is refusing bottle feeding.  If SIL can feel like you are not judging her and like you *support* her choices, she is more likely to look to you for advice, direction, support, etc.  Then you will be a bigger part of your nephew's life and he will be the real winner in this.  Good luck OP...

[stiss]

Originally Posted by TCMoulton 

Originally Posted by MommyBear 

Oh for goodness sakes!  I'm not denying the poor little guy anything!  I'm not his caretaker in any way shape or form!  I'm just there WITH HIS PARENTS chatting at a small family get together.  I was just asking for suggestions on how I could politely hand the little fellow back to his mama so SHE could feed him.  If I were the only adult around, yes I would feed him gladly.  I would never withhold food from a baby for any reason.  That is just cruel.  Please don't slap that label on me.  I just see such a lack of bonding with them that it makes my heart sad.  Now his daddy on the other hand, it is a beautiful thing... He feeds the baby, rocks the baby, sings to the baby.  It is wonderful to watch.  I guess I am just a bad person for coming here to vent my feelings and to ask for advice.  Sorry for making that mistake.

How is it possible that you can see a lack of bonding between the mom and baby after only having seen them together once - just because a mother chooses to not breastfeed her child in no way means that they are not bonded.

Agreed. I think you need to look inside yourself and decide what it is that your problem really is, here. I'm not sure if you've internalized your own struggles to the point that you're unfairly projecting them onto your SIL, or you're being judgmental about FF to the point of excess, or maybe both. Why is it that your brother's feeding the baby makes you mushy, but your SIL's feeding the baby "breaks your heart"? Children being loved and cared for by their parents shouldn't encite heartbreak in others, even if you don't share their choices. Statements like that are such over the top hyperbole, and if they're not, they're indicative of misplaced judgment.

I worked my butt off to breastfeed my kids as best I could. Round-the-clock pumping, lactation aids, drugs, and many, many tears...and yet, I still had to give my kid formula to survive. Do I feel a longing when other mothers can nurse without these issues? Yes. Do I think all mothers SHOULD try and nurse? Yes - but I don't think it's my place to judge them for making other choices, since it's not my body, or my baby, and because on the whole, good parenting will ALWAYS be about so much more than whether you choose to nurse or not. I hated feeling like a failure every time I put a bottle to my child's mouth. It was WRONG to feel that way, and not just because I "did all that I could". It's totally besides the point, and I hate listening to that kind of ugly judgment from other mothers.

So, to answer your question - when you're with the family, enjoy the little baby. If you can't get past the horror of seeing a poor neglected child being bottlefed, then make an excuse and hand the baby to someone who would be happy to oblige. However, for goodness sake, take some time to think about the fact that maybe, just maybe, you're internalizing your own struggles in an unhealthy way - what you did for your kids is really commendable (I don't know the details, but I do know how hard it is to struggle with breastfeeding) - so just be proud of your hard work. That pride should come without having to hold everyone else to those standards, since it was ultimately your personal CHOICE - one that is every mother's right to make, without judgment.
 

[Pynki]

Actually?  Given the number of women who have been sexually assaulted or abused, she may not be breastfeeding for exactly such a reason.  Just as women who have, or are, breastfeeding don't want to be told where they can or can not breastfeed, that they shouldn't expose children to "that", or that they are abusing their child for breastfeeding a child older than 6 months; women who choose to use formula for their infants shouldn't have to explain themselves either. 

How we feed our children is a deeply personal decision often times laced with traumas from our past.  No one should have to justify how they are feeding their children so long as their nutritional and emotional needs are being met.

[D_McG]

Originally Posted by Bokonon 

Jeez, I have a very close friend who won't hold other people's babies until after they can sit up on their own, and she has a child.  It's just not something she's comfortable with.  I would certainly never berate her or tell her she needs psychological help for having anxiety over something so minor.  And I never felt it was ignorant or arrogant that she didn't hold my babies when they were babies, even though our sons are 12 days apart.

Does she refuse to hold them because she 'can't bear' some aspect of your mothering? I would assume not. You just can't compare the two, seriously.

[D_McG]

Originally Posted by MamaofLiam 

I get it makes you angry. But it doesn't make it right to be mean. It's also not helping her to see your POV. It just polarizes things and makes ppl feel yucky. The OP wanted help and advice on how to deal with her feelings and her situation. Do you think you were helping her?

She didn't want advice on how to deal with her feelings. She wanted advice on how to pass the baby off when it was feeding time so she wouldn't have to 'bear' putting a bottle to his lips.

I see no harm in the OP hearing just how rotten a thing that is to say/feel so that she might be able to get a grip before polluting anyone else's head or feelings with it.

[stiss]

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

Your SIL probably doesn't fit into either of those scenarios.  But she might fit into another category of just not having the personal and emotional resources, self esteem, or strength to do something that can be very challenging.  And some people just don't know what they don't know.  You obviously made huge sacrifices for your kids to get to a place where you could nurse them.  Your kids are lucky and you are a great mom for going to such great lengths to breastfeed.  You're not going to do anyone any good though by taking a stance on not feeding your nephew.  I get that you don't feel comfortable and that he won't starve if you aren't the one giving him the bottle, but I don't see the point.  I think you are trying to take a stance on something really important to you, but you have to look inside yourself and ask what you are going to accomplish exactly.  What will the end result be?  You are going to create hard feelings within your family.  You feel strongly about breastfeeding.  Don't underestimate how strongly your SIL is going to feel about your stance or the conclusion that she is being "judged."  I agree with you that this isn't the ideal situation and that mom doesn't sound super bonded to this baby.  That is even more reason to create a good relationship with SIL.  You will have more influence over her parenting if she is able to see you modeling appropriate parenting, attachment, meeting baby's needs, etc.  It is much easier to influence behavior than dictate what another person does, especially when your tactic is refusing bottle feeding.  If SIL can feel like you are not judging her and like you *support* her choices, she is more likely to look to you for advice, direction, support, etc.  Then you will be a bigger part of your nephew's life and he will be the real winner in this.  Good luck OP...

This is really, really good advice. I hope you can take it to heart, because it was given with gentleness and restraint.
 

[APToddlerMama]

Originally Posted by D_McG 

I see no harm in the OP hearing just how rotten a thing that is to say/feel so that she might be able to get a grip before polluting anyone else's head or feelings with it.

Ease up a little D_McG.  Being just slightly gentle can go a long way.  You don't have to always attack the person in the thread when you disagree with them.

[MamaofLiam]

OP I think if you aren't comfortable with it, don't do it. It's perfectly acceptable to snuggle, hug and play with the baby in other ways. I'm a big believer in honoring one's emotions / feelings. I'm sure there are plenty of people who would love to feed the baby. A lot of people really enjoy that. I don't think you should have to feel bad that you don't want to. Do you think you will be put on the spot? B/c I think it would be really important to not make your SIL feel bad also. You don't want to come across as if you are trying to make a statement judging how they feed their baby. I would just try to avoid being in the situation where that would happen.  

As a side note - I have a cousin who refused to hold my baby until he was past the age of 1.  She does have children of her own, but I was okay with that. I would never want someone to do something they didn't feel comfortable doing. 

I would suggest avoiding making negative judgments of your SIL (I'm not saying you have), b/c like pp's have pointed out who really knows what's going on. People have to do what works for them. My personal opinion is that most important thing is that the baby is loved and cared for - and there are lots of different ways to do that. 

[D_McG]

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

Ease up a little D_McG.  Being just slightly gentle can go a long way.  You don't have to always attack the person in the thread when you disagree with them.

I don't usually. But this has made me very angry and I'm not apologizing. Plenty of people are doing the hugs mama thing. I'm not going to be fake.

BUT I have wasted enough energy here. So I will bow out.

[kamikazismom]

MommyBear, I understand where you are coming from.  I also have "extremist" views on infant feeding.  BUT....I keep my opinions to myself.  I may vent in private to my husband, but I don't let other mothers know how upset I get when I see them choosing not to breastfeed.  I'm sure there are things that I do that other mothers don't agree with, but I don't want to hear thier negative opinions of me, so I don't share mine either.  If you are asked to feed the baby, you could say "no thanks" or you could just do it and then vent to someone later who understands how hard it was for you to do it.  Good luck!

[bonjourmama]

You ARE an elitist OP, and I honestly think you need to work through some of your own feelings of inadequacies. 

This is the kind of garbage that divides us as mothers, not brings us together. 

I am disgusted. 

[Mommy2Austin]

OP I totally get your feelings. I also understand that you felt these feelings PRIVATELY and weren't off spewing them to your SIL and brother. I agree with the others who have said to just politely hand DN off to his mom or dad when he's hungry. There's no reason (unless you were ALONE with him) you need to feed him his bottle. You are not a bad person just because you had feelings that were contrary to others opinions.

I had a hard time after my nephew was born with my sister not breastfeeding. She literally did it because she is lazy. She wanted to be able to hand off baby whenever she wanted and not have to look back until she was ready to play mommy dearest. I know this because I've watched my sister since day one. She takes the path that lets her have the most fun and the least amount of personal responsibility. I did feed my nephew his bottle when I came home from work one night and my BIL had come with the baby to the house. I also watched him sputter and choke on his bottle because my sister couldn't be bothered to buy slow flow nipples. She wanted him to eat and eat quick. It was hard and I tried to alleviate as much of the issue (holding him upright and letting him take sips from the bottle, frequent burping to avoid a belly ache and spit up) as I could without a bottle in the house to use for him.

I can't say who your SIL is or if something happened to her (traumatic or otherwise) to make her dislike breastfeeding. I'm glad from what you said that your brother appears to enjoy holding and rocking the baby while he eats so at least if his mom isn't the cuddling type he has it from some end. Thankfully this stage in life is short and you probably won't have to see/deal with it much and be able to move past it as he grows up :)

I was a little surprised at the lack of compassion and the amount of assumptions in this thread. Even some who disagreed were able to say it matter-of-factly without calling names or slinging insults. I'm glad I don't pride myself on being perfect! My medical bills would be through the roof for the amount of times I'd fall off that high horse.

[MamaofLiam]

Originally Posted by bonjourmama 

You ARE an elitist OP, and I honestly think you need to work through some of your own feelings of inadequacies. 

This is the kind of garbage that divides us as mothers, not brings us together. 

I am disgusted. 

Did you not read through the entire post? Wow! The garbage that divides us is you and your mud slinging. God you're just nasty.

[bonjourmama]

Are you kidding me???? MUD slinging??? I realize OP says she was in a coma. My response has nothing to do with that!

OP, sorry for your struggles, but you said you didn't want to "sound" elitist, and you asked, so I gave my opinion. But if you didn't give my kid a bottle because you didn't feel comfortable as a result of YOUR OWN ISSUES, I would personally give you the name and number of my therapist. Because that's an issue. 

Get well. 

[TiredX2]

You really can disagree with an individual without making it into a personal attack.

That said, OP, I think you're borrowing trouble.  If you don't want to feed this baby, there is an easy solution: don't.  My DP diapered our children almost every time they needed a diaper change that he was home.  A few years ago, when they were well out of diapers, he decided he was done with that part of his life, lol.  If our nieces or nephews need a diaper change, he just passes the baby off.  It's not his kid, not his job. 

I'm sure that if you have several other adults available there will be at least one who will be *thrilled* to feed the baby.  Instead of making it an issue, just pass the baby back to Mom or Dad and call it good.  If, for some reason, you feel like you would be unwilling to feed the baby (doesn't sound like it), make sure you're not left alone with him any where near feeding time.  Not everyone has to do all things.

[Viriditas]

OP, I just want to share a story to let you know that I understand how you feel, to some extent.

I visited my sister when her daughter was about 2 weeks old.  She was breastfeeding and supplementing with formula, I'm pretty sure for no other reason but her husband's weird hang-ups and control issues.  She was also claiming that she had a low supply, even though she told me later she was frequently engorged.  Anyway, DN got hungry, and my sister asked if I'd like to give her a bottle, saying that she was going to "save her milk for later."

Now I knew that if I tried to encourage her to breastfeed instead, I would just come off as pushy and judgmental.  I knew that she was fully aware of how breastfeeding worked and that it wasn't the best idea to give a bottle if she was trying to get her supply up.  I kept my mouth shut, helped her mix the formula, and sat down to feed my niece, really, really wishing she was getting her mama's milk instead.  I was very uncomfortable at first, but as I snuggled that little baby and watch her become calm and sleepy as her tummy filled, I was just glad I could make her comfortable and happy.

OP, can I gently suggest that you just try feeding your nephew once?  I understand that your feelings are strong, but your reaction might not be as bad as you think it will be.  And if it's something you really can't handle once you start, you can always claim you have to pee and pass him off to someone else.

Whatever you do, please don't make an excuse like, "I'm not very good at bottle feeding."  Now THAT really sounds snarky and passive-aggressive.  If you're holding the baby, he gets hungry, and you feel too uncomfortable to feed him, just hand him to someone else cheerfully, telling them he's hungry.  If they ask you to feed him or why you don't want to feed him, LIE!  Say you have to pee or your have to make a phone call, or something totally unrelated.  The baby's parents shouldn't have to feel as if you're looking down on them or judging them, even if you are.

And please do examine your feelings and try to figure out why you feel so strongly about this.  You don't want to get into a situation where you simply can't handle other people not living up to your parenting ideals.  Even parents you admire probably do some things you'd disagree with pretty strongly.  If you set yourself up on some pedestal that no one else can reach, you might find yourself getting a little lonely. 

 

[fyrebloom]

Ok, So I haven't read all the responses, just the first page, but I completely understand where you are coming from.  If she needed help and needed me to give him a bottle or if I were watching him while mom and dad are out then yes, of course I'd give the baby a bottle.  If offered to feed the baby I'd simply say no thank you, and hand the baby back to his parents.  No explanation needed, just no thanks.  I'm happy to play with the baby, change a diaper, give a bath but mom can feed the baby if she's around.  There are lots of ways to be a wonderful Aunt without that.  Granted if she asks WHY you won't feed the baby a bottle I'd probably just say that It's ok I don't need to you go ahead or I'm much better at feeding baby food, catch me in a couple of months.  She probably really does feel like she's doing something special for you by letting you so do respect that and keep it in mind when declining.  There is no reason to feed the baby at this age, when he starts solid foods there will be ample opportunity to do so.

[fyrebloom]

Wow, there is SO much nastiness on this thread!  Yikes!  You'd think she was trying to starve her nephew!  When we breastfeed we do it all.  There is no dad helping (unless we pump.... much more of a PITA then feeding baby at the tap) there is only mom and her breasts.  There is this attitude that if you formula feed you can just pawn the baby off to the nearest set of arms and it's "an honor" to feed them smelly staining dairy product.  What is wrong with saying no?  What is wrong with saying you feed your child just as I fed mine, you do it your way and I do it my way and that's the end of it. Propping a bottle in his mouth isn't anything more then feeding the baby and I wouldn't be comfortable doing it either.  I personally wouldn't want my kids to see me bottle feeding a child or learning that it was OK to pass of their responsibilities to others just because they can.  This is not anything to do with formula, it's ALL about responsibility and the way we bond with babies.  I don't bond with bottles, I bond with play and other child care duties.  I don't expect anyone to breastfeed (def not formula feed if I am able) my babies I don't expect to feed anyone elses babies.  Period.

[Pynki]

Originally Posted by fyrebloom 

Wow, there is SO much nastiness on this thread!  Yikes!  You'd think she was trying to starve her nephew!  When we breastfeed we do it all.  There is no dad helping (unless we pump.... much more of a PITA then feeding baby at the tap) there is only mom and her breasts.  There is this attitude that if you formula feed you can just pawn the baby off to the nearest set of arms and it's "an honor" to feed them smelly staining dairy product.  What is wrong with saying no?  What is wrong with saying you feed your child just as I fed mine, you do it your way and I do it my way and that's the end of it. Propping a bottle in his mouth isn't anything more then feeding the baby and I wouldn't be comfortable doing it either.  I personally wouldn't want my kids to see me bottle feeding a child or learning that it was OK to pass of their responsibilities to others just because they can.  This is not anything to do with formula, it's ALL about responsibility and the way we bond with babies.  I don't bond with bottles, I bond with play and other child care duties.  I don't expect anyone to breastfeed (def not formula feed if I am able) my babies I don't expect to feed anyone elses babies.  Period.

Wow.  Talk about nastiness in one post.   So, in your previous post the parents are trying to share something special, and now they are pawning the baby off and trying to dodge their responsibilities.  And just as an FYI:  Babies don't bond to bottles as a general course of action either ,at least not any more than my children were bonded with my breasts.  They DO bond with the person FEEDING them regardless of the way it is done. 

But, all because they let someone else feed their infant they're irresponsible bad influences?  Really? Well, huh.  That's... interesting.