Dog that nips at DD will now become the breeding dog?!

[Ldavis24]

So for those of you (many of you) who read about my mother's doberman that has nipped DD more than once here is a little update/spinoff from that thread.

We went and visited over the weekend. It was OK... I told my mom how uncomfortable I am with the dog around DD and told her that I want them kept separate because DD loves this dog and wants to pet it all the time. So the dog was either outside or gated most of the time we were there. I won't lie there were a couple times when the dog was in the same room as a DD, passing by each other etc. Everytime DD got NEAR the dog it's whole body language changed, it averted it's head from DD, ears went back, refused to make eye contact etc. Very disturbing body language to me. I actually grabbed DD away at one point and said "that is it"... They weren't near each other for the rest of the weekend but apparently I had to let that happen just so my mom could see the problem for what it is. The dog has issues. DD is NOT safe around the dog at all. It doesn't even like DD getting near it and it was very very obvious.

I honestly wanted to ask them about getting rid of the dog but didn't go there at this point because they said something else that absolutely floored me. "The vet cleared Jewel (the dog) for being bred!!" My mom is so excited and they are going to breed her as soon as they find a decent stud. 

I am disgusted. This dog is the result of bad breeding IMO and they are going to pass down the dog's bad lines and weak nerves to more puppies. I just feel like it is the stupidest decision they could make. Forget the fact that breeding contributes to over population (whether you agree with this theory or not lots of backyard bred puppies end up as dogs in shelters, just a fact). I didn't even know what to say to my mom about it. I just went home and told DH and he is equally mortified at the idea of this dog having puppies. 

I don't trust it at all and next time we go up that dog will NOT be allowed out in the house while DD is there. That is for certain, it's behavior was just way way too concerning. My mom still thinks I am too "uptight" and too "nervous" and that the dog "loves" DD blah blah blah. Not happening. If they want us to come visit the dog will be LOCKED in another room. Period. The whole time. 

Now as far as the breeding of this dog...What do I even say to that? It is a BAD idea. A really bad idea. I was trying to think of how I could word it because the bottom line is I can't CONTROL what they do with the dog no matter how bad of an idea I think it is. Would you even tell them how wrong you think it is? My mom is pretty clueless she doesn't understand why I don't even want the dog around DD...To her credit my mom's GF notices the dog's strange behavior around DD and while she doesn't say it I think she knows there is a problem there. Both of them though think it's a great idea to breed the dog

[Katielady]

Ugh, that is so frustrating! People often have such blind spots for their animals. I imagine she's motivated by selfish reasons (wanting to have cute puppies in the house) rather than a genuine feeling that this dog's gene pool is great.

All you can do is continue to stick to your guns about the dog not being in the same room as your dd. And if that's not enforced (in my experience people who've said they'd keep their dog locked up around my kids always seem to let them out) you might have to stop going over there. Sucky situation all around.

[RabbitMomma]

Ugh, that's annoying to say the least. My mother in law is also thinking about breeding her poorly bred Chihuahua who nips. I really have to hold my tongue sometimes because I feel so, so strongly about leaving breeding to the experts. It's simply not right to contribute to more poorly bred dogs, breeding purebreds is HARD to do, especially if you want healthy, sound dogs.

Here is an awesome article that goes into just how hard it is to breed responsibly:

http://sonic.net/~cdlcruz/GPCC/library/coleart.htm

After all that's said and done, I think you should help your mom to understand that these puppies she's helping to bring into the world are hers for life, which is a huge responsibility. Not only does your mom's dog need a vet appointment, but she needs to have a hip score done, eye tests, thyroid tests, and blood work done in order to make sure the dog is okay to breed. Maybe if you let your mom know this, she will have second thoughts?

I honestly think that few people realise just how hard breeding is, and how much money you lose from it instead of gain. I think providing your mom with some information (maybe show her the above article) about Dobermans, their health problems, and how difficult they are to breed, that she will reconsider?

Good luck anyway, I feel your pain!

[Ldavis24]

the vet has already done the initial clearance for breeding. This dog has been in and out of the vet since she was a baby with various ailments so they weren't even sure they could breed her until she went through her first heat...

I don't even want to think about how this dog would react if she thought her pups were threatened...

Would it be so horrible to demand that we won't come visit unless the dog is completely gone for the duration?? I'd secretly love for them to rehome the dog but that ain't happening.

[limabean]

Ugh, that's too bad. The whole nipping issue aside (not that it's insignificant at all), irresponsible breeding is one of my pet peeves. It's sad to watch people make that decision and then have to see the fallout when all that happens is that there are yet MORE unwanted/unhealthy dogs in the world. 

[mcgee]

You can't force someone to get rid of their dog. You can, however, choose not to visit their home if the dog is around. If you believe this dog is a threat to your child, then calmly tell your mother that you are not comfortable having the dog around your child. She is welcome to visit you in your home or somewhere else, but that you will not be able to visit her as long as the dog is around.

[Ldavis24]

Originally Posted by limabean 

Ugh, that's too bad. The whole nipping issue aside (not that it's insignificant at all), irresponsible breeding is one of my pet peeves. It's sad to watch people make that decision and then have to see the fallout when all that happens is that there are yet MORE unwanted/unhealthy dogs in the world. 

oh yeah it's an issue of mine as well. Poorly bred dobermans...those are exactly the kind of dogs that end up shelters by 2 years old and end up euthanized there. Sigh...They aren't even interested in the money but gosh aren't new puppies just the cutest. She said something along the lines of "oh DD will just love playing with tiny puppies" In my head I was thinking "right and I'm going to let my daughter around your dog who already has issues with DD just when the thing has given birth to puppies." I wish I'd said it. Ah well I have about a month to discuss it with my mom and make it really really clear the expectations I have about our visits...

Oh, btw, I know I can't MAKE my mother get rid of a dog...It's more like wishful thinking that they would.

[RabbitMomma]

Maybe if you suggest having a temperament test of the dog and warmly remind her that temperament is often handed down from mother to pups? Over here German Shepherds are so overbred, they're really popular in our area and you see loads of poorly bred GSDs and once in a blue moon a nice one. Their lines are ruined so much, and it's such a shame because not only does it ruin the temperament but it also creates huge health problems for the dogs.

I would tell your mom that you won't be taking your daughter over to see the puppies because you're concerned about her dog's reaction.

[SkylarVT]

I am just popping in for a second before I have to go work, but you may want to show your mom this list of health testing requirements by the DPCA, (national breed club): http://www.caninehealthinfo.org/brdreqs.html?breed=dp

Here is a list of general health problems in the breed: http://dpca.org/breed/breed_health.htm

Your mom's vet is not qualified to asses the dog's suitability for breeding. She would need to have the dog see a Cardiologist, an eye specialist, (yearly), and send x-rays to the OFA for review in addition to blood testing for thyroid and testing clotting. I would also look up "Puppy Lemon Law" and your state. She may be financially responsible if she produces a puppy with health problems. Here in California breeders are required to reimburse for up to 150% of the purchase price in vet bills if a puppy has a congenital health problem. Also, I seem to remember that your mom's dog has some urinary issues that resolved recently? A lot of those issues are genetic and can be passed on, (like tucked vulva, weak pelvic floor issues causing "leaking", etc.). You mom may be less likely to breed iof she finds out that it can cost her serious money if she produces unhealthy dogs.

[mamayogibear]

You should suggest they check to be sure the dog isn't just 'cleared' for breeding but is also sound and get it a Temperment Test and CGC to check for any behavioral issues which she seems to have. You should also suggest that they get the dog OFA hip and elbow certifications and screened for VonWilderbrands and SAS heart diseases. I don't know too much about Dobies but there are additional health problems that may crop up from irresponsible breeding.  Also is the dog a show dog? Does she have any obedience, tracking or agility titles that shows she will contribute to the gene pool? Perhaps they should look into joining a local Doberman Club or Kennel Club to get more information on how to ensure their dog is actually suitable for breeding instead of just a vet check saying she is okay, to my understanding the vet can say a dog is cleared for breeding as long as it is up to date on its shots and has a basic health certificate...

[Ldavis24]

Originally Posted by SkylarVT 

I am just popping in for a second before I have to go work, but you may want to show your mom this list of health testing requirements by the DPCA, (national breed club): http://www.caninehealthinfo.org/brdreqs.html?breed=dp

Here is a list of general health problems in the breed: http://dpca.org/breed/breed_health.htm

Your mom's vet is not qualified to asses the dog's suitability for breeding. She would need to have the dog see a Cardiologist, an eye specialist, (yearly), and send x-rays to the OFA for review in addition to blood testing for thyroid and testing clotting. I would also look up "Puppy Lemon Law" and your state. She may be financially responsible if she produces a puppy with health problems. Here in California breeders are required to reimburse for up to 150% of the purchase price in vet bills if a puppy has a congenital health problem. Also, I seem to remember that your mom's dog has some urinary issues that resolved recently? A lot of those issues are genetic and can be passed on, (like tucked vulva, weak pelvic floor issues causing "leaking", etc.). You mom may be less likely to breed iof she finds out that it can cost her serious money if she produces unhealthy dogs.

Originally Posted by mamayogibear 

You should suggest they check to be sure the dog isn't just 'cleared' for breeding but is also sound and get it a Temperment Test and CGC to check for any behavioral issues which she seems to have. You should also suggest that they get the dog OFA hip and elbow certifications and screened for VonWilderbrands and SAS heart diseases. I don't know too much about Dobies but there are additional health problems that may crop up from irresponsible breeding.  Also is the dog a show dog? Does she have any obedience, tracking or agility titles that shows she will contribute to the gene pool? Perhaps they should look into joining a local Doberman Club or Kennel Club to get more information on how to ensure their dog is actually suitable for breeding instead of just a vet check saying she is okay, to my understanding the vet can say a dog is cleared for breeding as long as it is up to date on its shots and has a basic health certificate...

thank you both for these great suggestions I am actually making a list of all these points you bring up to talk to her about coming at it from a strictly concerned about future puppies health and some issues with their dog...

Yes this dog has had urinary issues literally since they got her. Those issues seem to be resolved but who really knows, I imagine they are genetic since she had them from pretty much, also the fact that her mother flat out rejected her, which is so rare should be a huge red flag as another PP pointed out (or was it the other thread??)

They don't belong to any clubs, the dog isn't AKC, she certainly hasn't been shown at all and I KNOW she would fail a temprmant test. The problem with asking her to look into all the stuff is that it costs money and they are cheap cheap cheap. I know they won't pay for all that stuff but I will try anyway. It's worth a shot.