WAS THE OTHER PARENT OUT OF LINE? I FOUND IT WAS RUDE - Page 2

[contactmaya]

Originally Posted by journeymom 

OP, you say the one mom 'disciplined' your child. How so?

THE MOM CAME OVER TO MY SON, AND WAVED A FINGER, EXPLAINING THAT PUSHING WAS NOT OK, AND SPENT A FEW MINUTES AT IT. IN RETROSPECT, I THINK SHE MAY HAVE BEEN A PRESCHOOL TEACHER, AND DISCIPLINING LITTLE 2YOS WAS A KNEE JERK REACTION

  On the other hand I wouldn't shush another mom. That's rude.  OP your intentions were good and certainly were not rude.

THANKYOU. I THINK SHUSHING  IS RUDE.  ITS THAT SIMPLE. THE LANGUAGE BARRIER OR CULTURAL DIFFERENCE IS THE ONLY POSSIBLE EXCUSE.  I WONDER IN WHICH CULTURE SHUSHING WOULD BE CONSIDERED ACCEPTABLE?  DEFINITELY NOT  IN JAPAN OR INDONESIA, AND DEFINITELY NOT IN THE US, UK, CANADA OR AUSTRALIA. NOT IN FRANCE, NOT IN GERMANY. DONT KNOW ABOUT THE REST.

ACTUALLY, I POSTED THIS QUESTION,  BECAUSE THERE IS A BIGGER QUESTION THAT IT BRINGS UP, NAMELY, ABOUT THE THRESHOLD OF ACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR BETWEEN PARENTS/OTHER PARENTS/ AND RANDOM STRANGERS.  FOR EG, THERE WAS A RECENT THREAD ABOUT PEOPLE COMMENTING ON BIG FAMILIES, OR STRANGERS ASKING ABOUT FATHERS, AND SITUATIONS WHERE KIDS BEHAVE IN WAYS THAT MAY OR MAY NOT INFRINGE ON THE COMFORT OF STRANGERS, AND WHOSE NEEDS YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO PUT FIRST? (NAOMI ALDORT SAYS LET THE STRANGER SPEAK UP IF THEY NEED TO, BUT AS A PARENT THINK OF YOUR CHILD) THERES ALOT OF ETHICAL QUANDRIES THAT COME UP IN THE PARENTING WORLD.  LIFE IS DEFINITELY MORE COMPLICATED. 

[Ldavis24]

it's scary to post here because people disagree with you??

I don't think anyone was mean about what they said here...from what you described it's just ironic that you don't feel like you were doing something that you later complained about..Toddlers are TOUGH it can be really difficult for a parent when someone interferes in a teaching moment even when that person is trying to mean well.

[contactmaya]

I THINK THE TWO SITUATIONS WERE COMPETELY DIFFERENT. IM NOT GOING TO ARGUE ABOUT THAT. I WASNT TRYING TO DISCIPLINE OR 'PARENT' THE CRYING 2YO, I WAS OFFERING A SOLUTION. I SIMPLY REPEATED WHAT I HAD SAID TO THE MOTHER, SINCE SHE WASNT THERE THE FIRST TIME I SAID IT. 

OTHER SITUATION, WOMAN CAME OVER AND DISCIPLINED MY 2YO RIGHT AFTER I HANDLED IT.

COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, I DONT AGREE WITH MOST OF THE POSTERS, AND OF COURSE, ITS NOT NICE TO BE CALLED RUDE.  BUT LETS FORGIVE AND FORGET. NO HARD FEELINGS HERE.

BUT  BY WAY OF EXPLANATION,  IT IS SCARY WHEN PEOPLE COME AT YOU UNEXPECTEDLY. I DIDNT THINK I WAS RUDE, AND I WASNT ASKING WHETHER OR NOT I WAS RUDE. I DID ASK, WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE?  MOST DIDNT ANSWER THAT QUESTION.

I WELCOME ANY CONSTRUCTIVE RESPONSES, BUT DONT WANT TO DEBATE WHETHER OR NOT I WAS RUDE. IF ANYTHING, I WAS TOO POLITE, AND MAYBE NEED ED TO STAND UP FOR MYSELF IN BOTH SITUATIONS.   MAYBE NOT.

[new2this]

Well you did ask what do you think as well as what would you do. So people commented on what they thought. 

Since she was speaking Russian I still stand by the shushing to be more of a language barrier. Either way. 

What I would have done in the first situation if I was buying a toy I would have been okay time to stop playing with this and picked it up and purchased it. And be done with it. 

The second situation I would have looked at the person and said I have this, thank you. And been done with it.  

[grumpybear]

I guess for me, in the first situation, I would have been frustrated if I my child were having a mini-meltdown over some toy and another person interfered with the situation that I was already handling. However the situation was before, the point is, I am handling it now and would appreciate the space to do so. Any other interference whether it's in a helpful spirit or not, would just be noise to me and compounds the situation.

How would I have handled it? I've been in similar situations. If the parent had asked me if it was ok for their child to keep playing with the toy, I would say yes. But if the parent chose to engage the child alone, I would butt out.

The second situation, yes definitely rude.

[One_Girl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by contactmaya 

THE MOM CAME OVER TO MY SON, AND WAVED A FINGER, EXPLAINING THAT PUSHING WAS NOT OK, AND SPENT A FEW MINUTES AT IT. IN RETROSPECT, I THINK SHE MAY HAVE BEEN A PRESCHOOL TEACHER, AND DISCIPLINING LITTLE 2YOS WAS A KNEE JERK REACTION

  On the other hand I wouldn't shush another mom. That's rude.  OP your intentions were good and certainly were not rude.

THANKYOU. I THINK SHUSHING  IS RUDE.  ITS THAT SIMPLE. THE LANGUAGE BARRIER OR CULTURAL DIFFERENCE IS THE ONLY POSSIBLE EXCUSE.  I WONDER IN WHICH CULTURE SHUSHING WOULD BE CONSIDERED ACCEPTABLE?  DEFINITELY NOT  IN JAPAN OR INDONESIA, AND DEFINITELY NOT IN THE US, UK, CANADA OR AUSTRALIA. NOT IN FRANCE, NOT IN GERMANY. DONT KNOW ABOUT THE REST.

ACTUALLY, I POSTED THIS QUESTION,  BECAUSE THERE IS A BIGGER QUESTION THAT IT BRINGS UP, NAMELY, ABOUT THE THRESHOLD OF ACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR BETWEEN PARENTS/OTHER PARENTS/ AND RANDOM STRANGERS.  FOR EG, THERE WAS A RECENT THREAD ABOUT PEOPLE COMMENTING ON BIG FAMILIES, OR STRANGERS ASKING ABOUT FATHERS, AND SITUATIONS WHERE KIDS BEHAVE IN WAYS THAT MAY OR MAY NOT INFRINGE ON THE COMFORT OF STRANGERS, AND WHOSE NEEDS YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO PUT FIRST? (NAOMI ALDORT SAYS LET THE STRANGER SPEAK UP IF THEY NEED TO, BUT AS A PARENT THINK OF YOUR CHILD) THERES ALOT OF ETHICAL QUANDRIES THAT COME UP IN THE PARENTING WORLD.  LIFE IS DEFINITELY MORE COMPLICATED. 

I think that what is acceptable depends on the region you are living in and the norms.  I live in a part of the US where people are very self sufficient and independent.  Interfering with our neighbors, other parents, random strangers, etc... is just not an acceptable thing to most people in this area.  In areas of the US where there is more of a conformist culture that may not be the norm though.  There just isn't one clear way to look at a situation like this because it really depends on the culture you come from and how you view each action in terms of acceptability through the lens of your cultural beliefs.  Even in the US the answers you get will be different because each region has some very significant cultural beliefs.  I would never have thought this was the case until going from one side of the country to the other and seeing those differences first hand.  I think there is a tribe area here that people can post on.  You may get more relevant answers by posting there. 

[Viola]

I always find shushing rude.  My husband will do it to me at times if it's important that he hear something.  Drives me nuts!  I know it's not personal, he just needs to communicate quickly that he needs silence, but it annoys me.  She probably just thought it would be easier for her child not to have to separate from the toy again, and she didn't want him to hear the offer.  Maybe the language was an issue, I would have used a sentence to communicate this thought, but she might not have been able to.  Or maybe it's just not rude to her.  I've had people from other cultures say things to me that I find rude, and I've probably offended a few people myself.  Or maybe she was a little annoyed to boot, hard to say.

In the second situation, darn, that really gets my goat.  I have had people attempt to verbally discipline my children, and I realize it's part of living in the world, but the other part of living in the world is having to deal with the consequences of your rudeness.  So I would have said, "You're out of line, I'm handling this" and left.  I think this situation was different from the first situation where you were trying to make an offer to the mother that she might have found helpful, from an adult disciplining your child in front of you.

[Lisa1970]

The first situation, you were out of line. The mother clearly did not want her child to continue to play with it and was throwing a tantrum and you interfered with her parenting. The 2nd situation, the tables were turned. You were trying to discipline your child and the other mother was the one interfering. 

[MamaofLiam]

As to who was rude, and who was right or wrong, I don't know. I think it seems more like a scenario of miscommunication (esp in the 1st scenario). I do know I hate being shushed. It really bothers me and it would make me bristle. 

[Shami]

Maybe a little off topic, but my dh is from another country and I was misunderstanding his mom for a week due to a cultural movement of the head.  They do this head tilt, tilting right and left and right and left quickly.  It's not a nod.  It's not a yes or no nod.  It's a quick back and forth tilt, hard to explain online.   In the US this movement means,  "yeah, yeah, whatever...I don't really agree with you, but i guess you are entitled to your opinion".  In his country the head tilting right and left means, "okay, sure, that's fine".

So all the while I thought MIL disagreed with me on many things, but she was agreeing!   Shushing could mean something else.  Or maybe she was shushing her kid, but happened to be looking at you.  Since you don't know Russian it could be easily misunderstood.  How do you know that she even understood what you were saying?

As far as what i would have done...prob. the same thing you did.  These things happen in a split second and you have to make decisions.  I usually find my self speechless more often than not.  Maybe I'm just not quick on my feet.

[Amatullah0]

I agree with the shushing being a language barrier. I've had to choose between "shhhhh" or "tsssk" and physically separating MIL from DS before. He was tantruming, and she was trying to pick him up to bribe him with something. I chose to put my hand on her arm and lightly push it away. She got really upset, and left, but she got the message, and DS calmed down in a matter of minutes. 

"Shhhh" seems really weird to me though, and in part because I partially speak MIL's language, it seems even stranger. "ssst" or "tsssk" seem like they would make more sense. But it's really hard when you don't have the words to explain why you don't want someone interfering with your parenting when you don't speak the language. I'm sure she thought she was trying to help, but honestly, he was halfway calmed down before she came in the room, and got all worked up again (similar to your case, because the child was probably just going to get all worked up again about the toy when you decided it was time to leave, no point in making a kid go through that twice!)

[meemee]

Originally Posted by contactmaya 

 I THINK SHUSHING  IS RUDE.  ITS THAT SIMPLE. THE LANGUAGE BARRIER OR CULTURAL DIFFERENCE IS THE ONLY POSSIBLE EXCUSE.  I WONDER IN WHICH CULTURE SHUSHING WOULD BE CONSIDERED ACCEPTABLE?  DEFINITELY NOT  IN JAPAN OR INDONESIA, AND DEFINITELY NOT IN THE US, UK, CANADA OR AUSTRALIA. NOT IN FRANCE, NOT IN GERMANY. DONT KNOW ABOUT THE REST.

in either of ur situation i would not be upset. its a cultural situation. also what matters is the intent of the shush. a smart ass shush gets my goat. but a hurred sush would be ok with me esp. if they were culturally from a different area. 

yes in my culture in asia where i grew up - shush is not = shut up. shush = a quick be quiet. 

the second situation. there are some groups here in the US - some from hawaii - where in their family depending on teh relationship a child has many mothers - aunt, gma (cant remember details) are moms and have the right to discipline the child. 

when others have disciplined my child - if i agree with them, i gently repeat the same thing to my child. if i dont agree i tell the person politely thanks for sharing their point of view but i'll explain to my child. yes i have told other parents to stop disciplining my child because i dont share their parenting philosophy. 

however i think you and i come from very different philosophical approach to parenting and disciplining. i feel my dd belongs to the world and everyone has the right to discipline her. so i cant really see you and me agreeing. 

[MamaofLiam]

Originally Posted by meemee 

however i think you and i come from very different philosophical approach to parenting and disciplining. i feel my dd belongs to the world and everyone has the right to discipline her. so i cant really see you and me agreeing. 

That's a really interesting point/perspective and one I've never thought about. So do you always agree with the person who is disciplining your child? Or do you sometimes disagree? And if you do disagree, what do you do when that happens? I find this intriguing. 

[limabean]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MamaofLiam 
That's a really interesting point/perspective and one I've never thought about. So do you always agree with the person who is disciplining your child? Or do you sometimes disagree? And if you do disagree, what do you do when that happens? I find this intriguing. 

The poster you quoted answered that in her post:

Originally Posted by meemee 

when others have disciplined my child - if i agree with them, i gently repeat the same thing to my child. if i dont agree i tell the person politely thanks for sharing their point of view but i'll explain to my child. yes i have told other parents to stop disciplining my child because i dont share their parenting philosophy. 

[MamaofLiam]

Originally Posted by limabean 

Quote:

The poster you quoted answered that in her post:

Thanks for pointing that out. I don't know how I missed that. 

[meemee]

Originally Posted by MamaofLiam 

 And if you do disagree, what do you do when that happens? I find this intriguing. 

so one of my roommates 'friends' was over. a parent whose idea is children are pests so she sends them to bed early so she doesnt have to put up with them. she saw my roommate discipline my child and joined in with saying something snarky. so i told her 'please dont say anything to my dd. i will say it when i see the need to.'

dd is in a chopping mode. how to cut things really fine. so she chopped an apple and kept it in the fridge for two days and then roommate finally ate it. we are all on v. v. limited budget and dd has been experimenting with food a lot. so roommate wanted to tell dd food is expensive not to waste it. and i told her no dont do that. we are already so restricted. i dont want to bring up money all the time. i want her to respect food and eat it - not chop it up and then leave it in the fridge.

dd has grown up listening to others even when i am around. she knows when she goes to others houses she has to follow their rules. so just coz i allowed her to use the cd player at 10 months old doesnt mean others will allow that. so if she wants to change the music i would tell her she needs to ask the person whose cd player it was.

i have never ever had anyone say anything 'wrong or mean' to dd. but i have had her be upset with what they said and how they said it. and i would sit and talk to her and listen to her and then slowly while she recovers from being upset point out why the person said what they did and then try to see it from their point of view. she has had to deal with comments from people who have no experience with children and so expect a lot. so when i try to guess why the person says what they did - it makes sense to her and she understands.

being the super sensitive person she is - taking this stance has made her be able to accept people for who they are. in 3rd grade it has helped her handle bullies, talk to the teacher herself and handle it on her own without me taking a stance. in fact she updated and told me blow by blow but she absolutely forbade me to talk to the teacher or do anything about it.

[contactmaya]

Quote:

Originally Posted by meemee 
yes in my culture in asia where i grew up - shush is not = shut up. shush = a quick be quietI

 THINK THE SAME COULD BE SAID IN A MAINSTREAM AMERICAN CULTURE.  I THINK THE CONTEXT USUALLY EXPLAINS THE INTENTION OF THE 'SHUSH', ....USUALLY.

AS FOR OTHERS DISCIPLINING MY KIDS, YES. THAT AGAIN CAN HAPPEN AND IT ISNT APROBLEM FOR ME. I HAVE HAD GRANDMOTHERLY TYPE WOMEN, USUALLY FROM A DIFFERENT CULTURE, DISCIPLING MY CHILD, AND ACTUALLY, IT WAS NICE, BECAUSE SHE WAS EMPHASISING MY OWN DISCIPLINE.  AND I FOUND IT NICE THAT MY DS COULD SEE THAT I WASNT THE ONLY PERSON WHO HAD PROBLEMS WITH HIS BEHAVIOR. IN A SITUATION LIKE THAT, I USUALLY SMILE AND SAY THANKYOU. SO EVEN THAT CAN BE A MATTER OF INTERPRETATION.  I FELT IN THE SITUATION I DESCRIBED, IT WASNT LIKE THIS. ALSO, SHE WAS FROM T HE SAME CULTURE AND GENERATION  AS ME. SHE WAS ALSO THE MOTHER OF THE SON WHO WAS ATTACKED BY MINE, RATHER THAN AN IMPARTIAL BYSTANDER.

Originally Posted by meemee 
 . 

the second situation. there are some groups here in the US - some from hawaii - where in their family depending on teh relationship a child has many mothers - aunt, gma (cant remember details) are moms and have the right to discipline the child. 

when others have disciplined my child - if i agree with them, i gently repeat the same thing to my child. if i dont agree i tell the person politely thanks for sharing their point of view but i'll explain to my child. yes i have told other parents to stop disciplining my child because i dont share their parenting philosophy. 

however i think you and i come from very different philosophical approach to parenting and disciplining. i feel my dd belongs to the world and everyone has the right to discipline her. so i cant really see you and me agreeing. 

[HeliMom]

I'm not trying to be snarky but if you have completely made your mind up about the situation as far as the other person's motivations and actions (rude) and you've made up your mind about your actions (not rude), and that these two situations are completely different,  what kind of advice are you looking for?  

  I think one of the best ways we can learn to get along with others  is to try to work out how we are alike. How were you and that mom in the consignment shop similar?  Even if they are not the same exactly there are similarities. You felt offended when the other mom shushed you, so you can recognize that that is not a choice you'd like to make if someone was acting contrary to the type of involvement you wanted at the time. Such as that other parent disciplining your child, when you felt you were handling it.  So you can reflect that a short curt response does not feel good to the other party involved, even if it is effected in getting them to stop the offending action. 

Then you might reflect on how you were alike with the over zealous disciplining parent (OZDP)t.  Again not exactly the same, but similar. In the consignment shop you felt that the interaction that was occurring between parent and child could use some additional input from you.  You may have felt your actions were benign, but clearly the other mom didn't feel that way.  I very much doubt the OZDP felt like they were doing anything other than helping, clearly you didn't feel that way.   You already know it sucks to be reprimanded for what feels like offering helpful input, but you still want to stop someone from interfering with a situation between you and your child that is going well. So that's really your quandary.   In the first situation, there's not much you can do in response to a curt dismissive shush, aside from move on and maybe talk to your child about how you felt it was rude and use it as a teachable moment to come up with other ways of saying  "No, but thanks anyway" , then maybe you can use those answers to inform your response when in the second type of situation.

I think it's hard to react appropriately at all times and I try my best to work hard to give people the benefit of the doubt, as I would hope they would give me.  I am by no way this rational in the heat of the moment.