Struggling Sleepers Tribe

[LittleBirdy]

Alright mamas, we're scattered about in different places (July 2010 chats, 8-10 months sleep regression thread, etc.) but let's all come together here and support each other as we go through this challenging phase in our babe's lives.  (Key word: phase.  For some of us, a long hellish exhausting phase with seemingly no end in site but STILL, just a phase!)

It sort of reminds me of the TTC forum, anybody hang out there when they were trying to get pregnant?  We can all commiserate here until we each get our BFSTTN (that would be Big Fat Sleeping Through The Night) instead of our BFP's.

So come out, all of you.  Grab a cup of coffee, prop your eyelids open with some toothpicks, and share your story.

Me: DS is 9.5 months old.  Slept like a dream for the first 3.5 months, waking only to eat.  By 8 weeks or so he was doing nice 5 or 6 hour stretches.  Slept through the night exactly once on October 17, 2010.  Hit the 4 month sleep regression and we've been in sleep hell ever since - if he sleeps a 4 hour stretch I start to worry that he's dead.  We cosleep.  My recent (small) success is that he finally no longer needs his Woombie.  Current frustration is no time in the evening for myself.  Last night he went down at 7:08 and then at 7:15, he coughed and it woke him up.  I didn't get him back down until 8.  I feel like I haven't seen my husband in weeks, and it seriously seems inconceivable to me that he will ever sleep through.

[sere234]

Ick!!!

My 8.5 mo has started sleeping better the last 3 nights!!! Better as in: bed around 8, wake every 30 minutes for 1-2 hours, sleep till 12-1ish, sleep till 5ish, nurse sleep till 7-8. This is heaven to me:)

What I changed: at his midnight waking I nurse him, change his diaper to wake him (or really pretend to since he is usually dry until 4-5:00), and nurse again. Then he will sleep 3-4 hours straight!!! GLEEEE!!! I guess he really is very hungry at night but falls asleep before filling up his tummy. At least he's not waking every 1-3 hours anymore like he was for months!

And yes, once we hit the 4 month regression, all hell broke loose! When Caden was 1 week old he was sleeping 6-8 hours straight, 3 months old and he'd wake 2-3 times a night.

Not so much anymore....

Also, naps are starting to get funky. He wakes up every 30 minutes though he used to only do this at the beginning of his nighttime sleep. So right now I'm holding him until he's been sleeping for at least 30 minutes:)

[callahansmama]

The only thing that keeps me going some days is knowing that it's not just me!! Thanks for this thread:):)

Ds is almost 12 months and he has always been a poor sleeper. He is restless, doesn't settle easily and wakes often. He was doing 4-5 hour stretches before 4 months, since then it has been 2-3 hours at most. I try not to nurse him at every waking but he does drink quite a bit so I don't want to deny him. We think that he has gluten and dairy issues too so I don't want to limit night nursings as his diet isn't as high calorie as it could be. We don't cosleep because he seems to sleep better on his own but if I can't get him to go back down in his crib (some nights he cries as soon as he hits the mattress, lather, rinse and repeat), I take him into the spare bed with me and if I am lucky he will fitfully sleep for 3-4 hours. He wakes often at 5 am (or earlier) to poop but his wake times vary from 5 - 7 so his naps are all over the place too but he sort of follows the 2-3-4 pattern. He fights sleep and I rock him or sway in the Ergo to get him down. He is starting to nap longer stretches!! Used to be 30 minutes max but for the last month or so he sometimes even naps 2 hours - usually 1-1.5 - twice a day. He almost never wakes up happy :( I LOVE those times but they are few and far between. He is usually still sleepy and grumpy for a bit after he wakes up:( I have gotten used to the sleep deprivation and am not as upset about it anymore but I look like crap with bags under my eyes. I am returning to work to teach morning kindergarten in August so I am hoping that he will clean up his act by then. I am thinking of night weaning him but don't have the energy to try yet. Yawn.

[sunwise]

Originally Posted by LittleBirdy 

Me: DS is 9.5 months old.  Slept like a dream for the first 3.5 months, waking only to eat.  By 8 weeks or so he was doing nice 5 or 6 hour stretches.  Slept through the night exactly once on October 17, 2010.  Hit the 4 month sleep regression and we've been in sleep hell ever since - if he sleeps a 4 hour stretch I start to worry that he's dead.  We cosleep.  My recent (small) success is that he finally no longer needs his Woombie.  Current frustration is no time in the evening for myself.  Last night he went down at 7:08 and then at 7:15, he coughed and it woke him up.  I didn't get him back down until 8.  I feel like I haven't seen my husband in weeks, and it seriously seems inconceivable to me that he will ever sleep through.

This is basically my exact story, except DS is 8.5 months, never used a Woombie, and he had 2 nights where he slept through, December 10 and 11, 2010. The past 2 days have been relatively restful, although it's amazing how much my definition of a "good" night has changed since last December (that's when our sleep started to go downhill). I remember one night when my son was sleeping well, and I was unhappy because he woke up TWO times in one night. (I was used to only one night waking.) Nowadays, if he only woke two times, I would be ecstatic!

I tend to go to sleep at the same time as DS just to maximize my sleep. But that means I basically haven't had any evening time to do anything for months, and my husband and I only get to spend time together on the rare occasions that we can get together for lunch when DS is at daycare. I don't complain because I think we are handling things the best way possible, but I look forward to the day when I have my evenings back and can get a few solid hours of sleep in a row!

[LittleBirdy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunwise 

This is basically my exact story, except DS is 8.5 months, never used a Woombie, and he had 2 nights where he slept through, December 10 and 11, 2010. The past 2 days have been relatively restful, although it's amazing how much my definition of a "good" night has changed since last December (that's when our sleep started to go downhill). I remember one night when my son was sleeping well, and I was unhappy because he woke up TWO times in one night. (I was used to only one night waking.) Nowadays, if he only woke two times, I would be ecstatic!

I tend to go to sleep at the same time as DS just to maximize my sleep. But that means I basically haven't had any evening time to do anything for months, and my husband and I only get to spend time together on the rare occasions that we can get together for lunch when DS is at daycare. I don't complain because I think we are handling things the best way possible, but I look forward to the day when I have my evenings back and can get a few solid hours of sleep in a row!

We are sooo in the same boat.  DH and I are taking tomorrow off and DS is still going to daycare.  We have no plans, except that at some point during the day we're actually going to have s-e-x!  And I would give anything to have my evenings back.  I can't imagine what it's like to have a baby that STTN... if not for this sleep stuff parenting this kid would be a walk in the park!

Last night we may have gotten a 5 hours stretch.  Either that or I was sleeping reaaallly deeply.  Usually when DS wakes I roll over/switch him to the other breast, glance at the clock, rearrange the covers and fall back asleep.  I'm not awake for very long but in the morning I can usually remember what time it was when I looked at the clock at various points in the night.  Last night I got up to pee at 10 and nursed DS back to sleep, then rolled over with my back to him.  Usually he doesn't like this and wakes up soon after, but the next thing I knew I looked at the clock at it was 3:00!  I'm going to try it again tonight but I'm not getting my hopes up.
 

[whozeyermamma]

Thank you so for this! I started the "sleep boot camp" thread a while ago. Pfah. That didn't go anywhere (for me anyway.)

I was just saying THREE of the same things you gals are:

1. I can't imagine how this is ever going to get better

2. I can't imagine how EASY it would be if I had a babe who slept!

3. I haven't seen my husband in what seems like months.

DS (10 mo) goes down around 7:30 (if I miss that window - he's up till 9.) He'll wake about 8:30 for a quick snack, then up at 10, 12, 2, 4, up for the day at 6. I sleep with him in the big bed, DH sleeps with older DD (yet another sleep fighter) or on couch.

The problem is that at some of those wakings, he'll do a quick nurse and go back down - but sometimes he won't - he'll want to sleep curled in the nursing position - so I'm sitting up or he just wakes up and fusses/cries or he's just up and not tired. Somtimes it's teethign, sometimes I think it's a developmental thing (he's trying to walk like crazy) - sometimes he's got a sensitive tummy and something is bothering his GI system.

I was just thinking about posting here b/c I'm so SICK of people telling me " oh just let him cry,"  - ferberize him! You'll be doing him a favor so he can get some real sleep.

I have no idea what we can to do try to fix this. 

[LittleBirdy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by whozeyermamma 

I was just thinking about posting here b/c I'm so SICK of people telling me " oh just let him cry,"  - ferberize him! You'll be doing him a favor so he can get some real sleep.

I have no idea what we can to do try to fix this. 

I see a DO who specializes in alternative & complimentary medicine.  I went to see him because I was so so sick and I was sure he would understand why I couldn't take anything heavy duty (cough syrup with codeine, etc.) because of having a cosleeping, nightwaking babe.  He asked me if I "ever just let him scream through it" and that it would be a "survival skill he'd have for life".  I nearly died!  Stick to your guns mama... if it does not seem like the right thing to do, don't do it.

As far as fixing it, I've been helped immensely by accepting that this is normal (or within the range of normal) and that there are little things that I can do it to tweak things but ultimately he has to do it on his own.  So now I focus on what makes ME the most comfortable and gets me the most sleep.  Which is cosleeping and DH sleeping in the guest room.

[broodymama]

Originally Posted by LittleBirdy 
Me: DS is 9.5 months old.  Slept like a dream for the first 3.5 months, waking only to eat.  By 8 weeks or so he was doing nice 5 or 6 hour stretches.  Slept through the night exactly once on October 17, 2010.  Hit the 4 month sleep regression and we've been in sleep hell ever since - if he sleeps a 4 hour stretch I start to worry that he's dead. 

This sounds like almost 11 month old DS2.  For the first 4.5 months he slept like a dream, it was wonderful.  Then it changed, and in October he started waking up.  Not just a few times a night to nurse (that's normal, I could deal with that), but every 30 minutes, all night, every night.  There were nights when the only thing stopping me from hurling myself out the bedroom window at 3 am was the fact that it is a VERY skinny window and I would get stuck, necessitating a call to the Fire Department to pry my sleep-deprived butt out of the window.  I had already been dairy-free and soy-free since he was about a week old (all of my kids had dairy & soy sensitivities), but in February I went on the total elimination diet to see if there were any other foods bothering him.  Eggs, the first food I reintroduced after the 2 weeks elimination, seemed to bother him so I cut those out.  His sleep improved moderately, I was no longer unsafe to drive and I could function.

It's been a rough, rough road.  If anyone else tells me "oh, I just sleep through the night nursings" then I'm going to do something unspeakably horrible to them.  I've coslept with all my kids, this isn't something new and unheard of to me, but these nightwakings are in an entirely different category.  And the oh-so-helpful "nap while the baby naps" doesn't cut it either, or else my older 3 will gleefully dismantle the house if I fall asleep.  One day at a time, one night at a time.  It's always more frustrating in the middle of the night, though, that's when it's the hardest to deal with.

[Terrilein]

I am so with you, ladies!

DS is almost 10 months and has always slept poorly, but it escalated to utter crap just recently. I solo-parent during the week and get completely frustrated evenings because I have no one to pass the baby off to so that I can have a moment to myself, shower, read a book, or come here. I have no life and DP and his family are not sympathetic. I should CIO him properly and then everyone will be happy again. Ugh.

Anyhow, I have been losing my mind here of late. Last night I freaked out again and pushed the pack'n'play out of the bedroom and into the next room and left ds there to holler all he wanted to. He wouldn't sleep, wouldn't nurse, was crawling all over me and the bed and whining. It was 2:30 am. My dd (10 yo) woke up, checked on ds and then kicked my butt out of bed. But after crying up a storm, he was exhausted and then finally fell asleep. Which is how he always falls asleep anyways - huge, dramatic, out of control fussy evening followed my a conk out at the breast (minus my desperatation).

Well, this message took 45 minutes to write and I've got to go because he woke up AGAIN after I tried putting him down after he fell asleep at the breast AGAIN.

[whozeyermamma]

Originally Posted by Red Sonja 

There were nights when the only thing stopping me from hurling myself out the bedroom window at 3 am was the fact that it is a VERY skinny window and I would get stuck, necessitating a call to the Fire Department to pry my sleep-deprived butt out of the window. 

Ok; that made me laugh so hard I felt a little better. After a really bad night I sent DH this expletive-laced email and his response had this subject line: Please don't kill my son.

Originally Posted by LittleBirdy 

Quote:

As far as fixing it, I've been helped immensely by accepting that this is normal (or within the range of normal) and that there are little things that I can do it to tweak things but ultimately he has to do it on his own.  So now I focus on what makes ME the most comfortable and gets me the most sleep.  Which is cosleeping and DH sleeping in the guest room.

This is very good advice! I took a nap with him this morning (which I can thankyouthankyouthankyou do b/c DD is in school,) b/c even though I had tons of crap that needed to get done I knew I needed it.

[ClairesMama]

Oh wow, it is great to know I am not alone!  Our baby girl is 9 months old.  So many things are on hold/ignored right now because of the importance of her sleep and the fact that she doesn't sleep well alone.  It is nice to hear from other mamas who are equally (or more) tired but not interested in "cry-it-out," which just feels 100% wrong to me.

[sunwise]

One of my coworkers shared this link on Facebook today - it's a book that we could probably all use!

http://goo.gl/O3eoY

[LittleBirdy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrilein 

I am so with you, ladies!

DS is almost 10 months and has always slept poorly, but it escalated to utter crap just recently. I solo-parent during the week and get completely frustrated evenings because I have no one to pass the baby off to so that I can have a moment to myself, shower, read a book, or come here. I have no life and DP and his family are not sympathetic. I should CIO him properly and then everyone will be happy again. Ugh.

Anyhow, I have been losing my mind here of late. Last night I freaked out again and pushed the pack'n'play out of the bedroom and into the next room and left ds there to holler all he wanted to. He wouldn't sleep, wouldn't nurse, was crawling all over me and the bed and whining. It was 2:30 am. My dd (10 yo) woke up, checked on ds and then kicked my butt out of bed. But after crying up a storm, he was exhausted and then finally fell asleep. Which is how he always falls asleep anyways - huge, dramatic, out of control fussy evening followed my a conk out at the breast (minus my desperatation).

Well, this message took 45 minutes to write and I've got to go because he woke up AGAIN after I tried putting him down after he fell asleep at the breast AGAIN.

Terrilein how are you holding up today??  I was thinking about you.  I know you've wrote before about your struggles with DS and I can't imagine going through it alone.  Your description of how your son falls asleep makes me think of this post: http://www.askmoxie.org/2006/06/babies_and_cio.html.  Maybe he is a "tension decreaser"?  (And please don't misread this as just another person telling you to CIO!!  I am most definitely not.  I just thought the information might be useful.)

Today I interviewed a cleaning person to do housekeeping a few times a month (DH and I both work).  I don't know why I felt the need to go into detail about the exact sleeping arrangements of my household.  (DH sleeps on a double in the room where DS's unused crib is; I sleep on a queen on the floor in our bedroom which is next to the cosleeper that DS also refuses to sleep in, so it does look a little odd to an oustider.)  I think it was cause part of me wanted to put the facts out there lest she make her own assumptions which are worse.  I think another part of me thought she seemed pretty crunchy and maybe she'd say, "Oh sleeping with your baby is so good for them!"  She was the type who talks a lot and she said she slept with her babies but then made some comment about "Be careful with that" and "It's ok to tell them no".  I dunno, today I suddenly feel like I did in the newborn weeks where I don't know what the hell I'm doing and after a long time of not doing this I find myself blaming a lack of parenting skills for the poor sleep :(

[Terrilein]

Wow, that was a really excellent article, LittleBirdy! But I still am not sure about ds. I think he's a mix of both. He often just NEEDS to escalate and have a full-on tantrum to release all his energy before he can sleep. When he was much smaller I would put him down in his crib when he was tired and he'd often fuss to sleep. But not always. Sometimes he would cry and cry and cry non-stop if I tried just putting him down in his bed and left. So if he's not out after 2 minutes or so, I go get him. But he doesn't fuss to sleep anymore. Most times these days he nurses down. Last night ds came home and ds got totally overexcited at his return and could hardly contain himself. He wouldn't nurse and was climbing/crawling all over me, at least he didn't cry/scream. DP ended up rocking him to sleep. And the night before last he actually slept 5 hours. I think he slept a fair bit last night, too, after I gave him a homeopathic suppository.

ETA: And to other readers: no I'm not interested in trying CIO so please refrain from sending me PM's with CIO advice, thank you!

[LittleBirdy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrilein 

Wow, that was a really excellent article, LittleBirdy! But I still am not sure about ds. I think he's a mix of both. He often just NEEDS to escalate and have a full-on tantrum to release all his energy before he can sleep. When he was much smaller I would put him down in his crib when he was tired and he'd often fuss to sleep. But not always. Sometimes he would cry and cry and cry non-stop if I tried just putting him down in his bed and left. So if he's not out after 2 minutes or so, I go get him. But he doesn't fuss to sleep anymore. Most times these days he nurses down. Last night ds came home and ds got totally overexcited at his return and could hardly contain himself. He wouldn't nurse and was climbing/crawling all over me, at least he didn't cry/scream. DP ended up rocking him to sleep. And the night before last he actually slept 5 hours. I think he slept a fair bit last night, too, after I gave him a homeopathic suppository.

ETA: And to other readers: no I'm not interested in trying CIO so please refrain from sending me PM's with CIO advice, thank you!

She has a lot of really great stuff about sleep, and about tension increasers vs. tension decreasers.  Mine is a hybrid too.  I really like her blog because she's fairly crunchy/AP/whatever label you want to throw on it (she coslept, used cloth diapers, slings, etc.) but she is very anti-dogma.  And funny!

Hooray for the 5 hours!!  We're approaching the 10 month mark, maybe things will start to settle down eh?
 

[sunwise]

Hey ladies,

I want to resurrect this thread and see how things are going with you. Any changes or improvements? None on my end, other than the fact that we are going to change our sleeping arrangements (me and DS moving to his bedroom -  DH staying in our bedroom) so that I can hopefully, sometime within the next few months, start to buckle down and work on the sleep issues! The biggest challenge for me is doing anything besides nursing to address the night wakings - I have never done anything beyond trying to get him to take a paci, and I always abandon that strategy in a few seconds if he doesn't want it.

Another thing - lately DS hasn't been nursing to sleep as regularly as before. Now he often nurses for a few minutes, then rolls over, sits up, and wants to crawl around and play. (It was so much easier when he wasn't mobile!!) I usually just let him do so, but I just sit quietly and try to not engage with him in a "fun" way. I just leave the boob accessible so he can come back and nurse if he wants. Sometimes he comes back and nurses to sleep; other times he plays for awhile before he slows down and falls asleep on his own (well, not completely on his own - he always uses a paci in those cases). Have any of you experienced this? How many hours is your baby usually in bed each night? I am starting to wonder if I need to put him down earlier for sleep, but since I WOH I feel like I have so few hours with him on weekdays.

[LittleBirdy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunwise 

Another thing - lately DS hasn't been nursing to sleep as regularly as before. Now he often nurses for a few minutes, then rolls over, sits up, and wants to crawl around and play. (It was so much easier when he wasn't mobile!!) I usually just let him do so, but I just sit quietly and try to not engage with him in a "fun" way. I just leave the boob accessible so he can come back and nurse if he wants. Sometimes he comes back and nurses to sleep; other times he plays for awhile before he slows down and falls asleep on his own (well, not completely on his own - he always uses a paci in those cases). Have any of you experienced this? How many hours is your baby usually in bed each night? I am starting to wonder if I need to put him down earlier for sleep, but since I WOH I feel like I have so few hours with him on weekdays.

We went through this very same thing and it drove me nuts.  What was a huge help was nursing him to sleep while rocking him in the rocking chair.  I think the motion of rocking sort of satisfied his craving to be moving, yet it didn't prevent him from falling asleep the way crawling around did.

[Terrilein]

OK, I wanted to bump this one back up as we had a horrible night again. I've been getting my oldest down at 8 pm (she's 10) and then I chill and read while I nurse the baby down. He usually falls asleep by 9. HOWEVER, he will only sleep for an hour and is up and bouncing all over the place at 10 pm. So I've been going to bed when he gets up to nurse him back down for the night. This week DP is home and we were wanting to watch some TV together in the evening. Well, the baby woke up at about 10 as usual and wouldn't nurse back down. It pretty much ruined the evening for us. And DP kept complaining and making me feel like I'm a total failure because I can't get ds to sleep and I won't let him cio our baby. Any suggestions?

[sunwise]

Hi there! Are you saying that your DS initially nurses down but then wakes up and is actually *awake* (that is, not just fussing and needing to be nursed down again)? (just want to make sure I am understanding correctly.) We are sort of going through something similar - Max is waking up so soon after I nurse him to sleep that I really have to stay with him after I put him to bed. I usually just sit in bed reading during that time. I do miss spending time with my husband! But Max will nurse back down after he wakes up, so it is not exactly the same.

One thing that has helped us a little recently is moving his bedtime earlier - we usually nurse down around 7:00 now. That has helped somewhat - it has at least made the initial nursing down easier. But this hasn't solved all our problems - we are still having too many wakings!

Wish I had better advice to offer!

[Terrilein]

yeah, he's wide awake and chirpy, running around and having a ball while my DP gives me the stink eye. I tried taking him to bed with me last night and he would not go down for the longest time. He was climbing all over the place, laughing and just not ready to sleep. I don't get it!