Does GD Breed Wild Children? - Page 7

[purplerose]

Some kids just won't believe people are hurt and misunderstood the joke if they can't see the hurt.  They just won't.. and then they grow into adults who just expect everyone to stop being 'oversensitive' when things get misunderstood and can potentially have a lot of social problems because of it.

How do you deal with those types of adults? Is there ever a chance of getting through? I have someone very close to me exactly like that...he can't handle emotions from other people (not even love) and his wife takes antianxiety meds to keep from being "emotional". He can't see when he has hurt someone or why someone would get upset when he doesn't know to STOP teasing or whatever. He doesn't seem to see the need to apologize. Life for me is much easier being an emotional person and letting it all hang out, than trying to deal with someone like that.

[hakeber]

Originally Posted by purplerose 

How do you deal with those types of adults? Is there ever a chance of getting through? I have someone very close to me exactly like that...he can't handle emotions from other people (not even love) and his wife takes antianxiety meds to keep from being "emotional". He can't see when he has hurt someone or why someone would get upset when he doesn't know to STOP teasing or whatever. He doesn't seem to see the need to apologize. Life for me is much easier being an emotional person and letting it all hang out, than trying to deal with someone like that.

I generally wouldn't spend time with people like that.  Alternatively, you can approach the matter more pragmatically, explaining that an apology is an act that would help you feel like your need for respect was being met, and without an apology you are going to meet that need for respect by respecting yourself enough not to be near him.  If mid teasing you can say "I am going to stop you there to ask you to either cease this behavior or I'm going to go before I hear something I can't unhear."  calmly, cooly, and with total seriousness.

I think empathy is difficult to teach, but most people do not want to upset people so rather than get into a battle of wills over making them recognize and validate your pain (which they may not be able to do), just give them the steps to make it better.  Don't expect them to listen or empathize or say "there there, you're right, I was wrong and hurtful."  Just tell them how to fix it if they can or walk away if they cannot.

When DS is insensitive and if he says "It's just a joke mommy!"  I generally respond with a logical consequence such as walking away from him and going to another room to do something else explaining that I don't hang out with people who think it is funny to call someone names or play tricks on their friends and he shouldn't either.

So far this has put the kabosh on the "i'm just kidding!" phase. 

ETA:  I don't need him to believe that he is being hurtful, or see that I am or others are hurt, I just need him to make an informed decision about how he is going to use his words by being exposed to the logical social consequences of being mean.

[phathui5]

Originally Posted by mamakay 

Are time outs and rewards "not GD?"

Some people would say that they aren't.

I am comfortable with time outs and rewards being things that we use in our family (and we have four pleasant children).

[coffeegirl]

Originally Posted by mamakay 

Are time outs and rewards "not GD?"

One thing I think I'm learning from this thread is that GD is a lot like AP....it's sort of an umbrella concept that encompasses many different ideas. The only constants (that I can figure out....someone more knowledgeable can correct me if I'm wrong) are: no physical/corporal punishment and no punishments or means of discipline that utilize cruelty, shaming, yelling, etc. Basically any means of discipline that is effective because it instills fear into a child would be verboten under the GD "umbrella".

[mamakay]

Originally Posted by coffeegirl 

One thing I think I'm learning from this thread is that GD is a lot like AP....it's sort of an umbrella concept that encompasses many different ideas. The only constants (that I can figure out....someone more knowledgeable can correct me if I'm wrong) are: no physical/corporal punishment and no punishments or means of discipline that utilize cruelty, shaming, yelling, etc. Basically any means of discipline that is effective because it instills fear into a child would be verboten under the GD "umbrella".

Well, my kids are "afraid" of getting grounded. Like, my (naturally "spirited") 7 yo? I don't think he really believes he would be at a higher risk of death/injury/whatever if he were to wander miles away. I'm pretty sure his primary reason for staying within his wandering boundaries (basically, close enough to where if he screams, I can hear him) is fear of getting grounded, at this point in his intellectual development.

My (naturally "mellow") 3 yo is kind of "afraid" of timeout, even tho our timeouts are not timed (usually 2 seconds), not intentionally punitive, and are simply used as a way of "resetting" a situation. She's "afraid" of getting sent to timeout vs leaving the dog alone, or whatever it is that I need her to do/not do. With her, I probably could do CL, but I'd honestly be in a bad mood rather often if several times a day I had to spend 20 minutes trying to reason her out of messing with the dog when the dog was showing signs of wanting to be left alone (or whatever.) I don't think she really understands/believes that the dog does not actually like it when she puts her fingers in his nose and stuff.

I *feel* like I practice GD. Talking and explaining and reasoning is always my first response. I think the idea that the only "currency" parents have, with even the most challenging kids, is  "fear of being hit by someone much bigger than you" ...is kinda silly. I do expect a certain amount of "obedience", but I don't expect (or even want) it to be unquestioning. I say "Because I said so" so infrequently (once a year?) that when I say it, it freaks my kid out and he knows something really serious/unusual is going on.

[coffeegirl]

Originally Posted by mamakay 

Well, my kids are "afraid" of getting grounded. Like, my (naturally "spirited") 7 yo? I don't think he really believes he would be at a higher risk of death/injury/whatever if he were to wander miles away. I'm pretty sure his primary reason for staying within his wandering boundaries (basically, close enough to where if he screams, I can hear him) is fear of getting grounded, at this point in his intellectual development.

My (naturally "mellow") 3 yo is kind of "afraid" of timeout, even tho our timeouts are not timed (usually 2 seconds), not intentionally punitive, and are simply used as a way of "resetting" a situation. She's "afraid" of getting sent to timeout vs leaving the dog alone, or whatever it is that I need her to do/not do. With her, I probably could do CL, but I'd honestly be in a bad mood rather often if several times a day I had to spend 20 minutes trying to reason her out of messing with the dog when the dog was showing signs of wanting to be left alone (or whatever.) I don't think she really understands/believes that the dog does not actually like it when she puts her fingers in his nose and stuff.

I *feel* like I practice GD. Talking and explaining and reasoning is always my first response. I think the idea that the only "currency" parents have, with even the most challenging kids, is  "fear of being hit by someone much bigger than you" ...is kinda silly. I do expect a certain amount of "obedience", but I don't expect (or even want) it to be unquestioning. I say "Because I said so" so infrequently (once a year?) that when I say it, it freaks my kid out and he knows something really serious/unusual is going on.

What I posted is just my perception of what GD is, most of my info coming from this board. It may be incorrect or perhaps too limited. Any time you use punishments, there's going to be a certain amount of fear involved. I personally believe that a certain amount of fear of authority is healthy and good. We're afraid of speeding, for instance, even if there's no other cars around to cause a wreck, because we know that it's against the law and we could be ticketed. The "fear of God" that religious folk talk about is seen as a good thing by those who believe in it. Etc., etc.

I've seen many, many mamas on this board explain that the fear issue is exactly why they don't use punitive discipline, and they consider themselves practitioners of GD.

Maybe Gentle Discipline is too broad to be defined in any way beyond "no screaming or yelling and no physical/corporal means of discipline"?

[zacsmum]

My understanding of gentle discipline does not involve fear of any kind of punishment - grounding, time out, whatever.  It involves encouraging cooperation based on your relationship with your child and his trust in you that the limits you set are in his best interest, empathising with him when he gets upset about a limit he doesn't like, but still standing firm.  There shouldn't be too much reasoning or explanations - just being clear and simple about what is expected and following through when needed.

I personally don't want my child living in fear of what will happen if he does/doesn't do the right thing.  I want him to do the right thing because he can see the benefit of it for himself (eg better relationships with others, not getting hurt, etc).

[mamazee]

I do think of GD as an umbrella term that means basically no physical punishment, no humiliating, no abusive language, that kind of thing. I personally don't punish, but punishment can certainly be done gently. I think it's good we have people who practice a variety of styles of GD so when someone is looking for suggestions, they get a variety of answers and can find something that feels right to them. A greater number of opinions and views can give us all greater perspective.