What's the difference?

[ZakareyasMama]

So obviously I have some time before DS has to do school, but as a former public school teacher and current education graduate student, I'm very interested in alternative schooling methods. I have heard of homeschooling of course and about cooperatives in which kids group together to have special activities. I guess there must be hundreds of different curriculums out there. Is there a good place to decide which one is right for you? I have never heard of unschooling until I started reading mothering. What exactly is the difference between HS and US? Is US just HS without a specific curriculum?

Thanks for your help! 

[tankgirl73]

[quote]Is US just HS without a specific curriculum?[/quote]

Not quite.  Lots of homeschoolers don't use specific curricula -- maybe piecing together resources from different sources, or making their own programmes, etc etc -- but wouldn't call themselves unschoolers.

Unschooling is more specifically, no deliberate SCHOOLING.  It's entirely child-led.  You could also call it 'life learning' -- the idea is you just live your lives, the kids will follow their natural interests, and anything they need to learn to accomplish their goals, they'll pick up along the way.  It doesn't mean there's no curriculum at all, necessarily, because a child might decide they want to learn something in particular and ask for workbooks on it, or something.  But the parent never imposes a particular workbook on a child, a particular course or subject or anything like that.  You just live your life.

Many folks are scared of unschooling for fear of 'holes', but it's well demonstrated throughout our society that ALL educations leave 'holes', and that all of us end up having to catch up on things we missed but need for our adult lives or careers (whether because we were never taught it at all, or never applied ourselves at the time). As adults, we forget the things we 'learned' that ended up being irrelevant, and deliberately learn the stuff we need.  Unschooling takes the view that you may as well skip all the wasted time of those 12 years and just let the person decide for themselves what and when they want to learn anything.  It's based on the fundamental principle that human beings WANT to learn.  We have a natural drive and desire to get information and skills.  Young kids (through preschool age) display this every day!  They're curious little sponges.  When we impose our educational systems on them, however, and REQUIRE them to learn certain things at certain times in specific ways that we determine, rather than led by their natural drive, then they learn that education is an unpleasant chore.  When we don't interfere in their natural curiosity, it continues to blossom.  There are oodles of unschooled kids that are now happy adults leading productive lives, so while it's not for everybody, as a concept it's well-proven.

The opposite end of the spectrum is school-at-home.  This would be using specific (usually graded) curriculum, with specific set 'school time', probably a 'school room' or space in the home, and following mostly traditional school pedagogical methods.  This is the most comfortable for many parents at first, since it's what we're familiar with -- and even with its weaknesses, it still has an advantage over public schooling in that it will take far less time each day and you get the one-on-one tutoring aspect.  

But most homeschoolers fall somewhere in the middle of that spectrum.  We'll opt for more freedom than school-at-home (eg following a students' natural pace rather than a grade schedule) but more structure than unschooling (eg, especially for kids with LD's, like ADHD, who require externally imposed structure since their own self-regulation doesn't function properly).

Some philosophies/methods you might want to look into in your research:

Charlotte Mason: learning is based on literature, 'living books', and nature study, rather than textbooks; narration and expression of learning rather than fill-in-the-blanks

Montessori: child-led learning, based on the belief that children will naturally gravitate towards activities that develop whatever brain development they're currently undergoing; used specific activities and methodologies that parents/teachers set up and demonstrate to the kids; heavy focus on practical skills, manipulatives.

Waldorf: heavy emphasis on nature, arts, crafts, music, and creative play; belief in delayed academics; use of structured routines but not so much by the clock, but following a natural 'rhythm' to the day, month, seasons.

Classical Education:  emphasis on 3 stages of child development, grammar, logic, and rhetoric; value placed on memorization, learning Latin, etc.

None of these depend on a specific curriculum, but you will find many resources out there that offer curriculum based on these philosophies.  So one of the first things you might want to do is really study them all and think about what connect with you the most.  Then as your child grows, you can also get an idea of what style he might be best suited to.  Once you have an idea of what kind of style you want to follow, THEN you can narrow down your research into curriculum options.

One of the beauties of homeschooling, though, is that if you try something and it doesn't work for you, you can change!  You're not locked into it for the next 12 years.  So don't worry too much or panic about trying to find the right thing.  Feel it out, get some ideas, then try stuff.  Then change it if you don't like it.  :)

In my own personal experience, I tried to be very 'school at home' with my son, and it was a disaster.  He's ADHD and Asperger's (though I didn't know this at first), so he needs some structure, but not the rigidity I was using.  It took some years of 'undoing' to address the resistance to learning he built up.  We've ended up mostly Charlotte Mason-based with him, with a smattering of Waldorf.  I choose resources that work for independent study, as much as possible.  I give him a schedule and break assignments down into small tasks, then he does all the 'learning' on his own.  I've learned that he does best when he can use the computer, draw his responses rather than write essays, non-traditional math.  

Having learned from my experiences with him, my plan was to be much more unschooley with my younger daughter.  We did a lot of Montessori preschool stuff, she cooks with me, helps with cleaning, is very confident and capable with many practical tasks.  We do a lot of Waldorf-based stuff, stories and crafts and playsilks.  But for all my determination to do delayed academics, at age 2 she was ASKING to do workbooks.  And so (at age 4) we're doing early academics (mostly math, she loves math), but it's still very informed by Waldorf philosophies, not overdoing or pushing, following her and not expecting any particular schedule, emphasizing crafting and handwork, etc.  

A great thing about homeschooling in today's world is that there is SO MUCH online.  It does make a lot to wade through, but you might find homeschool mommy bloggers to be especially useful.  Read a bunch of blogs and you'll get a much better idea of their day-to-day activities, what philosophies people are following and why, which curricula are really popular, which are really innovative, etc etc.  :)

[ZakareyasMama]

Interesting! Thanks for the great explanation. I am familiar with most of these concepts about child-led learning and have tried myself to infuse as much child-led learning in my public school classroom (haha!) My only question is what about college? How do unschooled kids make the transition? 

[moominmamma]

There are tons of ways to make the transition to college if that's what an unschooler wants to do ... GED, "mature student" admissions processes, community college transfer, distance / on-line high schools or credits, unschooling friendly umbrella schools, homeschooler's application with portfolio, part-time high school. My own unschooled 17-year-old dd has done independent study credits through our local public high school and they have been great about translating her life-learning into additional credits so that she has a robust transcript. She's been informally assured acceptance into her college of choice by the head of the program for fall 2012, provided she completes her last handful of independent study credits next year. 

If you're interested in more specifics you could ask over in the unschooling subforum.

Simplistically I draw a distinction between "child-led learning" and "unschooling" as follows.

Child-led learning is where the parent offers certain learning content and structure, based on her perception of the child's interests, needs and inclinations.

Unschooling is where the child requests any learning content and structure, and the parent facilitates as necessary, as requested, in setting it up.

The end result might look the same on a day-to-day basis (both types of kids might end up doing handiwork and crafts inspired by pioneer times, for example) but in child-led learning it was primarily the parent's responsibility to identify, organize and implement that activity. In the unschooling family, the child was the motive force behind the activity.

Miranda

[Dar]

Dear tankgirl73... our wiki section here is woefully underwikied, and I think with a few tweaks your post above would be great as an overview of different homeschooling styles. Just a thought...

My unschooled 18 year old is off to American in DC this fall, with a scholarship. She just found out yesterday that she got into the seminar she wanted, too, based on her essay explained why she chose it. She's been taking college classes for 4 years, beginning with things that interested her (her first class was Beginning Voice and Theatre at the University of Kansas, after doing community theatre for 5 years or so) and then moving on to classes in areas she wasn't so interested in (science and math). She has around 30 college credits now - 9 university credits and the rest community college. She also spent a year in Russia, on a scholarship from the state department.

That's been her path... she loves international stuff and speaks 2 foreign languages (both of which she's learned during the last 3 years - she's more intermediate level than fluent in both but plans to continue with them). When she decided to apply to more selective colleges we looked into what she would need to get there and she jumped through the hoops - SATs, etc. It was some work to get put together, especially since her year in Russia meant we did it all in 5 months rather than a year and a half, but it worked.

When she took her first college class at 14, no one (including the professor) had any idea she wasn't a typical university student until at least halfway through the course, much less a feral unschooler. There were only 20 students, too. It helps to look older than your age, I guess, but she had taken classes in the community before and it wasn't like there are any secrets to how to act in a college classroom. She did have questions about some of the assignments that I was able to help her with, like what kind of heading she should put on her paper or how to structure an essay or what citation format to use, but it was the kind of thing I could sit down and show her and she could handle after that. Except for her most recent algebra class I haven't helped her with any college classes since that first year. I love math and she's not a fan, so I was fine with helping her with that, plus she went to the professor's office hours and the math center on campus a few times, and watched some Khan Academy videos, and found other useful websites. She is very good at finding and using resources - there are really great websites out there now for lots of stuff!

[AAK]

Originally Posted by moominmamma 

Simplistically I draw a distinction between "child-led learning" and "unschooling" as follows.

Child-led learning is where the parent offers certain learning content and structure, based on her perception of the child's interests, needs and inclinations.

Unschooling is where the child requests any learning content and structure, and the parent facilitates as necessary, as requested, in setting it up.

The end result might look the same on a day-to-day basis (both types of kids might end up doing handiwork and crafts inspired by pioneer times, for example) but in child-led learning it was primarily the parent's responsibility to identify, organize and implement that activity. In the unschooling family, the child was the motive force behind the activity.

Miranda

This part always confuses me because I still think of parents that provide a rich learning environment for their children (whether at home, through community events/venues, or through travel), without specifically saying "let's do this today", as unschoolers.  For example:  I have a friend who considers herself an unschooler and they decided to go to Mexico for a few months.  I know that the child will be learning so much about the culture, and he will probably learn lots of Spanish too.  He didn't "ask" to learn Spanish.  The mom did make the decision to go to Mexico.  So, is this "unschool" or "child-led".  I think this is unschool because the learning will "seem" to fall inthe child's lap because of the opportunity created by his mom.

I guess I kinda flip the above def. in my mind.  Child-led to me is the child leading the learning by expressing interest in a topic and then the parent makes an effort to bring them resources and opportunities.   Whereas unschooling to me is literally learning through life.  The parent may see opportunities become available and "make them happen" for the family. . . and everyone will learn from it.  At that point, the child may decide to take it further or not.  And sometimes, the child will want to learn about rocks and the parent will facilitate it.  The family eventually needs food, so either through the garden or the grocery, the child will learn something.  But, the child isn't requesting this type of information.  I think the unschooling mom works very hard at providing a wealth of experience for the child.  That is why there is a difference between "unschooling" and simply "not going to school" in my mind.  

Does that make sense?  For the record, I am not an unschooler.  We are relaxed eclectic, and happy about it.  :-)  

Amy

[moominmamma]

Originally Posted by AAK 

Whereas unschooling to me is literally learning through life.  

I think it is a bit of a misnomer to assume that (as this statement seems to imply) unschooling never involves structured learning, and never involves the use of resources designed to teach specific content or skills. That may be true in the early years, but it tends to change as kids get older and more intentional about their learning needs. If your 11-year-old is writing computer game reviews and wants to use correct punctuation in order to be taken seriously in an on-line user community, and asks for a reference that will help explain and teach what the rules are, that's still unschooling. If your 15-year-old becomes curious about psychiatry after a family friend goes through a miraculous course of ECT therapy and sits down with your old university psychology 101 textbook and reads the whole thing cover to cover, and then challenges herself with the on-line quizzes for a similar course, that's still unschooling. If the motive force is the child's request and the implementation is up to the child, then that's unschooling, regardless of what resources are being used. Unschooled kids themselves tend to think of anything, including textbooks, in the all-encompassing category of "life learning," because they've never made any distinction between life and learning.  

Miranda

[AAK]

@ Miranda  That makes sense.  I wasn't meaning to imply that an "unschooling" child wouldn't ever use resources like textbooks (or anything else for that matter).  I was actually trying hard to say that I think it CAN still be unschooling even if a parent sets up learning opportunities (like a museum visit) simply because it might be interesting--even if the child hasn't ever expressed a specific desire to learn about the exhibits topic.  

In an earlier post it seemed to me that when you said, 

"Child-led learning is where the parent offers certain learning content and structure, based on her perception of the child's interests, needs and inclinations.

Unschooling is where the child requests any learning content and structure, and the parent facilitates as necessary, as requested, in setting it up."

That you were removing any parental initiated experience (like a museum visit) away from unschooling simply because the child didn't request it.

Amy

[moominmamma]

Ah, I see. 
 

Originally Posted by AAK 

That you were removing any parental initiated experience (like a museum visit) away from unschooling simply because the child didn't request it.

No, of course not. I don't think unschooling precludes normal parenting, family activities, travel opportunities, the genuine sharing of interests, stimulating conversations and so on. Just as I might suggest to my husband or a friend that we spend the afternoon canoeing, or attend a string quartet concert, or try dyeing wool together, an unschooling parent would share those things with her children. But she'd share them in a genuine way, rather than in the sense of "doing something to cover music" or "making sure he/she knows this" kind of way. I think that natural learning happens in all families, schooling, homeschooling or unschooling.

When I simplified those two approaches I was thinking more of times when some specific area of learning has been identified as deserving attention. In unschooling that identification and implementation would come primarily from the child. In child-led homeschooling the identification would be likeliest to come from the parent, taking into account the child's interests and readiness.

Miranda

[SundayCrepes]

It seems like the lines between child-led learning and unschooling are blurry. I consider us to be on the unschooling spectrum. There are times when I provide materials for my kids. I really like most of the secular books on the www.sonlight.com booklist. I buy those that I think work for our family and provide them to our kids. If they are interested in reading them, great. If not, they sit on the shelf for possible future use (or not.)

I also have the unschooling Living is Learning Guides by Nancy Plent. http://www.fun-books.com/books/living_is_learning_guides.htm I plan on using them to see if there are any subjects/ideas I wish to present to our kids. For example, a first grade math skill is to count by 2s. I can see making that into a fun game. If my kid balks at it, then I move on for now.

The world is a huge place. Even with high-speed internet access and tons of field trips and books, there are things my kids won't have exposure to through the normal course of life. I consider it my responsibility to introduce my kids to experiences they are unaware of. I know other unschooling folks who feel the same.

[ZakareyasMama]

Okay so at first I was worried I was asking a dumb and obvious question, but this is an interesting conversation! Thanks for all the references, I'll check them out. My practical issue with unschooling would be that my life just isn't interesting or enriching enough to educate my child! lol I would feel the need to go visit more museums and take more trips, watch more documentaries and do more math on paper than I do now. So by adding "educational" activities there is an element of un-natural-ness to the learning process. Then there comes the issue of activity choice. Do we go to an art museum or an aquarium? My decision as the parent will have an impact on what interests they develop. But then as a parent don't I have some rights in what my child learns? It's not like I want to map out his future, but yeah there are some things I'm more interested in so I'd want him to learn about too. I like how you described is SundayCrepes (ooh now I want crepes!) as a spectrum. It seems like complete unschooling at all times is a somewhat impossible ideal that unschoolers strive toward. Assessing your child's readiness is so important as well. I've seen so many kids who were thrown into some concept (usually math, sometimes literacy) before they were ready with complete failure. The child ends up hating and fearing that concept. That's what I want to avoid as much as possible!

[Dar]

Originally Posted by ZakareyasMama 

Okay so at first I was worried I was asking a dumb and obvious question, but this is an interesting conversation! Thanks for all the references, I'll check them out. My practical issue with unschooling would be that my life just isn't interesting or enriching enough to educate my child! lol I would feel the need to go visit more museums and take more trips, watch more documentaries and do more math on paper than I do now. So by adding "educational" activities there is an element of un-natural-ness to the learning process. Then there comes the issue of activity choice. Do we go to an art museum or an aquarium? My decision as the parent will have an impact on what interests they develop. But then as a parent don't I have some rights in what my child learns? It's not like I want to map out his future, but yeah there are some things I'm more interested in so I'd want him to learn about too. I like how you described is SundayCrepes (ooh now I want crepes!) as a spectrum. It seems like complete unschooling at all times is a somewhat impossible ideal that unschoolers strive toward. Assessing your child's readiness is so important as well. I've seen so many kids who were thrown into some concept (usually math, sometimes literacy) before they were ready with complete failure. The child ends up hating and fearing that concept. That's what I want to avoid as much as possible!

I think you raise some good points. I'm not sure the unnatural adding of things ever really came up for us, because I think as your kid gets older and you start thinking of things that would be fun or interesting to do together, a lot of it comes up organically. If your kid is obsessed with dinosaurs and you're flipping the channels and see a show on them, you stop and say, "Oh, hey, you might like this!". Trips and museums are fun things to do with kids, or at least they have been with my kid. That they're "educational" is sort of a byproduct. Even stuff like writing out math came up organically for us - we played a lot of games and Rain would see me adding up scores, for example, and one day said she wanted to do her own herself... so I showed her how I did it.

It's also true that your interests influence your kids' interests. I think that's true for all parents and kids, although maybe more so for unschoolers. I think that's okay... I'm not sure I ever said, "I'm interested in this and think it's important, so you need to learn it" but we spent a lot of time together, and we talked about stuff a lot, and really, it would have been off for her not to learn something about the things that interest me. Sometimes she was okay joining me in things (like the months she spent with me in Tunisia last year - not where she would have chosen, but interesting enough for a month) and sometimes she chose other things. As it has worked out, her interests are really different from mine in general, but there are still things we like to do together ( go to odd museums, for example) and we like each other enough that sometimes being together outweighs what we're actually doing...

[SundayCrepes]

Originally Posted by ZakareyasMama 

My practical issue with unschooling would be that my life just isn't interesting or enriching enough to educate my child! lol I would feel the need to go visit more museums and take more trips, watch more documentaries and do more math on paper than I do now. So by adding "educational" activities there is an element of un-natural-ness to the learning process. Then there comes the issue of activity choice. Do we go to an art museum or an aquarium? 

Since I had kids, I have joined lots of mom/baby then homeschooling groups. I have made many new friends simply so my kids could have more friends. For some people, that would be a normal way of life. For me it is unnatural because I am a bit of a loner. The beauty of having kids is we are stretched to become someone better for the sake of our children. This is especially true for homeschoolers and probably moreso for unschoolers. You explore tons of new places and ideas you wouldn't have done if you were letting someone else teach your kids about the world. I am so excited by all the things I will learn along with my children.

As far as choosing between the art museum or aquarium, if you have the finances for it why not do both? And do them over and over again. Today my son asked, "Why can't we go to the Science Museum more often?" (Because it's 125 miles from our house and expensive. And when we visit my parents there are so many places we like to go that we have to choose which few we'll do. This morning we were heading for home so the adventure was just a quick ride on the lightrail. They loved it.)

We are in a couple different homeschooling groups that do a fair number of field trips. My 2 and 5 year olds have been on more field trips at their young ages than most schooled kids will do in their lives. Many of these trips are things I probably wouldn't do on my own--like the upcoming trip to the optical department at the university or the recent trip to the air and space museum (too military for me, but my kids are too young to pick up on the military aspect, they just liked looking at the airplanes.) Or there are things that I never would have known about--like the miniature horse ranch on the west side of town. Or even the geological scavenger hunt through the local canyon (sadly we missed that due to the gut bug.) But these opportunities present themselves and so we just go. Most of the time the experience is great even if it's something we wouldn't do again.

When I arrange field trips with our unschooling group, I can count on about 30 people showing up (20 kids, 10 adults.) Sometimes we have to schedule two trips since there are so many people. (We split the group for the tour of the airport firestation. The day we went there were only 11 of us so they actually gave us a ride inside the truck. Pretty awesome for my son who loves fire trucks.) And because we're a "school trip" lots of stuff is free or really cheap. Like the trip to the botanical gardens tomorrow costs $10--to be split between all the families. 

Right now your guy is still really little. I'd say join a mom/baby group and just do the activities that feel right for you. With my first we did the mom/baby group, baby time at the library, some sort of baby gymnastics through parks and rec. When he was 18 months we did Music Together (though he found that boring.) We just did stuff that was developmentally appropriate. Through the moms I met at those places we learned about other activities that we grew with. When he was about 2 we experimented with homeschooling groups, but we were just a bit early. Around 4 the homeschooling groups became more relevant for us. Through those groups we just learn about so much going on. Then there's good ol' playdates and time at home to just be.

I did the same thing you are when my son was little. I wanted to get some basic ideas down so that when baby two came along I would have already figured out our homeschooling path and wouldn't try to do it with 2 young kids. That's when I discovered unschooling.

I do highly recommend checking out www.sonlight.com (which I mentioned before.) The books are so good and on so many different subjects. And also, I've gotten great ideas for books here. Like when I wanted to start teaching my son who was only 3 or 4 about history so asked about history books. Someone suggested the picture books based on the little house on the prairie books. My kids LOVE those. And these science experiment books are amazing: http://www.amazon.com/Neil-Ardley/e/B000APHSB4/ref=ntt_athr_dp_pel_1  and, of course, these http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=cat+in+the+hat+learning+library+&x=0&y=0

Every night I get on here and read different ideas people have. I learn so many things that I can offer my kids. And they think it's all fun. Some might argue it's not unschooling when I'm the one offering so much. The term is "strewing." That's what almost every unschooler I know in real life (and I know a lot) do. The 3 shelves (oops, we're up to 4 shelves) of picture books were selected by me. Some are never read and that's fine. Others are falling apart from so much reading. I buy the books, my kids decide which they want to read. http://www.amazon.com/Splitting-Herd-Corral-Odds-Evens/dp/0822574667/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1305415089&sr=1-1 As they get older, they'll guide me in what they want to learn and I can't wait. But I'll still strew. Oh, today we decided to get a small notebook to carry in my purse so that when my son asks questions when we're out and about we can write them down and get on the internet when we're home so we can find the answers. Today's question was how big is Africa. I need to go take him the globe right now to show him. 

ETA: So we got out the globe and looked at the distance between Tucson and Phoenix. Since we just drove it this afternoon, my son knew it was a 2 hour drive. Then we looked at Africa. I asked him how long would it take to drive from the bottom to the top. He said, "40 days." He gets the size. Later he asked me how many servings of meat are in one pig. Huh? He's a confirmed vegetarian at the age of 5. Haven't the foggiest idea what inspired that question. The answer, by the way, is 371. 

Edited by SundayCrepes - 5/14/11 at 4:59pm

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by Dar 
 She did have questions about some of the assignments that I was able to help her with, like what kind of heading she should put on her paper or how to structure an essay or what citation format to use, but it was the kind of thing I could sit down and show her and she could handle after that.

And a lot of colleges assume their incoming freshmen don't know that and are happily surprised at the few who do.

[sapphire_chan]

Definition of unschooling:

If you find yourself, while in the middle of an activity, suddenly realizing that the activity has an educational aspect, and you start worrying whether it is "unschooling" of you to be doing the activity, then you are an unschooling parent and should chill out and carry on.

[sapphire_chan]

And once you've got kids, going to museums and such isn't about learning, it's about sanity.

Choice A: Stay home and pretend to be a mean dinosaur for the 5000000th time

Choice B: Go look at dinosaur fossils in museum.

Choice A: Try to remember high school biology and correctly use and apply the terms.

Choice B: Find a video on YouTube and see pretty butterflies while science talk happens for you!

In the past month, because of going on walks with dd, I've learned:

what red clover mites are, what henbit, canadian cinquefoil, and red oaks look like. I've learned that henbit is in the mint family and that members of the mint family have square stems, wood sorrel isn't a sorrel but is an oxalis (eta did spell it right!) which is 'clover' 'sour' (eta but got that bit wrong), canadian cinquefoil is a rose and is good for digestive troubles, and all are edible. Wood sorrel, which I knew previously looks like clover with heart shaped leaves and 5 petaled-yellow flowers, tastes lemony and is a favorite snack of DD's, nutritionally awesome, but it's a diuretic so not so hot for cosleeping with the tiny bladdered one. Believe you me, going at a toddler's pace really encourages both curiosity and boredom with answering "it's a plant. it's another plant. yep, a plant." 8,238,238 times.

In contrast, my 32 month old has learned to ask "find sorrel Mommy! it tastes like lemonade! we find 1, 2, 3,...1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 sorrels!! Find 10 sorrels Mommy!" And, because of that interest, I've been encouraging her to identify the sorrel in an area where I've already found some, so she can get consistent with identification and more quickly be allowed to have some when she's with another non-wood sorrel spotting adult.

[fritz]

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan 

In the past month, because of going on walks with dd, I've learned:

what red clover mites are, what henbit, canadian cinquefoil, and red oaks look like. I've learned that henbit is in the mint family and that members of the mint family have square stems, wood sorrel isn't a sorrel but is an oxalis (eta did spell it right!) which is 'clover' 'sour' (eta but got that bit wrong), canadian cinquefoil is a rose and is good for digestive troubles, and all are edible. Wood sorrel, which I knew previously looks like clover with heart shaped leaves and 5 petaled-yellow flowers, tastes lemony and is a favorite snack of DD's, nutritionally awesome, but it's a diuretic so not so hot for cosleeping with the tiny bladdered one. Believe you me, going at a toddler's pace really encourages both curiosity and boredom with answering "it's a plant. it's another plant. yep, a plant." 8,238,238 times.

Thank you for this!  We've got wood sorrel growing in our yard, but I had no idea what it was; now I do =).

[Greenmama2]

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan 

And once you've got kids, going to museums and such isn't about learning, it's about sanity.

Choice A: Stay home and pretend to be a mean dinosaur for the 5000000th time

Choice B: Go look at dinosaur fossils in museum.

Choice A: Try to remember high school biology and correctly use and apply the terms.

Choice B: Find a video on YouTube and see pretty butterflies while science talk happens for you!

In the past month, because of going on walks with dd, I've learned:

what red clover mites are, what henbit, canadian cinquefoil, and red oaks look like. I've learned that henbit is in the mint family and that members of the mint family have square stems, wood sorrel isn't a sorrel but is an oxalis (eta did spell it right!) which is 'clover' 'sour' (eta but got that bit wrong), canadian cinquefoil is a rose and is good for digestive troubles, and all are edible. Wood sorrel, which I knew previously looks like clover with heart shaped leaves and 5 petaled-yellow flowers, tastes lemony and is a favorite snack of DD's, nutritionally awesome, but it's a diuretic so not so hot for cosleeping with the tiny bladdered one. Believe you me, going at a toddler's pace really encourages both curiosity and boredom with answering "it's a plant. it's another plant. yep, a plant." 8,238,238 times.

In contrast, my 32 month old has learned to ask "find sorrel Mommy! it tastes like lemonade! we find 1, 2, 3,...1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 sorrels!! Find 10 sorrels Mommy!" And, because of that interest, I've been encouraging her to identify the sorrel in an area where I've already found some, so she can get consistent with identification and more quickly be allowed to have some when she's with another non-wood sorrel spotting adult.

I loved this post. Oh and I love your definition of unschooling too. We have Sorrel planted in our vegie patch & it it DD5's favourite garden snack

[AAK]

This is a great thread.  Thanks for clarifying Miranda.  

I personally identify with relaxed eclectic because as much as "unschooling" interests me, I know that I am not truly an "unschooler".  I have certain expectations of learning for a few subjects.  The rest, I hope to see where interest takes us.  Every once in a while I get insecure about those other subjects and start to look at curriculums.  However, I haven't ever found anything that suits my fancy.  And, now that we have been doing this for a while, my kids are good at being interested in lots of things.  That sounds weird, but it is true.  I am having so much fun learning with my kids.  

Amy

[SweetSilver]

Yes, indeed, "unschooling" means many things to many different people.  Some don't want to be tied down to that definition and prefer "relaxed homeschooler" or "eclectic homeschooler."

     I, for one, define myself as an unschooler.  Yes I get some "puzzle books"  and yes, I definitely introduce some ideas, usually via library books, and sometimes they catch on like fire.  

     Some folks call themselves "radical unschoolers" and bring the child-led concept to other areas of life.  It can be a natural extension of the unschooling concept.

     Originally, I believe John Holt first used the term "unschooling" simply to refer to what is not school.  John Holt's ideology can seem extreme to those not already comfortable with reasons for homeschooling in the first place, and his writings and speeches were ruthless with the ENTIRE concept of school to begin with.  Learning at home was THE natural place for a child to enter the world.

     College is so very different from primary and secondary school.  No one HAS to be there.  You and only you are responsible for the outcome of your education.  That's how I see it.