I am a total GD failure - Page 2

[Pumpkin_Pie]

Originally Posted by GoBecGo 

I have a 5yo who can destroy my determination to be calm and patient and loving within 2 seconds too.  I sympathise but i don't have many ideas since i'm obviously not doing it right anyway.

An illustration of the things i get:

Last month, payday, we went

Bowling

Out to lunch

Swimming

For ice cream

out to dinner

home for 1 hour playing one on one in the garden while the baby slept, then bath, teeth, stories, bed.

At bedtime i was told how unfair it is that no-one ever plays with DD or does anything with her and how she's bored and there's nothing to do in our family.  

Last night i asked her in a supermarket to please let go of the trolley.  She let go for 2 seconds then held on again.  I asked her to let go.  She let go and then got ahold and pulled the trolley to one side.  I asked her sternly to let go.  She let go then got another hold and dragged it into a display.  I growled at her to LET GO NOW and picked up the display.  She told me "you don't tell ME what to do" and walked backwards, while telling me off for telling her to be careful and watch where she was going over her cheek outburst, into a giant metal pillar and banged her head.  At which point she started wailing she'd broken her skull and when i knelt to hug her she headbutted me then told me *I* had made it worse.

It does NOT inspire greater efforts, because actually, i'm out of resources at this point.  Just clinging on and hoping at some point this will be a phase which passes.

No solutions, but I am wondering if anyone has any ideas for issues like these.  My son turned 4 in March and does pretty much this type of thing REGULARLY.  Just today, we were in the grocery store and he grabbed a display that was on wheels and I asked him politely to stop pulling on it and he let go for a second, then pulled it again, and I asked him again to stop pulling.  He let go once more for a second and then suddenly STOOD on the edge of it and nearly toppled the whole thing over on him.  I realize that the ideal thing at this point would be to walk away and do the grocery shopping at another time, but it is not always possible.  Sometimes we just need to have food in the house and I need him to actually listen to what I am asking.  I have NO idea how to help this to happen though.

Also, my son will do the same sort of "you made me hurt myself" thing.  He will somehow get hurt, especially if he is doing something that I asked him not to, and will then scream "YOU MADE THAT HAPPEN AND NOW IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT AND YOU THINK IT IS FUNNY!!" Or something close to that.  It takes everything in me to ask him if he is ok, or if there is any way I can help him, or to even assess the injury so I know if he truly needs help, or just comfort.  I literally just want to walk away at that point and say "Well then, deal with it yourself".  I have NO idea how to handle this one.

I am so interested in this thread and all of the great suggestions so far, I will definitely be following closely!

[mommy212]

I do some of the same, if it makes you feel better. I have thrown my 18 months old son on the bed and left the room. I yell daily or nearly daily. Often times in stead of yelling I will whisper very angrily, usually "shut up, shut up, shut up". I beat myself up for it too. When I get very angry I walk around the house throwing things to slamming doors, but this is less often... The only thing that really works is clenching my teeth for milder cases. Speaking firmly but without yelling (though I am sure the anger still comes through, it is a big improvement) works better than yelling because it doesn't scare him. If he is doing an obnoxious behavior, I give him one try with a gentle correction like "Food doesn't belong on the floor, if you don't want it put it here" or whatever, the next one is "We do not throw food on the floor. If you throw any more I will get your out of her chair and you are done eating." This works because he never throws food until he is full, so I am not using hunger as a punishment or anything. If it is very bad, like he gets worse after the second warning, I will do time out, as much for my sake as his, because it makes me angry when I know he understands what I am asking. This is another thing I dislike but it is better than the alternative, which is yelling and being annoyed and angry. In you case I recommend this, as it gives you a break from the situation.

Have you tried something like, letting him run the show for a few days? If he doesn't want to brush his teeth, let him go. If he throws tantrums at meals, don't make him eat. He will get hungry eventually. Maybe giving him some control will calm him and then you can slowly add in reasonable requests, in a gentle way. I have tried this with kids I babysit and it usually works to calm them.

[KayPea]

Someone else mentioned it, but I just wanted to reinforce the effectiveness of Playful Parenting. That book has been a revelation for me, and absolutely changed my relationship with my daughter. The older she gets, the better it "works". And I know when you are angry and frustrated and want things done in a timely manner is the LAST time you want to start putting on funny voices, or talking to toys or falling on the floor, but seriously, play is kid language, and it is so worthwhile to learn it. 

Playing, and particularly the type of buffoonery that makes an adult seem incompetent, is tonic for power struggles. Kids feel so powerless so they push in any way they can, but if you are acting silly and like you don't know what you're doing, they feel like they have the power by showing you they can do it. Try putting his red fleece on his feet, or on you, and see if he doesn't try and show you how to get it on right (though it's important to try this before any struggles start, because kids can dig in their heels about everything, even play once that wall has started to go up.)

Power struggles can also be a cry for attention, and playing is the best time-in as far as a kid is concerned. Some kids have very big cups to fill (like my daughter) but any extra special play attention really helps. Just think about all the extra time you spend with your son trying to diffuse a situation, and try to spend that same amount of time preemptively doing things together. And play his games. Let him decide what to do, who you will be. Let him boss you around, it will help him work through his power issues. 

And I know this is part of what you are struggling with, but my daughter has a finely tuned antennae to my moods. The sadder/angrier/more annoyed I am, the more she fights me, acts out, bites, kicks and screams. So it's worthwhile to work on your own feelings too, because the happier and more peaceful you are (genuinely, not just what you show to him, because he will be able to tell), the happier and more peaceful he will be. This is an indication of how much you are doing right in your relationship because it shows how attached and connected the two of you are. Have you tried meditation? It really helps with all the letting go that you have to do as a parent.

Oh, and one more book recommendation - have you read Raising Your Spirited Child? So useful, even if you haven't previously considered your son spirited. 

[D_McG]

  Are YOU getting enough sleep?  Is he?  Are you getting enough breaks from each other?  Do you exercise?

YOUR behavior is what I end up doing when I am tired and burnt out.  ITA with the other people's advice about power struggles, etc.

[swd12422]

I feel ya. I'm a yeller, too, and I hate it. It's gotten better since I started following advice similar to all you've gotten here: Playful parenting is the best under stress. If you can be wild and silly to get your frustrated energy out, it will help your LO giggle and feel happy instead of stressed b/c you're yelling. Someone has to break the cycle of tension, and chances are, it's not going to be the kid in most situations. My biggest problem is being conscious of that before things get ugly.

Playing a lot, asking for lots of help, even if it's just opening or closing a door (making a game of doing it gently helps here), throughout the day will help with the big picture of power issues b/c he'll be feeling empowered by helping mommy so much with those things. Ask him to "help" you pick up toys, sort the laundry, clean up a room (your room might be more fun than his own), feed the dog, etc. Sometimes it backfires and I end up more frustrated, like when he dumps the bowl of dog food on the floor, but overall it works. Ask him to choose between things you want him to do. Do you want to put on your shirt first or your shorts? Which shoes do you want? Which jacket should we take, in case you get cold? Not, "You HAVE to wear shoes/jacket/etc." Well, shoes to get outside, but when you're still in the bedroom with him naked, that is not the time for that fight. wait til you're all ready to go, then have the argument about the shoes. The jacket, I don't argue about at all. If he wants to be cold, that's his problem. I have enough other issues to fight with him about (going potty BEFORE he has an accident, for example), so he can win the jacket issue.

[Dancinmommy]

Originally Posted by msmiranda 

I totally understand where you're coming from.  The whole within 30 seconds of waking up thing especially -- my DS1 starts doing things to get on our nerves from the first moment he wakes up.  I also sympathize with yelling so loud your throat is sore -- I don't admit it to many people, but I do this at least once a week.  I have thrown things too.  I'm not proud of it but no one has pushed my buttons like this ever in my life.  I had no idea that I had such limited patience until my son turned 3, and since then, oh lord.  You are not alone!  You've gotten some good suggestions here but I know the fleece thing was just an example and some things are not negotiable (like tooth brushing).  Hang in there!

OMG this is so me!  i understand 100%.  I am reading up on this thread and others because i feel like a terrible parent lately.  The lack of sleep (7 mo old) has really got me too, which makes things a billion times worse.  just wanted to let you know i can commiserate!

[aHikaru]

AE is much like this, but she is the opposite, when it's just her and I, at home or out and about, she is pretty well behaved, but whenever someone else she knows is around, she will whine. I spoke of this to her Waldorf teacher and she told me I need to be firm and take control, which has definitely helped a lot.

Personally, my main issue is that i tend to ignore AE when she whines because it's very easy for me to zone out and relax whenever chaos is going on. But I myself have noticed be consistent, following through and being the authority is what works best, all while being a good example. It's taken me 2 years to find this balance and i'm glad i discovered Waldorf, because it has really centered me.

[rosadesal]

you know, i'm right there with you. dd is almost 4. today put me over the edge (hence the reason i'm here and not in bed, or doing homework, both of which desperately need to be done). i'm tired of the "read this book" or "try this method," and i'm especially tired of the playful parenting advice - it doesn't work for us, and it leaves me feeling humiliated, embarassed, frustrated, and dd still isn't cooperating. i feel like she has zero respect for authority, and i realize that's an adult concept that is ridiculous to expect from a child, but i literally cannot understand why she won't acknowledge that i'm even there. i never would have questioned nor ignored my mother, and she was not a rough parent (ie: no spanking, calm and cool, ran a daycare in our home for 20 some years). "high-needs" makes me want to vomit, i'm tired of all of these labels we place on it - i just want to know what to DO! today we were at the store and she was climbing on the racks and an employee asked her to stop, and i grabbed her by the arm after you know, asking her to stop, telling her to stop, threatening to take away x y or z, and so on. no response. the climbing continued. we left. she's great at school (sometimes refuses to clean up, but responded well when her teacher told me about it and i told her about the teacher-story), great for her dad (we coparent, and have been separated since she was 1 doing weekdays here weekends there), great for my mom....but i am entirely humiliated, frustrated, and more than anything else, exhausted. i go back and forth between questioning my own parenting and questioning my child's brain. UGH. i suppose i'm glad i'm not alone, but i'm feeling totally helpless.

[GoBecGo]

Originally Posted by rosadesal 

you know, i'm right there with you. dd is almost 4. today put me over the edge (hence the reason i'm here and not in bed, or doing homework, both of which desperately need to be done). i'm tired of the "read this book" or "try this method," and i'm especially tired of the playful parenting advice - it doesn't work for us, and it leaves me feeling humiliated, embarassed, frustrated, and dd still isn't cooperating. i feel like she has zero respect for authority, and i realize that's an adult concept that is ridiculous to expect from a child, but i literally cannot understand why she won't acknowledge that i'm even there. i never would have questioned nor ignored my mother, and she was not a rough parent (ie: no spanking, calm and cool, ran a daycare in our home for 20 some years). "high-needs" makes me want to vomit, i'm tired of all of these labels we place on it - i just want to know what to DO! today we were at the store and she was climbing on the racks and an employee asked her to stop, and i grabbed her by the arm after you know, asking her to stop, telling her to stop, threatening to take away x y or z, and so on. no response. the climbing continued. we left. she's great at school (sometimes refuses to clean up, but responded well when her teacher told me about it and i told her about the teacher-story), great for her dad (we coparent, and have been separated since she was 1 doing weekdays here weekends there), great for my mom....but i am entirely humiliated, frustrated, and more than anything else, exhausted. i go back and forth between questioning my own parenting and questioning my child's brain. UGH. i suppose i'm glad i'm not alone, but i'm feeling totally helpless.

My kid is that way too.  Hang on, it is better now she's 5 than it was at 3.  In the store can you put her in the trolley or in an ergo/meitai?  The only way i could shop when DD was 3 was to physically hold onto her at all times, or she too would run off/climb/do craziness.  For her the consequence had to LITERALLY be "you don't do this or i will physically prevent you from doing it" or she couldn't/wouldn't stop.  I'm so sorry you feel helpless.  It isn't you, it isn't your DD's brain.  Once there was a thread asking "describe your LO in one sentence" and i had to say "would make a good adult".  Some of the strongest, most independent, happiest, sanest people were a nightmare to parent simply because of those strengths.  I tell myself every day that my DD might be really hard to "control" right now, but i really don't want her to be easy to "control" in 10 or 20 years from now.  You're doing a great job, she is not your yardstick (a wise woman recently wrote!).  Hold on in there.
 

[rosadesal]

@GoBecGo: I feel you. She's almost 4, and at just over 40 lbs is hard to physically carry, which in turn makes me feel a little terrible. I'm a pretty small person, and I hate that I can't just swing her over my shoulder and say enough is enough. Is there a thread/group for small parents? :)

You're right - we can't measure them based on adult standards, ie: yard stick example. And she will be a great adult, and I want to give her the tools to be a great adult. I feel like we're always on the verge of peace, of solving this disaster zone, and then it all crumbles again, and I can't shake the idea that there must be SOMETHING that will click....so I hold out for that, and on other days, I think it's just hopeless and I wait for when she turns 8. :)

Thanks for the advice. I see in your signature you're coparenting with your older child - would love to know more about it, if you want to PM sometime.

[D_McG]

Originally Posted by rosadesal 

today we were at the store and she was climbing on the racks and an employee asked her to stop, and i grabbed her by the arm after you know, asking her to stop, telling her to stop, threatening to take away x y or z, and so on. no response. the climbing continued. we left. 

Too much talking?

First I guess - why did the employee have to ask her to stop?  (why weren't you on top of the situation).  I am just wondering if maybe you're not 'on top' of her enough.  Then, assuming this is not a first... that kind of thing would get one sharp comment from me and then we'd leave and there would be a consequence for not listening.  Like we'd go straight home instead of going for a treat on the way home or something like we might normally do.  

My 5 year old doesn't act like that anymore but there was a period when I had to be REALLY on top of him and pile on the consequences.  My DD is in the same zone now (she's 2.5).  Yesterday I removed 2 of her toys, locked her bedroom door for the day (so she couldn't get in) and she had to sit out of pool play time for a bit.  Today she is doing MUCH better.  You may have tried all this but for us taking a ZERO ZERO tolerance approach is necessary to sort of establish order in the home.   Even if that means that some days I do nothing but correct them.  But that's literally days.  Not weeks/months like it was when I was more half assed about it.  

Esp when you say she does fine with other people.  I know people say 'oh she just feels safe with you!' but I don't really buy that.  I think kids know what they can get away with. Adults do, too 
 

[swd12422]

This is a very good point. Not to criticize you or downplay your efforts, but really make sure you are being 100% consistent. We have a very good friend with a spirited child. Mom thinks she is the stricter of the two parents and considers herself a hard-ass disciplinarian. However, the kid is just plain wild and NOT a listener. We hear stories similar to the rack-climbing incident on a regular basis. However, when we are together, I notice that there is A LOT of, "Please don't do that. Please stop. Now, honey.... Do you want a timeout? Should we have a timeout? Is it time for a timeout?" And I just feel like screaming, "GIVE THE KID A @$#&*ing TIMEOUT ALREADY!!!" We don't even do timeouts in our family, but if that's her method I'm not going to criticize that. BUT, don't sit there for 20 minutes, letting her ignore Mommy and keep asking THE KID what we should do about all this.  It's so easy to be on the outside and see what's not working right away. But I also know that in the heat of the moment, it's not so obvious to the mom involved.
 

Originally Posted by D_McG 

Too much talking?

First I guess - why did the employee have to ask her to stop?  (why weren't you on top of the situation).  I am just wondering if maybe you're not 'on top' of her enough.  Then, assuming this is not a first... that kind of thing would get one sharp comment from me and then we'd leave and there would be a consequence for not listening.  Like we'd go straight home instead of going for a treat on the way home or something like we might normally do.  

My 5 year old doesn't act like that anymore but there was a period when I had to be REALLY on top of him and pile on the consequences.  My DD is in the same zone now (she's 2.5).  Yesterday I removed 2 of her toys, locked her bedroom door for the day (so she couldn't get in) and she had to sit out of pool play time for a bit.  Today she is doing MUCH better.  You may have tried all this but for us taking a ZERO ZERO tolerance approach is necessary to sort of establish order in the home.   Even if that means that some days I do nothing but correct them.  But that's literally days.  Not weeks/months like it was when I was more half assed about it.  

Esp when you say she does fine with other people.  I know people say 'oh she just feels safe with you!' but I don't really buy that.  I think kids know what they can get away with. Adults do, too 
 

[dauphinette]

Originally Posted by swd12422 

This is a very good point. Not to criticize you or downplay your efforts, but really make sure you are being 100% consistent. We have a very good friend with a spirited child. Mom thinks she is the stricter of the two parents and considers herself a hard-ass disciplinarian. However, the kid is just plain wild and NOT a listener. We hear stories similar to the rack-climbing incident on a regular basis. However, when we are together, I notice that there is A LOT of, "Please don't do that. Please stop. Now, honey.... Do you want a timeout? Should we have a timeout? Is it time for a timeout?" And I just feel like screaming, "GIVE THE KID A @$#&*ing TIMEOUT ALREADY!!!" We don't even do timeouts in our family, but if that's her method I'm not going to criticize that. BUT, don't sit there for 20 minutes, letting her ignore Mommy and keep asking THE KID what we should do about all this.  It's so easy to be on the outside and see what's not working right away. But I also know that in the heat of the moment, it's not so obvious to the mom involved.
 

I guess up until a couple of days ago I thought I was doing the right thing by giving my kiddo the option to self-correct her behavior ie. "do you want to stop doing X on your own or I will give you a time-out" type of thing.  But I think I, also, need to stop asking dd for direction and step up to the plate as the mom.  It has recently come to my attention that I personally haven't been taking total responsibility for my role as parent.  So I thought this comment was interesting because I am guilty of this, or have been but am trying to correct it.

Nothing else to add but that I sympathize with the whole smart-kid-who-is-great-for-everyone-else-but-not-for-me thing, lol!

 

[swd12422]

I don't think there's anything wrong with offering a choice. DS frequently gets a choice on LOTS of things. It's when you don't follow through with the "other" option that you lose credibility. Ask once, NOT 17 times (as my dear friend does)! I thought *I* was doing great by doing the counting: "DS, please go wash your hands, lunch is ready." No response. "That's one. Do it now, please." No response."That's TWO, please go NOW." No response..... (It used to work, I never got past "two" and was so proud of myself, since GD doesn't come naturally to me. Well, that ended and THREE didn't phase him til I started getting loud. Not what I wanted. So I came on here and got lots of good advice from mamas here who said that by 3, you shouldn't be giving so many chances to comply. Once is enough, unless you LIKE repeating yourself. They said say it once, then do it for them (or follow through with whatever consequence you laid out as the choice). And it's the same with everyday stuff like choosing what to wear: Blue shirt or red shirt? Let them choose, but don't sit there all day asking which shirt. Ask once, give them 10 seconds to decide, then let them know you're going to make the choice yourself. This sits much better with me, as I have no tolerance for BS, even if it's coming from an adorable toddler.