Anyone else considering a "low tech" pregnancy? - Page 3

[jmoss70]

I thought the "penta" or more commonly called Quad screen only has a 5% false positive rate?   If that is too high, try integrated first trimester screen for 2% FPR.  Did you pass midwifery school?

[thorn]

There's no such thing as a positive on a screening test, they just give you odds ratios. So while it might give you a very high odds ratio (say, 1:10 chance of an abnormality) there would still be a 9:10 chance that the baby did NOT have that abnormality.  Some might consider that a "false positive" but it is not a diagnostic test.  There is also the opposite, the test could say your baby only has a 1:10,000 chance of an abnormality, and your child could still have that abnormality.

The screening tests are meant to help you make a decision about whether or not to pursue diagnostic testing such as CVS or amnio.  If you know that you would not ever do those tests, there is no point in doing the screening.  Other people want the diagnostic test right from the beginning and don't even do the screening first.

[contactmaya]

BTW, APOLOGIES FOR MY CAPS, WHICH MAKE THIS HARDER TO READ. MY KEYBOARD IS BROKEN. I PROMISE YOU, I AM NOT TRYING TO SHOUT. :-)

MY PROBLEM WITH THE QUAD SCREEN IS PRECISELY THIS-THAT ITS A RISK FACTOR, AND THEY CALCULATE THIS  USING YOUR AGE. SO GUESS WHAT, THE HIGHER YOUR AGE, THE HIGHER YOUR RISK, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEY FIND IN THE ACTUAL TEST.

I WOULD NOT RISK A MISCARRIAGE BY DOING AN AMNIO EITHER. SO THOSE TESTS ARE OUT FOR ME. 

AS FOR THE 20WEEK ULTRASOUND, I ADMIT TO MY  IGNORANCE ON THIS. THE ONLY THING I KNOW IS THEY CAN  SCREEN OUT 80%  PROBABILITY OF DOWN SYNDROME,  BUT NOT A 100%.

WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IS THIS- CAN THE 20 WEEK ULTRASOUND  REVEAL FETAL PROBLEMS THAT COULD BE HELPED WITH SOME KIND OF PRENATAL OR POST NATAL INTERVENTION? IF SO, WHAT CONDITIONS CAN IT DETECT, AND HOW CAN INTERVENTIONS HELP?  I WOULD CERTAINLY DO THIS OR ANY OTHER TEST IF  IT REVEALED THIS INFORMATION.

(SOMEONE MENTIONED  SOMETHING  ABOUT A HEART DEFECT BEING DIAGNOSABLE.  HEART DEFECTS ARE OFTEN ASSOCAITED WITH DOWNS I THINK)

[ablepearl]

The 20 week scan can see the heart.  Ihave had to have two of my babies re-scanned because at the first 20 week scan they didn't get a good image of the heart.  My father's sister died at 6 months because of a congentital heart defect, so we like to make sure the heart is good early on, not that we would terminate but so that if there is a problem we can adress it quickly at birth.

You can also see the kidneys (is that the right way to pluralize kidney?) which will sometimes require some type of action too.

When I get my scan I will also be asking for them to measure the umbilical cord.  With my last birth he had a very thin cord where it inserted into his belly.  I would like to be able to rule this out, or know to prepare for the wost if this baby too has a lean cord :/

[thorn]

Yes, it can diagnose things like neural tube defects (spina bifida) which in some cases can even be corrected with in-utero surgery.  Also things like gastroschisis (when there is a hole in the skin allowing the intestines to be outside the baby's body) or heart or other defects that may require immediate surgery postpartum.  It also lets you know where your placenta is and if there are any problems related to the placenta/cord that might need to be followed or indicate a change in birth plans.

[contactmaya]

Thankyou. that is very helpful information. I wonder if any of those conditions are associated with advanced maternal age (im 44)

Also, i wonder if you can rule out spina bifida if you have been taking your prenatals. i havent stopped taking mine since 2004, since i conceived ds1, and since then, i have used them as prenatal and breastfeeding support.

Umbilical cord considerations. wow, thats an important point. ds2 was a homebirth, but the midwife couldnt understand why he was turning the wrong way when crowning. apparently he had gotten himself wrapped  the wrong way in his umbilical cord and had to untwist himself.  this midwife had 30years experience.

ok, im convinced, ill be getting the 20 week ultrasound. but i definitely want to research details so i know what to ask them to look for in addition to the usual.

ps. im pretty sure the plural of kidney is kidneys

pps. thankyou Thorn for helping me resolve the issue of my perpetual capitals!!!

[thorn]

Originally Posted by contactmaya 

pps. thankyou Thorn for helping me resolve the issue of my perpetual capitals!!!

you're welcome, glad I could help!

[niladridasi]

Originally Posted by *~*SewHappyNow*~* 

I don't plan to do anything, except pee on the sticks my midwife has me do to test for sugar and protein.  Perhaps a doppler a few times.  That is it.  I won't even do the glucose test, which I didn't do last time either. 

In Florida, it is basically illegal for certified midwives and doctors to accept an pregnant woman if she refuses bloodwork. How did you find your midwife where you are?

[Mama2ChicknLil]

Originally Posted by doulawoman 

I have. I had mw's (do you have an ob or??) but even then they weren't too keen on me skipping it, sinc eI have a family history of actual diabetes. You can offer to doa  finger prick glucose test instead, much mroe accurate, the GD tests apparently have over 50% different results for the same woman the very next day. I did a lot of research and the only definite link if you are found to have GD is that you ahve a higher chance of having actual diabetes later in life. It usually means you needs to eat mroe whole grains, and good protein i want to write more but dd1 is freaking out here...gtg

Thanks honey, that's a good point about the blood test. Im going to flay refuse the while thing though...not a single risk factor and given the GTT rate if false positives, I'm not comfortable putting myself in its hands . Such a ridiculous test. I ready just feel like these prenatal visits are so intrusive, I feel great, I know this baby is fine, the only anxiety I ever have is around going into those appointments. I'm gearing up to refuse internal exams, gbs testing, and pretty much anything else they throw at me (medical model hospital midwife). Im going unassisted for this birth, and I might end up going unassisted for the remainder of this pregnancy.

Xoxo

[Chuzzie]

I am, thus far, kidless (excluding my darling pets... little different though ), but I hope to one day have a homebirth with a midwife and a doula (and my power-women circle). I am a student MW, so I spend a lot of time (mayyybe a lil too much time) looking into & researching this stuff. I have heard so many sides to the "birth intervention debate" (I continue to learn more about it every day!). I think that one must simply consider the opportunity cost of each step in managing their pregnancy, given their unique personal factors (social, emotional, physical, spiritual). Meaning, if someone is at a legitimately higher risk in during pregnancy for whatever reason, they must decide whether or not the risks of specific intervention(s) outweigh the benefits. There are also many "routine protocol" interventions that are very questionable (and coincidentally, slow-trickle lucrative) in more medicalized settings, so it takes a fair amount of know-how on the mother's part to discern what's necessary and what's being "pushed". In any case, us westerners are at a point where medicine and holistic practice is not as uncommon as it was mid-20th century. I personally feel that this is the beauty of consciousness-driven modern homeopathy and medicine. Empowering and practical. 

I really like what doulawoman said about wishing she had trusted her body more. It is so friggin hard to let go and release, to surrender to the moment. Some of us adults forgot how to do that long ago. But for the little ones coming into the world... it's all they know how to do. To me, surrender to "what is" is one the hardest life struggles and simultaneously the gateway to empowerment/enlightenment. 

[wombjuice]

This statement is not true.  Any mother in Florida can sign an informed consent waiver if they choose not to receive specific testing or procedures during their pregnancy.  It is then up to the midwife (or OB) to choose whether or not to continue caring for the mother.
 

Originally Posted by niladridasi 

In Florida, it is basically illegal for certified midwives and doctors to accept an pregnant woman if she refuses bloodwork. How did you find your midwife where you are?

[wombjuice]

In the state that I am currently living in, the test is now called the Penta Screen (previously Quad, previously Triple).

As thorn clarified above, the Penta Screen is not a diagnostic test, so saying it has a high false positive rate is not technically correct.  However, to save time and to help explain to the mama who asked, I said it has a high false positive rate because results of this test often indicate the risk of disorders that do not exist--causing needless worry and anxiety in mothers and families and further testing which can be very risky and invasive (such as amnio).  In my opinion (and semantics aside), that is the layperson's definition of a high false positive rate.

Asking me if I "passed" midwifery school is quite rude and frankly none of your business.  Peace and blessings to you.
 

Originally Posted by jmoss70 

I thought the "penta" or more commonly called Quad screen only has a 5% false positive rate?   If that is too high, try integrated first trimester screen for 2% FPR.  Did you pass midwifery school?

[niladridasi]

.

[niladridasi]

Originally Posted by wombjuice 

This statement is not true.  Any mother in Florida can sign an informed consent waiver if they choose not to receive specific testing or procedures during their pregnancy.  It is then up to the midwife (or OB) to choose whether or not to continue caring for the mother.
 

t

All right, it may not technically be illegal. I did say "basically illegal". The midwives I talked to said they wouldn't care for a mother who refused blood work because of legal issues. That new upset me very much when I heard it so I may have not used the perfect words in my previous post to say what I was trying to say.

[wombjuice]

I'm sorry that that happened to you!  I have worked at birth centers where the midwives wouldn't care for mamas who refused all testing...but they always referred her to another midwife who was okay with it.  Were you able to find another midwife?

Originally Posted by niladridasi 

All right, it may not technically be illegal. I did say "basically illegal". The midwives I talked to said they wouldn't care for a mother who refused blood work because of legal issues. That new upset me very much when I heard it so I may have not used the perfect words in my previous post to say what I was trying to say.

[MidwifeErika]

I plan on being as low tech as possible. I will be getting some blood work done, mostly vitamin levels that I struggle with keeping up to be sure they stay good. That is about it though. I am planning to try to avoid doppler and/or ultrasounds unless something comes up that justifies the use. I am planning on having a homebirth. I just like to keep everything pretty low key.

[*~*SewHappyNow*~*]

In PA lay midwifery is sort of underground.  They usually work with the Amish communities.  I found my midwife through a recommendation here at MDC back in 2004.  I don't think its "illegal" to refuse bloodwork here.  The CNM who delivered my first baby knows and respects my midwife and their practice will take orders from my lay midwife for bloodwork, U/S, etc.. 

Originally Posted by niladridasi 

In Florida, it is basically illegal for certified midwives and doctors to accept an pregnant woman if she refuses bloodwork. How did you find your midwife where you are?

[demoonunit]

Originally Posted by *~*SewHappyNow*~* 

In PA lay midwifery is sort of underground.  They usually work with the Amish communities.  I found my midwife through a recommendation here at MDC back in 2004.  I don't think its "illegal" to refuse bloodwork here.  The CNM who delivered my first baby knows and respects my midwife and their practice will take orders from my lay midwife for bloodwork, U/S, etc.. 

Do you mind my asking where in PA you are? I'm in eastern PA and would love to chat with somebody who knows of good midwives in the area.

[*~*SewHappyNow*~*]

We're in western PA, so that might not help you.  MANA is a good place to look.  My midwives are listed there, they are both very active in MANA.   http://www.mothersnaturally.org/midwives/findAMidwife.php 

[Devaskyla]

I'll read the other replies in a minute. i just wanted to say I go super low tech, for the most part. My last 2 were UBAC's. The only testing I had done was 1 ultrasound. I'll probably have one again this time, since I'm old & this was an unplanned pregnancy, but that's the only thing I'm planning on for testing.