My experience with attachment parenting. Not a debate on how I word things. UGH! - Page 6

[GoBecGo]

I am not prefect!

And Linda i love you, and your posts. xxx

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by moonfirefaery 

Hear, hear!!!

(Automatic spellchecker really got you on the spelling of perfect in that one or something, eh Linda?  )

  Spelling isn't my strong point.

[GoBecGo]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

  Spelling isn't my strong point.

 But you have so many others, you have to leave some of the strong points for the rest of us no? 

[APToddlerMama]

Originally Posted by moonfirefaery 

So, FF would have been easier for you. However, the statement you were responding to was: "FF is not necessarily easier either". And you know what? It's not. That you had a difficult time BFing doesn't mean no FF parents have a difficult time; it doesn't mean FF is easier for everyone or is always easier. And I HAVE had to take antibiotics for mastitis, more than once. FF parents can run into issues where their babies don't like the nipples or are allergic to FF, or even where they simply cannot afford the formula. And maybe they chose to BF, but couldn't, and now they have to buy formula they can't afford or that their kid vomits up. As for the reasons people do CIO, maybe the alternatives were just as hard for them, maybe it's their last resort, maybe they're sleep deprived with dark circles and at the end of their rope, maybe their mom or pediatrician recommended it, maybe they think sleep training is necessary. But by no means is it easy; I don't know any parents who CIO and thought it was easy. 

This is the third time I am trying this--I know we all agree the new MDC format stinks ;).  Anyhow, I didn't say CIO was easy.  I said I was sure it was hard in the moment and also upsetting.  So you don't need to twist my words.  Also, I acknowledged there would be a time and place in which I would FF instead of BF (yes, dark circles, sleep deprived, and at the end of my rope).  Frankly, that is how I feel about all things AP and thought I made that clear.  There are times when CIO, FF, etc, could be argued to be more AP if it meets baby's needs by meeting mom's mental health needs.  I am in no way militant about AP, so you can quit being so snippy with me like I am. 

Also, I am surprised by the huge backlash by many about AP not producing certain outcomes.  Research backs the theory that kids with a secure attachment to a caregiver do better than those with an insecure attachment, and that isn't Dr. Sears 101--its in your Psych 101 textbook.   There are obviously exceptions to every rule.  Humans are resilient and some more so than others.  I know that because my neighbor lets her kid CIO doesn't mean she's going to turn into a sociopath, and that because I don't doesn't mean my kid is going to be a saint.  The fact that some of us feel that AP is the best thing for kids doesn't mean we think we're superior to anyone else.  For me, it means that I believe the research on AP and I believe that kids deserve to have their needs met, and that there are in fact known and proven benefits to kids having their needs met, and known risks for those who haven't had their needs met.  I know there has to be balance and I think most people posting on here know that too.   I don't live in a bubble where everyone I meet has the resources to give their kids everything they'd like to in a perfect world, and myself am not able to do that.  I can't be 100% AP all the time and nobody I know can.  If people don't believe in the benefits of AP and strive to meet their kids' needs as best as they can, I don't understand why they even come to MDC. 

And as a side note, I think it is ironic that so many people are calling OP on the carpet for feeling superior to her friend when all of the posts calling her out smack of superiority themselves right down to using the same argument she used that they have more experience parenting and therefore are somehow experts on the topic at hand. 

[APToddlerMama]

Originally Posted by Calicara 

I am so sorry for the way the "crib=cage" comment came across, and perhaps should have included the context and offer the fact that I have a sarcastic sense of humor. I was using hyperbole when my brother-in-law (who is not a father, not that it matters) kept grilling us on why our baby slept with us. "Aren't you afraid you're going to roll over on her?" "Aren't you afraid she's going to have 'issues' since she 'needs' a parent to 'fall asleep'"? "Why do you do that?" A sleep-deprived and annoyed-that-I-even-have-to-justify-myself me: "Oh, I don't know, I guess she doesn't like to be caged. Would you like to sleep in a cage?" Truth be told: I am trying to get her to spend the first part of the night and naps in the crib, but she's not feeling it right now. I know enough in the past nine months (which I recognize isn't a lifetime, but seems like a long time, relatively speaking) that each child is different and each family has its own sets of needs and the last thing I want to do is judge others. Perhaps I just need to work on being more tactful when people drive me to my limit. AP jives with our own style and works for us. Something else that doesn't work for us works beautifully for someone else. And that's totally 100 % fine. 

My initial comment was just preparing myself for how to react to being judged for my choices, which I am fairly certain is gonna happen when I visit my folks. I hate controversy (can't we all just get along?) but as a new parent I am realizing that you need to develop a thick skin if you are at all sensitive (I prefer the term "thoughtful") to begin with. Crib, bed, on the soft back of a flying unicorn: whichever way gives your kid the best sleep is the right choice for you, as far as I'm concerned. I never meant to come across as belittling someone else's choices; that goes against the very core of my being.

I don't think you have to be sorry for anything.  Were you to start a thread titled "My family is judging co-sleeping", I can see someone advising you to make a comment like "how would you like to sleep in a cage?" to your family members and everyone would applaud such a clever question that would surely put family members on their heels.  This thread has just turned into judgment central.  I'm not offended and my kid spent plenty of time sleeping in his cage...

[moonfirefaery]

APToddlerMama, please don't accuse me of being snippy, especially after the tone of the posts of yours which led up to the post of mine which you quoted. No one here except the OP has expressed any feelings of superiority. The OP dismissed the posts as a crazy debate that inevitably results on an AP thread, so someone reminded her that we're all AP parents, too, many of us who have been doing it for years and do have something to teach. It's not that we're experts; we're trying to demonstrate to her that the controversy on this thread is not over AP in general, but over her comments expressing superiority. No one has judged anyone; we've pointed out that saying "How can I not feel superior" is judgmental and isn't going to help someone make friends.

[moonfirefaery]

AP can't always be done; it's great if it can. Research shows AP produces good results; but reality shows that it doesn't always.

In a nutshell!

[mamazee]

AP compared to truly unattached parenting, which is beyond just not AP but neglect, will show differences in how the child grows, I agree with that. AP compared to abuse will show differences in how the child grows. But AP compared to loving parents who CIO for a few nights and bottle fed by choice? I don't honestly know which of my dd's friends were parented in an AP way and which weren't. You can't even tell when they're 9 years old. I can see a difference in one child who has been yelled at and spanked frequently. That difference seems to show up. But I wouldn't count on AP giving you better behaved, happier kids than the families in homes where parents are generally attentive and loving but don't do the things we associate with AP.

[princesstutu]

You know, sometimes feelings of superiority arise when we need those feelings in order to remain committed to our ideals in the face of persecution and derision.

Bumping a newly dead thread, but...I'm awake. LOL

[mammal_mama]

Originally Posted by princesstutu 

You know, sometimes feelings of superiority arise when we need those feelings in order to remain committed to our ideals in the face of persecution and derision.

Bumping a newly dead thread, but...I'm awake. LOL

That may be how it started for me, because when my oldest was first born, I kinda felt like I had to fight for the right to be an attached mama -- not with dh, definitely, but it probably didn't help that we were living with my parents (we moved out when dd1 was five months old) and whenever dd was fussy Mom kept thinking she was such a big baby (10 lbs, 12 1/2 ounces) that she really needed some formula on top of that breast milk. Then there were the well-meaning friends and relatives who didn't think it was okay to hold dd all the time, even when she slept.

At first it seemed so much like I was having to prove myself to all these people (and to myself, as well), that as we saw dd growing and thriving on just my milk -- and, yes, when she was about one she did get to the place where she was really restless trying to take her nap in my lap and she gave strong indications that she really wanted to be laid in the bed, so there was the proof that you can hold a baby when she sleeps (if you so choose) and she eventually will be able to sleep on her own -- well, it was like I wanted the satisfaction of seeing them eat their words but I don't think any of them really did.

(Oh, and I also took a lot of flack for not pushing the toilet training -- but, I can assure you, they are now six and eleven and they are not still in diapers! So all those warnings about how they'd be in diapers forever were totally unwarranted. They also didn't nurse forever, in spite of being allowed to nurse for as long as they wanted, so all the ignorant comments that people make to mothers, and I think there's even a warnng about this in one of the "What to Expect" books, are just, well, very ignorant comments made by people who really have no idea what they're talking about.)

But of course the real satisfaction is not in having others say, "Oh, okay, I was wrong and you were right." The real satisfaction is in my relationship with my children. And we really do all make mistakes. I'm just very happy to be able to say that all or nearly all my mistakes are squarely my own and I think I've largely avoided adding the mistakes of others on top of my own.

Edited by mammal_mama - 6/13/11 at 4:26am