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My experience with attachment parenting. Not a debate on how I word things. UGH! - Page 5

post #81 of 110

Thanks for sharing, mammal_mama :) I imagine a similar conversation will happen during/after our visit home, haha. I asked someone (who was questioning our sleep sharing) whether he preferred to sleep in a cage, and his response was "I'm not a baby. Baby's are supposed to sleep in cribs." Really? According to who? I try not to judge others, but have a low tolerance for such blind ignorance (not sure how else to describe it).

post #82 of 110

Hi Mamas, this has been an awesome conversation and I have learned a lot. Thanks!

 

My turn :)

Rule #1: Nobody cares what I'm doing (in the esoteric microcosm of AP vs. whatever). Really. If I am being judged, that person wants control. They either want me to make the same choices they did because it validates their choices, or they're power trippers. So that's on them. If I'm just feeling judged, that's my feeling and it's my problem and I have to work it out. Am I actually judging myself, feeling not perfect enough? Did I make a choice I don't really believe in and I feel bad and regretful?

 

Rule #2: I don't care what you're doing! Love your kids, feed them and keep them safe. You decide for yourself the meanings of "love" and "safe." It took a series of enlightening and painful events for me to realize that I am wearing only my own comfy shoes - I don't know that other mama. Even if we're close, I don't have her kids, I don't have her life. I am absolutely incompetent to judge. Obviously avoiding the debate about whether I'm a more worthy human being than a cruel/ neglectful person.

 

It's easier with fewer people in my head. I'm working on living "to each her own," not just saying it. It's hard! But I believe we have more in common with other moms than difference.

 

So, in case it helps, I say this: "Because we choose to," "That is our choice," and of course... "Lovely bean dip we're having today!"

 

Mandatory disclaimer: It's a long trip down from the high horse; I still haven't made it. My judgment pops up when I'm feeling especially special. It's very disappointing, very educational.

 

More Love!

post #83 of 110
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chinaberry View Post

 

I'm working on living "to each her own," not just saying it. It's hard! But I believe we have more in common with other moms than difference.

 

So, in case it helps, I say this: "Because we choose to," "That is our choice," and of course... "Lovely bean dip we're having today!"

 

Mandatory disclaimer: It's a long trip down from the high horse; I still haven't made it. My judgment pops up when I'm feeling especially special.


I find it easier and easier the older my kids get, and part of that I think is because I get more sleep!  I get real time to myself!  The sacrifices that I made when they were small, that many of you still make every day and night, are in the past for me.

 

It is so much easier to react with love and compassion to others when one's own needs are being consistently met rather than put on hold indefinently.

 

post #84 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calicara View Post

I asked someone (who was questioning our sleep sharing) whether he preferred to sleep in a cage


Why does there have to be judgement either way? What I don't understand about some of the AP parents I know is that in order to feel better about their own choices they have to attack "mainstream" choices. All parents do what they feel is best for their kids.

 

I don't like the implication that putting a baby in a crib is allowing them to sleep in a cage. I co-slept with my son until he was almost five months old and then he just couldn't tolerate being in the bed next to me. He kicked, punched, tried to crawl away, fretted, and tossed and turned. I didn't want to, but I put him in a crib in our room. I choose a crib because it had a good mattress and was a safe place. This was not at all convenient for me, as I was still nursing my son through the night and had to get him out of the crib and bring him back to the bed every time he nursed. However, it was best for my son, because he slept soundly in the crib, and not in the bed. He is now 27 months old and I STILL keep trying to get him to sleep in the bed with me, but he won't have any of it!

 

You don't have to justify your choices by belittling the choices of others.

post #85 of 110

I see judgement on both sides but I see it more online then in actual real life. I don't understand why the attacks or the my way is better then yours because its different. I am way more AP then mainstream but I am very much mainstream at the same time. ( i really hate having lablels on it) Where as DH is very much more mainstream then AP. We parent with what we feel is right for not only our child but also for the whole family. 

 

So see comments like calling a crib a cage in a lot of ways comes off as almost offensive.  When I hear cage my initial reaction is animals are in cages. 

 

Bottom line in most cases it really doesn' t matter if a person is raised because there is a point in their lives where it no longer is about they were raised but how they chose to live their lives.

post #86 of 110

I def feel your pain. My husband is stationed away from home and we only see him every 4-6 months and I recently found out his mother has been calling him complaining about how I am raising AE, he stood up for me, but I was pretty angry.

 

As far as attachment parenting goes, we sleep in the same room, share the same space and I only do activities we both can enjoy. I recently joined a holistic moms group and a Waldorf parent-toddler class, which may have ignited my MIL's own personal flame of disapproval, now I just ignore them.

 

Overall, I agree with everyone else and say "it works for us".

post #87 of 110

I know for myself, I found out about the so-called AP practices by chance, really - I can easily imagine myself doing non-AP things otherwise.  Would that have made me a worse parent?  I'm still the same person after all and I'm sure I would still love my children as much ...

 

Do try to keep an open mind, I guess - I know, easier said than done ...

post #88 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by beenmum View Post

"You have put alot of stock in your parenting style. However that isnt for everyone. And people do get upset if someone else criticizes their parenting."

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Incredibly well put, beenmum.  I think you've hit the nail on the proverbial head.  This has become clearer to me as I've moved along this journey of parenting.  Mine are 8 and 5 and I used to judge (internally...without really admitting it to myself) others a good bit and also felt judged by family members.  I think it comes down to the fact that we all want to do the best for our children.  It is on a cellular level that mothers want to protect and provide the best possible nurturing and love to our babes.  As the world seeps in more and more (bullies, school, the broader world in general) I think humility really sinks in.  We are not in control of our children's destiny.  We can't prevent them from being hurt no matter how much we try.  And truthfully, that isn't what they need from us to live full lives.  They need to travel their own road, so to speak.  Of course, we protect them and do what is necessary at whatever developmental stage they are in.  But I think I've really learned over the years that there is no one right way.  It is a hard, hard job.  I am an AP mama but the babyhood is so far behind me now that I see my AP role very differently and it's more confusing and challenging than ever now that my children are gaining more independence.  

 

Have some humility.  Have an open mind.  Know that your way is the right way for you and your child.  It has nothing to do with the mama next to you.  And what the mama next to you is doing doesn't reflect on you one way or the other.

 

 



 


Edited by swampangel - 6/4/11 at 9:10pm
post #89 of 110

I am so sorry for the way the "crib=cage" comment came across, and perhaps should have included the context and offer the fact that I have a sarcastic sense of humor. I was using hyperbole when my brother-in-law (who is not a father, not that it matters) kept grilling us on why our baby slept with us. "Aren't you afraid you're going to roll over on her?" "Aren't you afraid she's going to have 'issues' since she 'needs' a parent to 'fall asleep'"? "Why do you do that?" A sleep-deprived and annoyed-that-I-even-have-to-justify-myself me: "Oh, I don't know, I guess she doesn't like to be caged. Would you like to sleep in a cage?" Truth be told: I am trying to get her to spend the first part of the night and naps in the crib, but she's not feeling it right now. I know enough in the past nine months (which I recognize isn't a lifetime, but seems like a long time, relatively speaking) that each child is different and each family has its own sets of needs and the last thing I want to do is judge others. Perhaps I just need to work on being more tactful when people drive me to my limit. AP jives with our own style and works for us. Something else that doesn't work for us works beautifully for someone else. And that's totally 100 % fine. 

 

My initial comment was just preparing myself for how to react to being judged for my choices, which I am fairly certain is gonna happen when I visit my folks. I hate controversy (can't we all just get along?) but as a new parent I am realizing that you need to develop a thick skin if you are at all sensitive (I prefer the term "thoughtful") to begin with. Crib, bed, on the soft back of a flying unicorn: whichever way gives your kid the best sleep is the right choice for you, as far as I'm concerned. I never meant to come across as belittling someone else's choices; that goes against the very core of my being.

 


Edited by Calicara - 6/4/11 at 9:47pm
post #90 of 110
Thread Starter 
Ok so here I am again, the big bad OP. I stopped reading this thread because I felt I was misunderstood, especially with the word "superior" which has been thrown around in some ridiculous ways. I was looking to commiserate and I didn't get much, did I? I am very confident in how I parent and really feel that ive made all the right choices. I don't think back and go "wish I would have listened to my gut" because I did the first time around. I was told how to parent my child by people who don't know much about my family, my child, me. They weren't saying "this is what I do", they were saying "what you do is WRONG". Luckily I'm smart enough not to listen, but at the end of the day, it hurts my feelings, for starters. To tell me I'm wrong to judge is hilarious, I don't judge, I don't give advice and now a days, I just don't say much. It makes me sad that I can't share scientific studies that show CIO as being damaging because I'm automatically attacking? They ask why I do what I do, so I tell them and I'm the bad guy? Huh? Are these studies totally biased? Maybe. But from what I read about Ferberized babies who grow up to have major issues makes me want to tell everyone I know!

So moral of the story? Don't start a thread about AP and not expect crazy debate. I really am not an extremist, I just like to talk about my life and thinks I'm passionate about openly and try and do what I think is right. Ugh...
post #91 of 110
Thread Starter 
Ps: calicara and mammal_mama, I love your posts. Especially the fact they ignored your 9mo WALKING but had to say something about the other baby being content by your side? I get that a lot too, DD is shy and doesn't vocalize that much. SIL sees her crying and tells me she's so glad to see DD vocalizing. She was crying hysterically for me in her carseat at the time, and this was not a good thing or good vocalization in any way, shape, or form. I got her out of the seat asap but had to listen to SIL laugh about it. Yeah, it's soooo darned funny how I won't let her cry. Oui vey.

I also loved the "sleeping on the soft back of a flying unicorn". Will be using that one next time someone asks why I have a crib attached to my bed. wink1.gif
post #92 of 110

tillymonster, I really identify with what you said about not wanting to wish, later, that you'd listened to your gut. Pretty early on, I realized that making mistakes as a mom was inevitable -- but I wanted them to at least be my mistakes. If we don't listen to ourselves, we run the risk of making a whole lot more mistakes 'cause we'll still make some of our own, plus we'll be making a whole lot of other people's mistakes, too.

post #93 of 110

yeah I feel like even in the "big city" there is a limit to how much some parents are willing to "sacrifice" their comfort for their children, I have yet to really come to grasp with this limit, I am often uncomfortable for my young son, because I know it is best for him, fexmp. CLW, nigh time nursing, not CIO and so on. And then random strangers will tell me I'm irresponsible for having my kid walk w/o shoes in the street or park, or someone called me "a careless parent" for letting him gnaw on a stick. i mean ppl are nuts! , truly, that my take on it, doesn't mean I'm going to be nuts too. March on, I say, to good parenting!

post #94 of 110

I have not read all the replies, but I will add my $.02 in....

All of the 'early' parenting AP vs. mainstream judgements and 'stuff' really does lessen once your children are older. It is rare that someone will ask you if your 7 year old was breastfed. I think as new parents we tend to see differences when you are practicing a more 'ap' style parenting than trying to find similarities. I breastfed, was adamant against not CIO and still have all 4 (yes 4) of my children sleeping next to me at night. Truthfully though, I no longer try to talk a Maintream CIO parent out of her parenting choice. Why? It is her child, her decision and most likely, she is educated enough to know my position on the subject, has read the research and the Dr Sears articles and chosen that is her style and choice to do otherwise. Who am I to argue with her decision?

 

I know some mothers seek out AP playgroups to socialize exclusively in because they are uncomfy in settings where there decisions are challenged. I don't feel that way. I do not want to change someone from being catholic or baptist because I've decided to live another way, but I will still gladly welcome friendship. The only stipulation, of course, is I assume that I will receive the same amount of tolerance in return. I breastfeed my toddlers, I do not CIO (so i may look like a mess w/o make-up during a growth spurt or otherwise lack of sleep night)...and I do appreciate the lack of judgement on my discipline style. That being said, don't they deserve the same tolerance and respect? If they ask for advice, I will give my experience and advice...not the research. My son liked to be rocked to sleep, my son wasn't ready to wean...not what Dr Sears says.

 

Motherhood is difficult enough. I don't understand why, as women, we go on the offensive. Do your best...let them do theirs. I understand AP, my child, and what it means to me as a mom.

 

Trust me..when they turn 9,. you will only be judged if your chidl is stil in diapers.

post #95 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by tillymonster View Post

 I am very confident in how I parent and really feel that ive made all the right choices.
 
Great. But bear in mind you have a toddler. There is still lots of growing for both of you to do. There is not a soul on earth that one day wont say "I wish I had done that differently."
 
Kids have a way of humbling us. Esp when you least expect it. Its much less emotionally damaging to us if we understand that none of us make the right choice 100% of the time. We make the best choice, or even the best choice at the time. But I have been in this game 174 months longer then you have. And I I have never been able to say that I have made all the right choices all the time.
 
 
 
 
So moral of the story? Don't start a thread about AP and not expect crazy debate.
 
Um, how about maybe not posting a thread about feeling judged while concurrently using the phrase "How can I not feel superior. I have 17 more months of expereince then she does."
 
Its not only off putting, its hypocritical.
 
No, you dont have all the answers b/c there are millions of questions that have not even been asked of you yet.
 
I really am not an extremist, I just like to talk about my life and thinks I'm passionate about openly and try and do what I think is right. Ugh..
 
But you come off superior. You even used that exact phrasing.
 
I remember when my kids were young and healthy and I thought I knew it all. And then life slapped me upside the head and said there is no room for arrogance when raising a compassionate human being.
 
You'll never get thorugh life undamaged if you dont understand that.


 

post #96 of 110


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tillymonster View Post

Ok so here I am again, the big bad OP. I stopped reading this thread because I felt I was misunderstood, especially with the word "superior" which has been thrown around in some ridiculous ways.
 
You were throwing that word around in ridiculous ways yourself.
 
I was looking to commiserate and I didn't get much, did I?
 
You posted that you felt judged, which we can all commiserate with, then you made statements we found judgemental, which is something this community rarely supports.
I am very confident in how I parent and really feel that ive made all the right choices.
 
All the right choices for you, your family, and your child--not for everyone.
 
I don't think back and go "wish I would have listened to my gut" because I did the first time around.
 
One day, you will look back, and there WILL be things you wish you had done differently. All parents do.
 
I was told how to parent my child by people who don't know much about my family, my child, me. They weren't saying "this is what I do", they were saying "what you do is WRONG".
 
Obviously we don't agree that they should do that--but they will keep doing it, and the best thing you can do is let it all roll off your back. All you can do is your best for your child.
 
Luckily I'm smart enough not to listen, but at the end of the day, it hurts my feelings, for starters.
 
I know that it does, but try not to take it personally. Everyone has an opinion about parenting!
 
To tell me I'm wrong to judge is hilarious, I don't judge,
 
The comment you repeated several times about being superior to others due to having an older child was judging. When you come to realize that, and change the language you use, you will feel less judged by others, too. You are not superior, for any reason, and stating otherwise will always rile feathers.
 
It makes me sad that I can't share scientific studies that show CIO as being damaging because I'm automatically attacking?
 
How would you feel if people shared with you scientific studies showing your parenting methods were damaging? Why do you feel it's your place to educate them? Do you assume they have not done the research themselves or that their instincts with their own children are wrong? Do you not do things that studies show are potentially damaging? Some (albeit flawed) studies lead people to support circumcision or to be against cosleeping, which is against the stance of most MDCers. We don't let those studies influence our parenting. Is it not hypocritical to expect others to change their parenting techniques based on studies we provide?
 
They ask why I do what I do, so I tell them and I'm the bad guy? Huh?
 
You're only the bad guy if it's unsolicited or judgemental. We all have explained what we do and why, only to have others assume we're trying to lecture them. And likewise, it is easy for us to feel judged when others tell us what they do and why.
 
But from what I read about Ferberized babies who grow up to have major issues makes me want to tell everyone I know!
 
So do it, in the proper venues--when giving solicited advice, when debating the issue online, when deciding what products to buy, give to others, or recommend.

So moral of the story? Don't start a thread about AP and not expect crazy debate.
 
I think it's more like: don't post about feeling judged, then immediately follow it with a comment about your own superiority which is quite judgemental. Maybe you didn't intend to be judgemental, but it came out that way. This is a prime example of how the language you use can be insulting, even when you're only meaning to be helpful. If you can tweak your language to better reflect your intent, you may get better results.
 

 

post #97 of 110

Yep. This.

 

 

post #98 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by tillymonster View Post

So moral of the story? Don't start a thread about AP and not expect crazy debate..


 

The responses that you have are having such a hard time hearing are all from APing moms, and some of us have far more experience than you.

 

You could choose to actually hear what we are saying, and to grow as a person. To do that, you'd have to admit that you aren't perfect yet.

 

It really shouldn't be that hard to admit you aren't perfect, none of us are perfect. No one is perfect. We ALL have things to learn.


Edited by Linda on the move - 6/6/11 at 2:39pm
post #99 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post

 

The responses that you have are having such a hard time hearing are all from APing moms, and some of us have far more experience than you.

 

You could choose to actually hear what we are saying, and to grow as a person. To do that, you'd have to admit that you aren't prefect yet.

 

It really shouldn't be that hard to admit you aren't prefect, none of us are prefect. No one is prefect. We ALL have things to learn.

Hear, hear!!!

(Automatic spellchecker really got you on the spelling of perfect in that one or something, eh Linda? lol.gif )

post #100 of 110

Linda, you strengthen my resolve to keep the mommy nap a priority. Bless you.

 

ETA the thing I was referring to: "It is so much easier to react with love and compassion to others when one's own needs are being consistently met rather than put on hold indefinitely."


Edited by Chinaberry - 6/6/11 at 6:03pm
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