Pre-algebra help needed

[annettemarie]

After completing the first two Life of Fred books, MIchael (age 12, going into 7th grade) has decided he doesn't want to continue with the pre-algebra/biology book. Any suggestions for what we might want to try next year?

[mom2ponygirl]

A friend of ours has really enjoyed pre-algebra with Thinkwell and is continuing on with them for Algebra.  If your son likes math and doesn't mind some challenging problems, I would check out the new Art of Problem Solving pre-algebra book that is being released this fall.  Obviously I haven't seen it yet, but my daughter loved the Intro to Algebra book.  She preferred it to Life of Fred, although she enjoyed Fred's story. 

You could also check out the Khan academy pre-algebra resources if you wanted to go the free route.  It has videos and exercises online. 

[moominmamma]

How intuitive is he about math? How much repetition does he need to cement a new skill or concept? How well does he retain things after first learning them? Does he like to be able to do the learning work as well as the practice work independently? Does he like to progress quickly in spurts, then plateau for a while, or is he a slow and steady learner? Does he prefer consumable workbooks, textbooks or computer-based work? What is it about LoF that is not appealing to him? Is he primarily a visual or an auditory learner? 

There are SO many programs out there, it would really help to narrow things down based on your ds's preferences and needs. 

Miranda

[annettemarie]

Great questions! I asked him and he said:
It's something I really have to work at.
Usually, I'm better when I have a bunch of the same questions, so a lot of repetition.
I don't need lots of practice, but I need practice.
Once I have had enough repetition, then it sticks in my mind.
I'm better when Mom is teaching me how to do it. I can do the problems and practice on my own once you teach me how to do it, but I like having a person teach me and not a book.
I like slow and steady, that's usually how I learn new things best.
I would prefer textbooks where I do the problems in a notebook. I've never had a workbook, but would try one. Not a computer.
What I don't like about Life of Fred: It's just not my learning style. I took a quiz and the quiz showed I am better off learning hearing and I'm really not good at just looking at math and knowing. All those numbers just swim in my head when I look at them and it's easier when someone else is explaining. I don't like all the humor and stuff covering up the math. I think math is one of those subjects that's made to be dry.

So, there you have it, straight from the horse's mouth.

[zebra15]

Hummmm.... I ordered a textbook set off ebay for DS last year, thinking he would need it as reference to his CTY classes.  He never used it.  I think it was a standard Mcdowell Douglass (??) book.  And trust me it was 'dry'  I got the whole set, teacher book, kids book, workbook, cd etc for under $50.

[zebra15]

http://holtmcdougal.hmhco.com/hm/math.htm

this is the link to the official vendor.  I asked DS about the 'math' textbook I got him off ebay last year and while he agrees he never used it and its not 'his way of learning' he said it would be a great reference and good for a 'kid who learns from books'

We have the book with the person in a kayak on the front.

[annettemarie]

I looked, but the only one I saw with a kayak was algebra and not pre-algebra, unless I was looking at the wrong thing.

[zebra15]

Originally Posted by annettemarie 

I looked, but the only one I saw with a kayak was algebra and not pre-algebra, unless I was looking at the wrong thing.

duh- we have the algebra book.

try this one

http://holtmcdougal.hmhco.com/hm/detail.htm?ID=1007500000072706#

[moominmamma]

We have been happiest with Singapore's secondary books. They sound similar to what Michael is looking for. (My kids totally agree with him on the idea of dressing up math with humour and stories, BTW ... "Just give me the math!" they say. "I'm doing math because I want to learn math. Don't pretend it's something else!") They're not homeschooling texts per se, so they don't have a scripted section or "lesson" for the parent to give, but the explanations and examples in the text are pretty easy, IME, for the parent to use in that manner if that's what the learner wants.

But I should say that I'm not entirely sure what level "pre-algebra" covers, and the Singapore New Math Counts (which doesn't have a separate workbook) or Discovering Mathematics or New Elementary Math (which do have workbooks) may start at a slightly higher level than what is considered pre-algebra. They come after Singapore Primary Level 6 which introduces some basic algebra including simple work with exponents, rate and volume word problems, two and three-step problems using ratios and percentages, area and circumference of circles, triangles and parallelograms, deriving unknown angles in opposite and subtended parallel angles, parallelograms, trapezoids, triangles and the like. However, if he hasn't covered that, almost all of it is reviewed extensively in the first level of Singapore secondary programs. Based on Michael's assessment of his need for repetition and retention, I think Singapore secondary ("elementary") programs would strike about the right balance. 

But another issue is that although I think these are among the mathematically the best laid-out, best taught secondary math programs available, and result in excellent mastery, they don't match up with the American approach of separating out Algebra, Geometry, pre-Calc and such as separate courses. So leaving the program part way through to change to something more typically American might prove a bit awkward. We're in Canada, which doesn't follow the American approach either, so that hasn't been an issue for us.

Miranda

[zebra15]

Pre-algebra- for the PP who asked. Is really just the first couple chapters of Algebra drawn out to last a semester and a review of regular math skills the 1st semester.  My son is taking an online Pre-algebra class now and while parts of it are holding his attention, other parts are really frustrating.  I wish we could've gone right to Algebra but the way this program is set up you need to go 'in order', no skipping allowed,- its an accelerated program to begin with anyway so I can complain too much and its work at your own pace.

In the school system I work in Pre algebra is set up as a remedial class for 8th graders and an advanced class for 7th graders.  So based on the kids math placement, puts them in either 'advanced' or 'remedial' math.  Meaning advanced 8th grade does algebra and remedial 8th grade will do algebra in high school.

[moominmamma]

Originally Posted by zebra15 

Pre-algebra- for the PP who asked. Is really just the first couple chapters of Algebra drawn out to last a semester and a review of regular math skills the 1st semester.  

This explanation would probably make sense if I was familiar with the US system and knew what the first couple of chapters of Algebra I was, and what "regular math skills" entailed. As it stands I'm not clear whether stuff like basic exponents, square roots, operations with negative numbers, complex order of operations, simple linear algebraic equations and such would be covered in 6th grade or pre-algebra. But I guess it doesn't really matter, since I'm not in your system. Presumably if annettemarie is considering Singapore she can use their placement tests to figure out whether the secondary program Level 1 or 2 would be a good fit.

Miranda

[zebra15]

moominmamma- i keep forgetting you are north of the border.  here is ds's brief outline for pre-algebra.  Annettemarie- I hope this helps you too.  This is an outline from a 'gifted' program but IMO math is math and the topics are the same, only the problems are more difficult and the pace at which the class is completed would vary.

 1  Whole Numbers   2  Integers   3  Fractions   4  Decimals   5  Variables, Expressions, and Equations   6  Solving Equations and Inequalities   7  Ratios, Proportions, and Percents   8  Measurement, Statistics, and Graphs   9  Geometry   10  Exponents and Polynomials   11  Probability

Chapters 1,2,3,4,7,8,9,11 are basically review of 'math' and chapters 5,6,10 have some 'new' material.

[tankgirl73]

Wow, your son is really self-aware about his learning preferences!  That's fantastic!  

Based on what he said, that he prefers to be taught by a person rather than learn from a book, I'll make 2 suggestions.  No, wait, 3.

First, is Teaching Textbooks Pre-Algebra.  My son is using this right now.  He's just using the book straight up, but it does have lessons on the computer as well, which is very similar to being taught by a person but doesn't need you all the time.  ;)  There are lots of practice questions in the workbook, but you can skip some if he's mastered something and doesn't need THAT much practice.  

Second, is John Bovey's Math Online courses.  These are real, live classes with a teacher and other students via computer live conferencing software.  We did a trial of this last fall, and really loved it, but since we were already well into the TT course we opted not to register for this year, but we're planning to use it for Algebra this fall.  There are actually options for the full live class (I think it's 3x a week, with homework that the child does independently and scans and sends to the teacher), a video-based course which is done entirely independently (cheaper option, but without the interactivity of the class, though gives you more freedom of scheduling and pacing), and a blended option which he's just developing which has once a week classes and the rest done via the videos.  The trial we did was the blended option and like I said, we loved it.  John is funny and engaging and is able to explain things well. The way the conference software for the classes worked was really cool, too... kids could "raise their hands" to ask questions, or he could split them off into groups to work on a problem together.  The kids use microphones so they actually talk to each other (he controls when to let the kids' audio go live), it's not just texting.  

The options offered vary according to the course as he's adding options... it's certainly something to look into anyway.

My third suggestion is PROBABLY not what your son would lean toward, because it's self-taught from a book, but I'll throw it out there anyway.  It's RightStart's Intermediate math course, "A Geometric Approach".  This is their program for middle schoolers.  Rather than abstract algebra, it's based on the fact that middle schoolers' brains are more wired towards the concrete aspects of geometry.  And it's very hands-on, using drawing tools to build, bisect, measure, etc, polygons and angles etc... And they might do things like cut out a parallelogram and chop it up to see how the pieces fit together to make a rectangle, and thus derive the formula for area from that.  The later part of the course involves 3d geometry and there are construction tiles used to actually build the objects.  It's designed to take 2 years to complete, and the child is expected to begin algebra sometime about halfway through.

My son is currently using the RS Geometry and TT Pre-Algebra... along with Fred's Pre-algebra I (which he loves heh); we're planning to continue geometry until it's finished, start John's Algebra course in the fall, continue on with Fred as we finish each level.