Feeling Drawn to UP/UC

[Paigekitten]

I am almost 16 weeks now, and keep feeling drawn to UC/UP.  DH is not comfortable though, and our midwives are so cool it seems silly to convince him, actually I am not wholly confident that a complete UC/UP because I tend to bleed a lot PP.  With my first, a midwife attended hospital water birth, I PP hemorraged, had a seizure, and went into shock, couldn't get IV fluids in me, and had to call in an anesthesiologist to find a vein. They wanted to give me a blood transfusion but I declined. Scared the living daylights out of DH, it took some convincing to get him on board with a midwife attended homebirth with our second, but now he is very excited about having this one at home.  Of course I bled quite a bit with my second too and passed out after that birth for a few minutes, but nothing like the first time.  

Then I am O- and he is O+, but both our girls were O-, so it is possible I may need Rhogam after this birth.

I guess I am just trying to figure out what my mama intuition is telling me this time around.  First time I wanted a homebirth, but felt I needed to be in a hospital setting although I didn't know why at the time.  Second time I knew I needed to stay home.  This time I am feeling like medical attendants are superfluous, and it's kind of expensive to pay someone to tell me things already know.  

Just thinking, and wondering how this birth may turn out, although I know I have a while yet to go : )

[LAWoman]

I think you answered  your own question in your first sentence. It sounds like you have a great option with a midwife you like and trust and you have a history of postpartum hemorrhage in not one, but two otherwise low intervention births now. Given your previous complications, birthing without assistance seems a very unwise choice.

Congrats on your pregnancy.

[labortrials]

You've got some time to listen to that mamatuition!  In the meantime, if you're really going to pursue UC, you might want to know what you might have access to in case of PPH.  There are herbs you can use, and I've read that eating some of the placenta (raw) can help with PPH as well.

Congrats on your pregnancy!

[ursusarctos]

Originally Posted by Paigekitten 

First time I wanted a homebirth, but felt I needed to be in a hospital setting although I didn't know why at the time.  Second time I knew I needed to stay home.  This time I am feeling like medical attendants are superfluous, and it's kind of expensive to pay someone to tell me things already know.  

That intuition is important. And it's been right twice now. I also agree with labortrials that since you seem to have a history of PPH it would be very important to have a plan in case it happened again. I would also personally want to be living close to a hospital. But I don't think that your history should trump your intuition if it is very strong this time around. Good luck discerning what you need to do!
 

[snoogle]

Maybe you should consider going to hospital because of your history of PPH. When I was labouring, the midwifes were happy to let me do whatever I wanted in piece, but help was there if I needed it. 

PPH is serious, and eating placenta won't actually restore blood into your veins. It just fills your stomach with "off" blood (i.e. exposed to the air) that then has to be absorbed via your stomach's processes. It might assist with your iron and protein stores, but it won't cure haemorraghe. 

[APToddlerMama]

Intuition is important and I certainly consider it when making decisions, but I also look at the facts that I know, because our intuition actually doesn't always lead us in the right direction.  Your birthing history would make me think that it wasn't a good idea to do a UC.  A seizure and shock?  Those are serious.  I'd be fearful of leaving my children motherless.  Also, your DH really should be part of the decision.  His intuition is telling him no, and that should be taken into account as well.  It is his child too and who is to say which one of you has the more accurate intuition, kwim? 

[ElizabethE]

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

Intuition is important and I certainly consider it when making decisions, but I also look at the facts that I know, because our intuition actually doesn't always lead us in the right direction. The moment we start to demote our intuition is the moment that UCing is no longer a safe option.  Your birthing history would make me think that it wasn't a good idea to do a UC.  A seizure and shock?  Those are serious.  I'd be fearful of leaving my children motherless.  Part of UCing is being responsible enough to know what to do in the event that certain situations arise. One recommendation I make a lot is that UCers have read Emergency Childbirth, because it's a great practical guide to all the "what ifs". In any case, there are ways of preparing for the unlikely events of seizure and shock. Just as midwives or paramedics or hospital docs are prepared, we must also prepare. Also, your DH really should be part of the decision. Partners ideally should be on the same page and supportive of one another. I think UCing with a partner who isn't fully on board sounds potentially dangerous for a plethora of reasons. That said, it's not his body and at the end of the day, the decision is hers. No one can or should force her into something that doesn't feel right.  His intuition is telling him no, and that should be taken into account as well. His intuition does count, but he isn't the one with a baby in his belly. There needs to be a time to ask whether one is operating from intuition, or from fear. Since you've just told the OP to question her intuition but to listen to the "intuition" of the one not necessarily on board, I have to assume you prefer fear.   It is his child too and who is to say which one of you has the more accurate intuition, kwim?  Most of us here would probably believe that the mother's intuition is the one to go with on this one.

If we don't believe in our own intuition, we wouldn't believe in UC.

[Hallel]

Personally, I dont feel like this is a good idea, you dont seem like a candidate for UC, and your husband needs to be taken into consideration as well, its not just your child and the birth is not about you its about your child. Doctors are not stupid and I really dont think they are just going to be like hey its that NCB mama lets ruin her birth, they might not have the same mindset as you but they are there to keep you safe (not starting a debate about whats scare home vs hospital just saying you are in a dangerous position as you have had serious PPH)

I know what UC is the new cool mama "it" thing and the pressure is on to do it, but I just dont think its a good idea especially in your case.

[weliveintheforest]

I think I would talk to your midwives about how you want the birth to be, so you can have the best of both worlds.  You could always wait until quite far into the birth to call them over, so you have most of your time to yourself but they are there at the end to help in case of pph, and you could ask them to stay in the background unless things look bad.  Some women have the attendant in another room, where they can be called in quickly if needed, but it still gives the family privacy.  If you have specific things you want from a UC (no coaching, no talking, no vaginal exams, whatever) it will help to be very specific about those needs with your midwife.

[sunshinemoma]

Originally Posted by Paigekitten 

I am almost 16 weeks now, and keep feeling drawn to UC/UP.  DH is not comfortable though, and our midwives are so cool it seems silly to convince him, actually I am not wholly confident that a complete UC/UP because I tend to bleed a lot PP. I think there is a reason you are having conflicting feelings here.  Drawn to UC yet, scared of it.  This fear very well, might be your intuition telling you "NO".  It just might not be the right choice for you.  Yet there is a reason you are drawn to it.  Personally I had no idea that UC was considered 'cool'  It is definitely not popular in my area and probably very far from being considered cool.  Yet I have my own reasons for looking into it and considering it very seriously.  Look at your reasons for considering it.  And then look at your fear of pph, it's based on your actual history.  With my first, a midwife attended hospital water birth, I PP hemorraged, had a seizure, and went into shock, couldn't get IV fluids in me, and had to call in an anesthesiologist to find a vein.   They wanted to give me a blood transfusion but I declined. Scared the living daylights out of DH, whoa! YEAH.  I can only imagine how freightened he must have been.  Poor new daddy!   it took some convincing to get him on board with a midwife attended homebirth with our second, but now he is very excited about having this one at home.   Of course I bled quite a bit with my second too and passed out after that birth for a few minutes, but nothing like the first time.  Were there any indicators to pph during your labours?  I understand that careproviders are more worried when labour has been extremely long and mom is extra exhausted...I don't know if that applies to your experience or if there were any interventions that are associated with increased hemorhaging?

Then I am O- and he is O+, but both our girls were O-, so it is possible I may need Rhogam after this birth.

I guess I am just trying to figure out what my mama intuition is telling me this time around.  First time I wanted a homebirth, but felt I needed to be in a hospital setting although I didn't know why at the time.  Second time I knew I needed to stay home.  This time and it's kind of expensive to pay someone to tell me things already know.  

Just thinking, and wondering how this birth may turn out, although I know I have a while yet to go : )

If this were me,  I would definitely be weighing these two things:  "I am feeling like medical attendants are superfluous" AND "I am not wholly confident [in] a complete UC/UP because I tend to bleed a lot PP."   I think they are both very important, valid concerns.  IMO both needing very careful consideration.  Disregarding either of these concerns could have serious affects.  I mean if there was a strong indicator to pph during your labours that can be confidently omitted, great.  But, if you have gone over all the details in your specific history, and still believe you are simply at higher risk of pph than make sure you take those concerns seriously.  Your safety is worth the money ;)  I can totally appreciate the notion that medical attendants can be superfluous and from my personal history can quite literally be a hinderance.  Is there a way to find a balance?  I personally, really like the advice one poster gave about "You could always wait until quite far into the birth to call them over, so you have most of your time to yourself but they are there at the end to help in case of pph, and you could ask them to stay in the background unless things look bad."  Trust yourself!  You can make the best decision for you.  And when you find out what that is, have fun getting your DH on board.  It sounds like he is good at trusting your intuition based on last time right?

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

 Also, your DH really should be part of the decision.  His intuition is telling him no, and that should be taken into account as well.  It is his child too and who is to say which one of you has the more accurate intuition, kwim? 

Paigekitten, if I understood your post correctly, you do include your husband in these decisions.  Thus, your "convincing" to get him on board with the homebirth last time? (which, despite his initial fear or 'intuition' against it, he is now excited about another homebirth.  Obviously his original fear was unfounded, so, in that situation I would say it was your intuition that was more accurate kwim? :)  

Anyways, I think it was very wise of you to consider your husband's concerns and fears- to take them seriously and if needed to help relieve any of his fears by researching the issues etc- it's especially important because his fears can hugely affect your birthing environment and ultimately yours' and your baby's birth (YES it is both of yours.  Not just yours' and not just the baby's.)

Which brings me to wondering....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hallel 

your husband needs to be taken into consideration as well, its not just your child and the birth is not about you its about your child. 

What exactly do you mean?  It's not about [mom] it's about her child..?  Do you truly believe that?  Or maybe it wasn't exactly what you were intending to say..?  I mean you acknowledge that [dad's] opinions should be considered.  I'm guessing the same is true for the mom... I think sometimes it's hard to realize that many UC mom's are doing it for the comfort and safety of their baby not simply for their own desire.  UC is much more gentle and kind on that sweet little baby than the 'typical' hospital delivery.  

[ursusarctos]

Originally Posted by Hallel 

I know what UC is the new cool mama "it" thing and the pressure is on to do it

Sigh. I know I really shouldn't get into this... but, I have to ask: where do you live? Because where I live there is nothing but pressure NOT to UC. I have never, ever heard of a place where the pressure is on to UC. That really wouldn't be a very nice place to live, since nobody should be pressured to have any kind of birth, nor should anyone birth in a particular way because it is "in" (personally I have never heard of this happening - but maybe the atmosphere is just different where I live).

Also, in what universe is a birth only about the child and not at all about the mother? As far as I have understood the basic facts of biology, both mother and child are essential participants in the birthing process. I would extrapolate from that that each one's wellbeing is equally important.

You are entitled to your opinion that the OP is not a good candidate for UC. Many UCers even agree with you. But your perfectly valid opinion gets kind of lost in your snark.
 

[Paigekitten]

A hospital is so not even on my radar, probably never will be unless I get another strong prompting like I did with my first, which I don't.

A birth is about me, it's also about my baby, but it also about my DH and the two girls I already have.  When I introduced the idea of a homebirth with our second to DH we spent hours interviewing with midwives and what options they have available for treating PPH at home, what kind of risk we were looking at given my first birth, do they have pitocin, oxygen, experience in treating it, transfer times to the hospital et cetera.  I certainly didn't discount the fact that DH was scared, but having a plan was so reassuring for him, that he understood how important a homebirth was for me, and how important having our first daughter with us for the birth was as well.  I wouldn't UC unless DH was okay with it too.

My midwives are very happy to do or not do what I ask.  With our second pretty much all they did pre-baby was check the heartbeat twice and help set up the birth pool.  I found it incredibly distracting to have someone sitting in my house taking notes, even if they were in the other room.  Two of them showed up well into the birth and it was horrendously jarring for me, to have people entering my space, even though I knew them, trusted them, and expected them.

My second birth there wasn't enough bleeding to qualify as PPH, there was enough bleeding that getting up and taking a shower caused me to pass out, so yeah, the first time was bad, I needed medical help, but the second time was more of a "jeez, this is annoying" type experience.

I think I have decided to keep my midwives, mostly for DH's comfort.  What I am toying with now, is maybe waiting until after the birth to call them over, since the birth's themselves have been perfect, and that's where I find their presence the most distracting.  I need to figure out my own feelings and desires before I can bring this up with DH or them though.

[APToddlerMama]

Originally Posted by ElizabethE 

If we don't believe in our own intuition, we wouldn't believe in UC.

Last time I checked, you were pushing another mama towards following her intuition in a situation that ended very sadly.  Our intuition isn't always right.  We need to rely on facts as well.  OP herself stated that she is not entirely confident in UC.  That is her intuition talking.  Some of us have better intuition than others and it is impossible to judge over the internet.  I am not against UC in any way.  I don't think it is wise in this situation. 

[labortrials]

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

Last time I checked, you were pushing another mama towards following her intuition in a situation that ended very sadly.  Our intuition isn't always right.  We need to rely on facts as well.  OP herself stated that she is not entirely confident in UC.  That is her intuition talking.  Some of us have better intuition than others and it is impossible to judge over the internet.  I am not against UC in any way.  I don't think it is wise in this situation. 

What's with the blaming?  Personally, I think that's very uncool and I hope this nonsense stops very soon.

I don't recall the OP actually soliciting advice regarding whether she should or shouldn't pursue UC.  You're right it's impossible to judge over the internet yet many are offering their judgments.

[Paigekitten]

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

Last time I checked, you were pushing another mama towards following her intuition in a situation that ended very sadly.  Our intuition isn't always right.  We need to rely on facts as well.  OP herself stated that she is not entirely confident in UC.  That is her intuition talking.  Some of us have better intuition than others and it is impossible to judge over the internet.  I am not against UC in any way.  I don't think it is wise in this situation. 

And if I went solely on facts with my first birth I would have died.  If I went against my intuition in my second birth I would have had a highly unnecessarily medicalized birth. 

And yeah, the blame is so not cool.

I came to this forum to have a safe place to help process these two conflicting feelings I am having, to bounce my thoughts off similar minded mama's who aren't going to run away screaming because I don't trot into the nearest hospital at 36 weeks and strap myself to a hospital bed with an epidural, iv, and fetal monitor.

And as far as intuition goes, mine is pretty good, and it isn't telling me a UC isn't wise, the unsureness I am feeling is different.
 

[ElizabethE]

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

Last time I checked, you were pushing another mama towards following her intuition in a situation that ended very sadly.

If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, I never even participated in that thread until people came around gloating that someone was dead.

That's when I stepped in and said it had gone too far.

However, that's entirely irrelevant since nothing anybody said here led to that, and even the poster has mentioned it. It is beyond insensitive of you continuing to exploit her situation when it's not even applicable.

[ElizabethE]

Originally Posted by Paigekitten 

I came to this forum to have a safe place to help process these two conflicting feelings I am having, to bounce my thoughts off similar minded mama's who aren't going to run away screaming because I don't trot into the nearest hospital at 36 weeks and strap myself to a hospital bed with an epidural, iv, and fetal monitor.

I feel you, ma, I really do. It's sad that there are certain people who want to take that away from you. :(
 

[APToddlerMama]

I'm not exploiting any situation.  I think we need to be very aware of our suggestions and advice and realize that there is the potential to lead people into situations that are dangerous.  History of PPH so back that it results in seizure and shock, and then having a subsequent PPH, and also that person stating that they don't actually feel confident about UC, seems like reason enough not to suggest to someone that their intuition is what should guide their choices.  Also, OP's husband should have a voice because it is his child too.  To say OPs intuition is better than her DH is arbitrary. 

[APToddlerMama]

And as a side note, flame away.  I don't care.  I never commented on the other thread because I felt it inappropriate and would never want to rub salt in a wound.  What did happen though should make people more aware of what they suggest to others.  I truly believe people ultimately choose where and how to birth their children based on love for their children and a desire to do what is right for themselves and their children.  I believe that loving choice can be UC and that can be a wonderful choice.  I also believe that can be a hospital birth or a home birth.  I am not one to judge birthing choices and haven't ever even posted in UC before.  Its not like I'm sitting snooping on UC posts hoping to discourage people from doing one.  I came across this thread in new posts though, and believe we need to take appropriate precautions in situations that seem obviously risky, and learn from things that have happened in the past, some of them very sad.  History of serious PPH don't seem to scream "ideal situation for UC" to me.  Sorry if that ticks people off. 

[ElizabethE]

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

I'm not exploiting any situation.  I think we need to be very aware of our suggestions and advice and realize that there is the potential to lead people into situations that are dangerous.  History of PPH so back that it results in seizure and shock, and then having a subsequent PPH, and also that person stating that they don't actually feel confident about UC, seems like reason enough not to suggest to someone that their intuition is what should guide their choices.  Also, OP's husband should have a voice because it is his child too.  To say OPs intuition is better than her DH is arbitrary. 

Sure you are exploiting the OP you just referenced from another thread! Will you or will you not acknowledge that no one knows what actually happened to that OP, including OP herself? Will you or will you not acknowledge that I personally never advised that OP of anything? Will you or will you not acknowledge that that OP expressly came in and said that she wanted the blame about her child to stop being used here by people like yourself? Will you or will you not acknowledge that you haven't the slightest clue as to her situation and never have? You're exploiting her. You're exploiting a sad event, against her will, without actual knowledge on your part, to push your cause. UGLY. I only hope that OP doesn't come back here and see this because she deserves to have respect and sympathy, not drama. Go get your drama fix somewhere else and have some decency, for god's sake.