Feeling Drawn to UP/UC - Page 2

[ElizabethE]

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

And as a side note, flame away.  I don't care.  I never commented on the other thread because I felt it inappropriate and would never want to rub salt in a wound.  I was angered by her callousness and told her something politically incorrect. {Edit} What did happen though should make people more aware of what they suggest to others.  I truly believe people ultimately choose where and how to birth their children based on love for their children and a desire to do what is right for themselves and their children.  I believe that loving choice can be UC and that can be a wonderful choice.  I also believe that can be a hospital birth or a home birth.  I am not one to judge birthing choices and haven't ever even posted in UC before.  Its not like I'm sitting snooping on UC posts hoping to discourage people from doing one.  I came across this thread in new posts though, and believe we need to take appropriate precautions in situations that seem obviously risky, and learn from things that have happened in the past, some of them very sad.  History of serious PPH don't seem to scream "ideal situation for UC" to me.  Sorry if that ticks people off. 

Get a clue.

Edited by ElizabethE - 5/23/11 at 5:36pm

[ElizabethE]

You can hide your true motives under a banner of actually caring about other women's safety all day long. It's a very thin veil.

[labortrials]

I think Paige's intuition is more valuable because she's actually carrying the baby in her body.  I do think that's different - not that I can scientifically prove that it's different.  I'm not saying that her husband shouldn't participate in the decision, but ultimately . . . well, I think the responsibility always falls on us since we physically and emotionally nurture this being from conception through and past birth.  It's the bliss and challenge of being a childbearing woman!

[ElizabethE]

Yeah Paige, and I think that you like most other women will just do what you've got to do and do what feels right. That's all anyone can really ask of us. :) Whatever you choose, who is anyone to judge?

[kama'aina mama]

Originally Posted by ElizabethE 

Yeah Paige, and I think that you like most other women will just do what you've got to do and do what feels right. That's all anyone can really ask of us. :) Whatever you choose, who is anyone to judge?

What "feels right"?  Interesting.  I have felt, since I became pregnant, that it fell to me to do what actually IS right, sometimes without regard to my feelings.  And to be honest I do judge parents who put their own feelings ahead of their kids needs... and I would judge myself even more harshly if I ever did. 

"Do what feels right."  Fascinating.

[sunshinemoma]

Paige it sounds like you are figuring things out!  And with so much time to spare too :)  I can relate to your dilemma altho circumstance and history is a bit different.  I hemorrhaged due to excessive medical interventions including extensive vaginal lacerations(episiotomies) But luckily did not need any transfusions, and did not suffer a seizure.  I can imagine how scary that must have been tho!  I did have a seizure years ago in the middle of a blood donation session, eek!)  I felt so weird and nauseas long afterwards but did not feel traumatized really whereas my sister who had witnessed it was extremely terrified!  haha..

Originally Posted by kama'aina mama 

What "feels right"?  Interesting.  I have felt, since I became pregnant, that it fell to me to do what actually IS right, sometimes without regard to my feelings.  And to be honest I do judge parents who put their own feelings ahead of their kids needs... and I would judge myself even more harshly if I ever did. 

"Do what feels right."  Fascinating.

Are you sure you are not taking this out of context?  Elizabeth can correct this if I'm wrong, but I read "do what feels right" to mean  "do what you feel IS right" or more specifically "do what IS right for your specific situation" which is very different from putting your own feelings ahead of a child's needs.  

I think maybe the usage of the word feeling might be causing a misunderstanding here?  

Is a feeling a helpful impression which can aid us in making wise decisions? Maybe, because it is a simple thought that sums up all the complex factors of an individual's circumstances which are more or less floating around in their minds(consciously and subconsciously)?  I think so, and these strong 'feelings' are often considered intuition.  

Or are feelings something totally separate from reality and what "IS right" Do you use the term to refer to pleasure?  

"Do what actually IS right..without regard to [your] feelings" Fascinating.  I mean, how is it that you decide what IS right?  I personally heavily rely on my feelings to tell me what is right in specific/unique situations...But then if you mean, "Do what actually IS right..without regard to your own pleasure"  Then YES.  I totally agree and I'm pretty certain Paige, and all the UC mom's here would agree.

One thing we both definitely agree on is that I too would judge myself very harshly if I put my own feelings(if you are using this term to mean pleasures) ahead of my childrens needs.  Heck I would feel awful if I put my feelings(emotional needs) ahead of my children's feelings...BUT how does this thread have anything to do with that?

The OP is definitely not putting her child's needs second to anything.  I think what is best for her situation can only be decided by her, and what is best for her situation will ultimately be best for everyone concerned.  Just my own opinion.  But I do believe if something TRULY feels right (feels right.  different than feeling pleasurable) then it most likely is right and the right choice for all involved.

Edited by sunshinemoma - 5/23/11 at 3:23pm

[ursusarctos]

Bravo sunshinemoma.

Paige, I am glad you are getting some clarity.

[zoebird]

PaigeKitten,

I like reading what you have to say here, and whatever your decision, you'll make the right one for your family.

In regards to the rest. . .

from what I've gathered in being in the UC community all these years is that UC is about personal choice and responsibility. UCers, in general, encourage people to follow their own thoughts, feelings, instincts, intuition, beliefs, education, experience, etc etc etc -- above the advices of anyone, including other UCers. This is why we always return to "follow your feelings/intuition/gut/opinion/etc" -- we encourage people to choose for themselves.

This opinion, of course, is very liberal. It not only supports and encourages those who are working on their UC process, but it also provides them with the freedom (and support of a community) to choose otherwise.

Because of this, and the very inherent risk in birth (of injury and death even if a woman does everything right and has all the bells and whistles of care available to her with a doctor doing the delivery in a state of the art hospital), there can be no blame on a given UCer for simply being encouraging of a woman to choose on her own mind (intuition, etc).

Just my opinion -- i have no idea about the outcomes or other posts you are talking about.

[Kelly1101]

.

Edited by Kelly1101 - 5/23/11 at 3:54pm

[ElizabethE]

Originally Posted by Kelly1101 

LMAO.  You're talking about someone else's drama fix?  
 

Kelly. I think there is a difference between me defending a mother and baby in a tragedy and others who come here specifically to berate and belittle others, particularly in the name of the mother's loss. I suppose if I just kept my mouth shut and didn't defend people, I'd somehow be being the good guy? Or, maybe it would just be more convenient for you, so you could go on being abusive towards people.

And, just the fact that you are "LYAO" during a pretty serious, grim topic shows the amount of respect and decency you and your cohorts bring to the table.

[APToddlerMama]

Originally Posted by ElizabethE 

Kelly. I think there is a difference between me defending a mother and baby in a tragedy and others who come here specifically to berate and belittle others, particularly in the name of the mother's loss. I suppose if I just kept my mouth shut and didn't defend people, I'd somehow be being the good guy? Or, maybe it would just be more convenient for you, so you could go on being abusive towards people.

And, just the fact that you are "LYAO" during a pretty serious, grim topic shows the amount of respect and decency you and your cohorts bring to the table.

You don't think calling someone a tool qualifies as belittling and berating?  And you think that to suggest that as a community we should take some responsibility for advising or not advising people to follow their intuition on a situation which poses multiple known risks...is belittling and berating?  I'm stepping out because this has turned into an argument, and yes, drama, and as it turns out, I am actually not interested in drama.  Are you familiar with the term projection? 

OP--I wish you the best.  I see that you are not interested in anything other than total support of UC despite history of PPH, seizure, and shock, and so I won't make any further suggestions.  I hope your birth is peaceful and easy no matter what you choose. 

[APToddlerMama]

Originally Posted by ElizabethE 

You can hide your true motives under a banner of actually caring about other women's safety all day long. It's a very thin veil.

And what is your true motive then?  UC is the only choice in all situations regardless of any risks that may arise? 

[Kelly1101]

.

Edited by Kelly1101 - 5/23/11 at 3:54pm

[Mothering]

This forum is a place to discuss unassisted childbirth. Members are welcome to share advice and experiences about unassisted childbirth. While we don't require members posting to this forum be pro-UC we do require that members not post with an agenda to derail, make accusations and point fingers.

There are way to many untoward, derailing, attacking and accusative posts here. Please edit to avoid losing your posting privileges. 

[ElizabethE]

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

You don't think calling someone a tool qualifies as belittling and berating?  Sure I do. But I didn't come here with that express purpose. And that is the difference between us. You say you aren't interested in drama when there is plenty of proof that you are... you are really looking very dishonest right about now. I'm merely defending the UC forum.  You dislike that. I won't apologize for it. I am not the one going around the internet and looking for fights. I came here much like Paige did-- seeking like minds.

And you think that to suggest that as a community we should take some responsibility for advising or not advising people to follow their intuition on a situation which poses multiple known risks...is belittling and berating? Here's an example of how you do that:

"OP--I wish you the best.  I see that you are not interested in anything other than total support of UC despite history of PPH, seizure, and shock, and so I won't make any further suggestions.  I hope your birth is peaceful and easy no matter what you choose."

In your mind, I can see how this looks responsible. But, it is ideologically opposed to UC. So again, be "responsible" all you like, but chastising us for the very nature of this forum is weird.

You asked me what my motives on here are. I only ever came here to help and be helped. Period. And it did not involve people who used their spare time attempting to derail that which they are already opposed to in the first place. That's pointless drama and a lost cause. You have places you can go to dish and complain about people like us... so do it. This was never intended to be one of those places. Let women who believe in UC have a safe haven and stop shoving your beliefs down their throats. "Projecting".

[Paigekitten]

OP--I wish you the best.  I see that you are not interested in anything other than total support of UC despite history of PPH, seizure, and shock, and so I won't make any further suggestions.  I hope your birth is peaceful and easy no matter what you choose. 

I find this incredibly insulting, and I've tried to not get all upset about the craziness.  Maybe if you actually took two seconds to stop blaming and arguing and actually read what I've been posting and asking you would realize that your assumption is no where even close to reality.

SHEESH.

If I ever die in childbirth in a hospital, don't worry, I'll make sure not to blame you for advising it.

[Paigekitten]

On a more positive note, last night I was telling DH about this thread, and about the idea of UC.  We talked about how I've felt about having people at my birth, especially coming and going.  He didn't have much to say, so I figure he's processing and in a few days we'll talk more.

[zoebird]

Paige,

I think it's an interesting process for a couple, and I do hope that you continue to come here to bounce ideas around. My husband 'got it' right away -- it just made sense to him -- but for others, there's a lot of social programming to overcome (for men and women). It's like, looking at things from a whole a new way and sometimes you look at it and go "no way!" and sometimes you look at it and go "yes way!" 

It's always interesting to play with the edge of resistance within ourselves, which can allow us to both open to new possibilities and/or come to a more determined position as to who we are and where we stand.

[Paigekitten]

So DH's reaction to UC was really fearful.  He really really wants someone trained in neonatal resuscitation and with medical equipment for PPH present at the birth.  The more I think about it the more I want a more private birth, like, just me and baby.  We are actually moving in with my parents before the baby comes, which means I am switching to a midwife I have not yet met.  I researched the hospital in the area, and I am NOT going there, so I certainly want a midwife to at least stitch up any tears or administer Rhogam if needed.  The midwife we've picked there does homebirths and birth center births.  My mother likes the idea of a birth center.  She cleaned out the birth pool at my second birth, and doesn't really want to again, since I am at her house, that's certainly something I need to respect.  When I mentioned UC/UP she didn't really understand why I would want to, with a birth center and midwife available.  I just, I can't really explain it, I just want this to be between baby and me.  It would be nice if I had a super fast birth and could just hide out in the bathroom or my bedroom until I was ready to call everyone in.  I suppose it's possible, my first was 9 hours, and my second was 6 hours. I guess then I don't get a waterbirth...

If nothing else, I do want to get a fetoscope though, DH said he wouldn't want to stop prenatal appointments because it's really important for him to hear the heartbeat and KNOW everything is okay, since he isn't feeling the baby move all the time like I am.  I feel like the more I do myself, even while still respecting his boundaries, the happier I will be.

Anyway, I know nothing really changed, but I just needed to share again, don't really have anywhere else to do it. : )