DP just found the two girls kissing...help! - Page 2

[swd12422]

I don't think anyone is advocating allowing that kind of behavior to continue, and it's up to the parents of the 7-year-old to  figure out if it was a one-time "experiment" or something more. But just because YOU didn't do it, doesn't make it not normal. My kid has never, ever thrown a temper tantrum at the grocery store. Does that mean that every kid who does is somehow not normal? My kid has never heard of Superman. Does that make the kid who not only dressed up as Superman for Halloween, but wouldn't take off the costume for months afterward, not normal? Every kid is different, and where their imaginations take them and how they play are different too.

Different doesn't equal bad, and nothing that has been posted here sounds like it could ONLY be the result of abuse. (Could be, but that's not the only explanation, or even the most logical one.) The kid peed. He didn't force her to do anything graphic, he peed. I wouldn't want it (or allow it) to happen again, but it's not necessarily as sexual as we as adults can make it out to be. Kids know grownups are naked during sex. Some talk about how "the man pees in the lady to make a baby." He went for the most logical orifice. Just because we all happen to know about oral sex doesn't mean HE did. That's just one possible explanation. Obviously, only the kid himself knows what his motivations were and what he was thinking they were doing. Was he doing exactly what he thought grownups do? Was he just trying to simulate something he saw (by accident or as a victim)? We don't know. But assuming that he's a victim and it's all so horrible is jumping the gun.

No, I wouldn't "blow it off" but I certainly wouldn't be holding up abuse as the only reason a kid would do something like that. And no, I wouldn't let my baby play with him alone anymore. But I'm not sure I would immediately demonize the poor kid either. If he was abused, he does need us. He doesn't need to be ostracized.

[dovey]

deleted

Edited by dovey - 6/10/11 at 9:55pm

[dovey]

deleted for privacy.

Edited by dovey - 6/10/11 at 9:52pm

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by swd12422 

 The kid peed. He didn't force her to do anything graphic, he peed. I wouldn't want it (or allow it) to happen again, but it's not necessarily as sexual as we as adults can make it out to be.

....But I'm not sure I would immediately demonize the poor kid either. If he was abused, he does need us. He doesn't need to be ostracized.

He peed IN HER MOUTH. And we don't know how graphic it was because the poster didn't say so. We don't know what position he put her in first, we don't if he told her to get on her knees. We don't know if he put is penis inside her mouth, we don't know he had her suck on it. We don't if he told her to sallow.

And he doesn't need friendship, he needs therapy. It's not normal.

Really, very seriously, not normal.

What happened is sickening. And if my post was shocking to you in any way, it's because you didn't think through what happened to that poor little girl. 

[swd12422]

Silly me for assuming that if the poster had known more graphic details, she would have shared them to give a complete picture. And I never said peeing in someone's mouth is normal, I said that some misinterpreted experimentation is normal. Not that he should be allowed to continue the behavior. But it's not necessarily a sign of abuse, or disturbance or anything other than a kid's interpretation of something that he is trying out. Not NECESSARILY. Maybe it could be. That's for the parents to investigate, not for strangers to read between the lines when we have no first-hand knowledge of a situation. Nowhere did I say everyone should just relax and let it go and blow it off.

And thanks for making assumptions about me and my feelings, but I wasn't shocked at all at your post. I merely disagree. And I am thinking about the little girl (and the two girls in the original OP), and nowhere have I said that we should ignore them and not talk to them about what happened so they know how to handle themselves in the future. I simply chose the one point about the little boy and his intentions, b/c I feel it's very easy to read it one way and not consider that there are, in fact, other possibilities. It's called being open-minded.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by swd12422 

I said that some misinterpreted experimentation is normal.

how many ways are there to interpret peeing in another human beings mouth? It's really not something that most 7 year olds would come up with or need to be told is a no-no. And the parents didn't tell him it was a no-no, they said to stick with girls his own age and in private.

[Auntie Sapphire]

Originally Posted by babygirlie 

The normal age for kids to start having sex i snow 9 years old. 

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Could you say more about it?

[dovey]

 

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

how many ways are there to interpret peeing in another human beings mouth? It's really not something that most 7 year olds would come up with or need to be told is a no-no. And the parents didn't tell him it was a no-no, they said to stick with girls his own age and in private.

First of all, I have no idea exactly what all his parents told him, so I would assume that you probably don't either.  Peeing in another human being's mouth is exactly something that some kids do experimentally.  My partner's brother did it to him when he was a kid too.  Gross?  Yes.  Healthy?  No.  Abnormal? Definitely not.  Kids experiment with pee.  It's one of the things they do.  Some kids are pee-ers more than others.  It doesn't mean the same thing that it does when you're grown up.   

No one is trying to say that the behavior is okay.  Obviously, this was disturbing to both sets of parents.  But ask yourself this:  is it better to ostracize the boy, shame both of them, break off their friendship, freak them out and make them feel like perverts, or is it better to take care of our own adult issues ourselves, and calmly help the kids establish healthy sexual boundaries, protecting them so that it doesn't happen again?

[Linda on the move]

never mind.

[loraxc]

The normal age for kids to start having sex i snow 9 years old.

Uh.....cite your source. Come on. I work in family science research and there is NO evidence that this is true.

[PrettyButterfly]

Did an important post get deleted? what is this about a kid peeing in another kids mouth? NOT NORMAl! This kid probably saw something he shouldn't have seen and thought it was normal or something much more is going on with this kid. I know that some play and exploration is very normal but we still need to tell them what is ok and what is not ok. I remember that my cousin and I were going to get married when we grew up. of course that never happened. my ds 3 and dd4 play mommy and daddy all the time. They keep their cloths on and they don't kiss.. they hug. my ds actually would rather play mommy than daddy but thats just because im a single mom and he sees what i do more than his dad. i have had to keep them from bathing together just because they are both curious about each others bodies. my son plays with his penis and my daughter will watch and they always ask why they are different. my son asks why the doctor cut off mine. ( i think that question came from me having a mole removed by a doctor). so a lot of play is normal but peeing in someones mouth is not normal in any stretch of the imagination.

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

He peed IN HER MOUTH. And we don't know how graphic it was because the poster didn't say so. We don't know what position he put her in first, we don't if he told her to get on her knees. We don't know if he put is penis inside her mouth, we don't know he had her suck on it. We don't if he told her to sallow.

And he doesn't need friendship, he needs therapy. It's not normal.

Really, very seriously, not normal.

What happened is sickening. And if my post was shocking to you in any way, it's because you didn't think through what happened to that poor little girl. 

[bonamarq]

I missed somehow the original post about the peeing - but this much is clear to me - ANY kind of sexual experimentation or behavior calls for CAREFUL INVESTIGATION - and by that I mean do not assume abuse but find out what is going on - I agree that it COULD be normal experimentation - needs to be corrected and addressed but not NECESSARILY and AUTOMATICALLY  a sign of abuse - boys will pee any where they can - they play target practice with it - as I said I missed the post where this was explained -

But also consider this - a close friend of mine caught her two children 3 and 6? at the time - where the older girl was kissing her little  brother's penis - Friend is ADAMANT that they were never exposed to any kind of sexual material before this (media free house, etc) Yes she corrected it and had the whole private parts discussion but my point is some kids will do things that we cannot imagine where 'they get it from'

I played some pretty sexual games with a friend of mine and yes it made me feel weird and I wonder now if she was abused? I would never have thought to do some of the things we did - but I also liked and was a little thrilled by it at the time....and I would have been MORTIFIED if we were caught and someone told my mom....

[Mizelenius]

Does your DP's ex have access to your step-daughter?  If so, does she have boyfriends?

I think the fact that she wanted to be secretive is not automatically a red flag, but something to keep an eye on.  I agree that one of the biggest issues here is your DD's willingness to go along with something that made her feel weird.

I also know that this is part of personality.  Some children would NEVER do this.  It is really-- and this sounds sort of weird-- but how sensual the child is.  I do not mean that in a sexual way.  Some people are truly just more emotional than others: http://www.sengifted.org/articles_social/Lind_OverexcitabilityAndTheGifted.shtml

[kayleesmom]

wow hugs to all i think you handled the situation well with your dd.

[LROM]

It bothers me greatly that for so many who've posted, there is this certainty that this is normal and there's nothing further to explore or worry about.

There is simply not enough info to be sure this is normal.  Can girls their age explore bodies and kiss and all that and it be normal?  Absolutely.

But SECRECY is a learned behavior.  Kids have no reason to be secret about things unless they've learned that either someone has a problem with it or whoever first exposed them to it told them it was a secret.  I'm *not* saying that the stepdd's secrecy about it means she's definitely being abused.  But I see waaaaaay too many kids who ARE abused and this pattern of replicating certain things and emphasizing secrecy or feeling shame - that is almost always a sign of something not right.  Again, it doesn't automatically mean it's from abuse, but it IS worth looking further into.

And I'll just say this plainly: her reaction to the idea of telling her mom bothers me a lot too.  Mostly because, in the event that the stepdd is being abuse (and especially if it's a boyfriend of her mom's or someone her mom has around the house - a relative or male friend), it's very very possible the girl has already tried to bring it up and it's been dismissed, which is traumatic in a whole different way for actual abuse victims.

To me, from the original post, OP my best advice for you would be to take the exact same approach to your stepdd that you took to your own, even though their reactions were different.  If your DH can do it calmly and non-alarmist, maybe it's better if he does it, but if he can't, it should be you (with his support/consent).  Ask your stepdd why she felt like it had to be a secret, ask her who else she does it with, and one of the most important questions: ask her if anyone has every done any touching/taking of clothes/kissing with her and told her to keep it a secret.  If she hesitates or says yes, tell her it's ok for her to tell you even if someone else told her not to tell.  That's the only way to get to the bottom of it if her initial answers or reaction to talking more about it are further concerning.

But what is most awesome about how you talked to your daughter, and how I hope you or your DH will talk to stepdd, is how calm and non-accusatory, matter of fact and non-alarmist you were.  That is key to getting honest answers.  And in the hopefully unlikely (but possible) event stepdd is being abused, she has likely been told that if she tells it'll be HER who gets in trouble, bad things will happen, and it'll all be her fault.

I know this post may sound alarmist in itself, but the situation, the secrecy, and the reaction to talking to stepdd's mom all tell me "there's enough that you don't want to just let it go without talking to stepdd"

Oh - last thing - some people said talk to stepdd's mom.  I'd talk to stepdd first, see how you feel or how your dh feels, then decide what next step (or no next step) should be taken.  There are cases where the mom is the abuser, or where the mom is aware of the abuse but is so attached to the abuseer, she silences and even punishes the child for bringing it up.  Even blames the child sometimes.  Fact is, maybe there's nothing going on here, in which case there's not much to say to mom.... or maybe if you talk to stepdd about it, there will be things you want to ask the mom about.  But don't go to mom as a first step or as "the way to figure out if something is wrong", because of something bad is happening, mom has reasons to not necessarily be up front with you and to dismiss it if she was aware of it.

Hopefully, this is just plain old experimentation and nothing mroe to it.  But secrecy and freaking out are worth checking futher into, because they can be signs of something seriously bad.  They are not certain signs of it - there may be many reasons for the secrecy or freak out.  But as parents you should figure out which camp it falls in, and also that helps you protect your dd.

Good luck, I hope you check in and end up feeling very comfy that it's nothing.  But also feel good because you followed up.

[babygirlie]

Just found out a close friend had  her kids 4 and 5 raped by their 9 yr old cousin. Yeah I'm adament being sexual at a young age is NOT innoccent!

[Imakcerka]

Since sex and not good sex is being exposed on TV and in music, it is normal for younger kids to experiment and yes act out sex. I was also abused as a kid by my 12 year female babysitter who as it turns out was abused by her cousin who was her babysitter and it started as what you all are calling "experimenting".

Playing house is one thing, playing husband and wife with your clothes off with physical contact is another. Not all kids know what is and what is not ok. It's our job to teach them that. I talk about sex with DD1 and she's 8. I explain it's function and why mom and dad do it. I explain the emotional side of it and ensure she understands that under no circumstance is it ever okay to touch others the way a mom and dad would touch each other. I wish with all my heart these conversations were had with me. What the OP describes is a red flag. That's exactly how it started for me. I'm just glad she caught it early.

Also yes kids are having sex much earlier. I had a bus stop for the JR High in my front yard until my brother caught to sixth graders going at it on the side of our house behind the bushes. I used to let the kids sit on my porch if it were raining. I had the stop moved across the street after that. 12?! they were 12! Also it was 3 boys and one girl. They were apparently all taking turns. Really? My brother found the girls parents by following her home and talked to her mom. Her mom acted like she didn't care. HEART BREAKING! He was pretty mad, how could she not care?