Need advice on how to handle situation with friend's child

[luckymamaoftwo]

My DD is 3 and our little friend is the same age. Pretty much every time we're together he has several moments of screaming "NOOOOO!" at my DD when she reaches out to touch something of his (mind you, she isn't intending to take the item, simply interested in seeing it or touching it).  His outbursts seemed to scare her in the beginning but now I think she's "used" to them. Also, he refuses to share or take turns with anything that is his or even not his (like at a park or a play area). I feel like I've failed miserably in how I react to the situation, on my DD's behalf.  His mother tends to take over the situation and I've taken the back seat, but I'm looking to get a new perspective on how to handle these conflicts peacefully and fairly.

Example: the other day "friend" was playing at a sensory table at a group play area. He walked away for several minutes, leaving the shovels and other items.  My DD and another boy took up play at the table, friend returned and screamed "NOOO! They took my things!" His mother, my friend whom i do enjoy very much, swooped in and tried to talk him down. Then she tried to find some new items for him to join in with, but he was still upset that my DD and boy #2 were now playing with the shovels, etc.  Director at the play space stepped in and said that he walked away from the toys so his friends now had a chance to play with them.  Friend seemed to be okay, resumed play with some other toy and all was fine. For a few minutes anyway! He returned to the sensory table and started crying/whining that my DD had the shovel and he wanted it.  His Mom again came to assess the situation as did I. I asked DD if she would mind trading toys with friend. "No" she said emphatically. Ok..fair enough, right? He left the toys, she was now enjoying them...should I expect her to trade with him just because he's having a fit over it?  Well, I kept trying. "It's nice to take turns and perhaps you'd like to try this other scoop so friend can play with that shovel?"  Nope..no luck and I understood where she was coming from. She is great at sharing so I felt like this was ok behavior to not want to give the toy up.

So his mom said, "well he did have it first" then looked at my DD and said, "We need to take turns with our friends." So my sweet DD traded the toys and I could see the disappointment in her face but friend was happy for a brief moment (although within less than one minute he set it down and walked away from that coveted toy).

What did I teach her in that moment? That she needs to give up or trade a toy just because somebody loudly protests that they want something she has? I feel like I totally failed a great teaching moment. I don't want to cause conflict between our good friends, but....I want to teach DD to stand up for herself because she is already fairly passive and I can see her easily getting pushed around. I haven't had to face many situations like this but it's time to get some good skills.

Would appreciate advice!!

[ElliesMomma]

i guess if your friend is telling your daughter to "share with her friends," then she would find it alright for you to tell her son the same thing?

if NOT i would definitely cut back on spending time with them, at least for awhile or until he learns to share.

does he react that strongly when OTHER kids (ie, ones he doesn't already know) take "his stuff"? or is he doing that because he somehow senses that he can dominate your daughter this way? especially if his mom is backing him up.

frankly i wouldn't want to put up with it if i were you. i would simply move on to spending time with other people, ones with whom your daughter really seems to click.

[chaimom]

I have twin boys, so sharing has always been on my radar.  My rule has always been that we take turns.  But that doesn't mean you have to give up something you're playing with.  When you're done with something, it's someone else's turn.  But if you're still playing with it, they have to wait their turn.  My boys were never allowed to hover and whine in order to speed up the transaction! :)

I probably would have done what you did given the circumstances, but I can't see why you'd want to be around that boy.  It doesn't sound very pleasant.  I would give the playdates a break for many, many months to see if he learns to share a bit better. If you like the mom, schedule something with her without the children.

[Katwoman]

I don't think you failed a good teaching moment.  I just think the moment was for you, not her.  You know you're not comfortable with the way you handled things and now you can handle it differently. 

You did reinforce that if a child is loud or persistent enough, they'll get their way.  But you won't next time.  You need to cut it off negotiations before they start.  After he was "placated" - for a lack of a better word - and wondered off, that should be the end of it.  When he returns I think it would be smart to re-establish the boundaries set at the table.  Something like "we're glad you've come to play, there are the free toys."  If he says anything about the shovel you can reply with "yeah, it is a great toy and I'm sure you're going to be excited to have a turn once DD is done."  "It's cool for friends to take turns."

We also are into turns in our house.  It's crazy - in my opinion - to look a child in the eye and essentially say "I'm glad you're having fun, but now go find something else to do because the toy is going to someone else - even though you're playing nicely and having a great time." 

If you're friend tries to say anything about sharing you can commiserate with her "yeah, it's hard at this age to get the taking turns concept.  They all get it eventually though."  In a very I've-been-there kind of voice.

The only way to encourage your DD to stand up for her is to let her do it and celebrate it.  (It's hard though, often times as women we are pleasers.  But if we're going to break that cycle with our kids, we have to start with change in ourselves.)

[Just1More]

Sometimes when things are out of my control, lije with someone else's child, I say, " That little boy isn't being very nice and it isn't much fun to play here anymore.  Let's give him the shovel and go x."  And as I'm talking, I am gently taking the shovel, scooping up my child, and heading off to do something extremely fun. 

Sometimes, instead of conflict resolution, I think the lesson can be, "i'm bigger than this, and Mama will always be my friend."

[mamazee]

Just feel free to say something like, "She's playing with it now. You can have a turn when she's done." It's all about confidence. I think we can over think these small interactions - it won't matter in the long run - but I would say something next time. And if you get together with them it sounds like there will be a next time. LOL. So I guess I wouldn't get too upset about it, but on the other hand I'd make sure she keeps the shovel next time too.

[luv my 2 sweeties]

ITA with Mamazee.  It sounds like "friend's" mom is doing her best and cares about him learning to get along, share and have fun.  I bet she would welcome your help -- sometimes children respond with less resistance to other friendly adults. 

A technique that you might try with them next time:  When Friend cries out and tries to grab something out of dd's hand, step in decisively and get down at his level, gently preventing him from taking the toy.  Encourage your dd to stay right there to talk about it.  Reflect Friend's feelings for him:  "You want to play with the truck, but DD has it right now."  Then give him acceptable words to use.  "You could ask DD if you can play with it when she is done.  Go ahead and ask her.  Say, 'Can I play with the truck when you're done with it?' "  Encourage him to say this, then encourage dd to give an answer.  My experience is that the child who has less trouble with sharing will respond very positively, saying "yes" and then only playing with the toy for a very short time before giving it up.  In fact, they often give up the toy right then and there without complaint.   When Friend gets the toy he wants, point out to him how his words worked.  "You asked nicely for a turn and it worked!" 

Variation:  if 2 children are actively fighting over a toy, temporarily take custody of the toy, promising to keep it safe while they talk about it.  This usually calms them both down enough to practice the conversation. 

If he is too upset, this technique may not work.  His mom will probably want to step in at that point, but the general response can be to stay with him at his level and affirm his feelings of frustration.  "It's hard to wait your turn sometimes, isn't it?  But I know you can do it."  OR  "I seems like you are feeling really frustrated.  You see someone with a toy and you feel like you want it right now.  Sharing can be hard, but you can do it.  I can stay here with you to help you wait.  Sometimes we need help when we are learning."

I know it sounds weird, but IME it really works with preschoolers.  Pretty soon, they are able to articulate some of these situations for themselves.  He may simply not know how to ask for a turn!

Above all, remember that they are only 3, and that boys are commonly less socially advanced than girls, so it's not surprising that he is like this.  It doesn't mean he is spoiled or selfish, it just means he has some maturing to do.  You'll probably see a big change as he gets closer to 4.  

[oaktreemama]

So his mom said, "well he did have it first" then looked at my DD and said, "We need to take turns with our friends."

Well from your post it sounds like "we" is everyone else but her little boy. I am actually kind of steamed on your and your DD's behalf. I hate this kind of passive aggressive Barney "we need to do this" crap.

I would have responded with, 'Yup we need to take turns and when DD is done your son can have his turn."

[sagelove]

Originally Posted by luv my 2 sweeties 

Above all, remember that they are only 3, and that boys are commonly less socially advanced than girls, so it's not surprising that he is like this.  It doesn't mean he is spoiled or selfish, it just means he has some maturing to do.  You'll probably see a big change as he gets closer to 4.  

ITA with this. I have a son with similar issues and it is hard for both of us. Sharing is very difficult for him and he tends to escalate easily.

[luckymamaoftwo]

Wow, great responses with great suggestions! Many thanks for giving me some new "tools" to deal with these situations. I will keep checking back. 

[luckymamaoftwo]

Originally Posted by oaktreemama 

Well from your post it sounds like "we" is everyone else but her little boy. I am actually kind of steamed on your and your DD's behalf. I hate this kind of passive aggressive Barney "we need to do this" crap.

I would have responded with, 'Yup we need to take turns and when DD is done your son can have his turn."

I agree, I'm not a fan of the passive aggressiveness directed toward my DD but am letting it roll off my back, so to speak, this time because she is a friend.

[hakeber]

Sometimes it matters and is worth it, sometimes it's good to teach empathy and ask ourselves...do I really need this so much?  Or am I holding on for the principle of the matter or just to torture said party?

I think what you did was fine, except for the fact that your friend said "well DS did have it first." What the? 

I would have probably said something Snarky like "Well DD was born first, so technically she had access and called dibs on everything." and rolled my eyes at my friend at if to say "seriously?  Are you kidding me?"  But my friends get my sense of humor.

Between the ages of 2 and 4 my SIL and play group friends and I pretty much tried to stay out of it unless it got physical.  If it was just loud shouting we always said from the side lines "Hey, Pal you can wait until X is done, go play with something else, or sit with me for a cuddle for a while.  What do you think?  Wanna read a story?"

I can only speak from the point of view of having a niece who did this sort of thing to my son, and just trying to distract and engage her away until DS was ready to move on or if I felt DS had moved from using the item for enjoyment to using the item to taunt his cousin I'd say, "Okay Benjamin, time to swap or have a snack.  Which one?"

I think since your friend feel comfortable telling your DD what "we" do, you ought to feel free to tell he DS what we do in our society as well, like wait our turn, and ask nicely, and choose a better choice.  I think it was about 3.5 that I started talking to DS about choices in these sort of situations. I'd say; "Well honey, that boy is using the swing right now so we can choose to be sad and mope, or do something fun while we wait.  Do you want to be sad and mad and miserable or do you want o have some fun with me?"  He probably didn't start really consistently making better choices until he was 4.5 or 5, but he had the frame work for the idea that he was empowered to meet his own need for fun, and didn't need to rely on others bending to his will.  It is something that has stuck with him, so you might try it from that angle as well.  This might atually help him feel powerful without torturing your DD.

That sounds like a fun play space!

[MsFortune]

Originally Posted by luckymamaoftwo 

I agree, I'm not a fan of the passive aggressiveness directed toward my DD but am letting it roll off my back, so to speak, this time because she is a friend.

Could your friend have felt like she was helping you out?  You were trying to convince your DD to share the toy, so what friend did could be seen as trying to support / assist you.  

Otherwise, I agree with the other posters.  Live and learn, and help your daughter say no next time.  

[One_Girl]

I didn't encourage my dd to give things back when a friend walked away from things.  I would say "You walked away and were done so she is having a turn, when she is done I will let you know, would you like to use/do _________ instead?"  I would bring things that my dd could have as her own to use, go to only public spaces when I knew my friends had a child who had a hard time sharing in their own space, and I would take my dd and we would leave when the playdate was just to miserable.  I have also had success turning a bad situation around by pointing out that it hurt my dd's feelings.  You might consider this for after he screams "It hurts her feelings when you yell like that.  Please wait your turn/say this instead/show her what she can play with." 

[luckymamaoftwo]

Originally Posted by One_Girl 

I didn't encourage my dd to give things back when a friend walked away from things.  I would say "You walked away and were done so she is having a turn, when she is done I will let you know, would you like to use/do _________ instead?"  I would bring things that my dd could have as her own to use, go to only public spaces when I knew my friends had a child who had a hard time sharing in their own space, and I would take my dd and we would leave when the playdate was just to miserable.  I have also had success turning a bad situation around by pointing out that it hurt my dd's feelings.  You might consider this for after he screams "It hurts her feelings when you yell like that.  Please wait your turn/say this instead/show her what she can play with." 

I like this and will try it.  He's quite the screamer so calmly stating this may really help send the message to him. 

[sunnygir1]

I'm surprised that some people have said you should stop hanging out with them.

I guess, to me, ditching a friend because he has trouble sharing (at the age of 3, especially) is a strange way to react.  If you like the mom, and your kids are friends, I think it is definitely worth it to both parents and children to work through this.

My dd's best friend and her mixed like oil and water for at least a year (maybe 2-3 years old?).  They had trouble sharing.  Fortunately, her friend's mom (my friend) is awesome and totally engaged in helping them work things out.  We weren't often able to just let them work it out because there was a lot of yelling, grabbing toys, pushing, and sometimes hitting.  We definitely spent a lot of time right there with them helping them express themselves and come up with ideas to solve the problems.

We did some of the things already mentioned.  We also would meet on neutral ground so neither of the kids had to share their home/room/toys.  We also used timed turns for especially coveted toys.  If they both really wanted to play with something, we would time them for 1-5 minutes (depending on what the thing was) and then have them trade.  I think it really helped them make the leap from "I want this thing" to "We both want it and to help my friend not feel sad I'm going to share".

I didn't do this much with dd because she isn't particularly attached to certain objects, but my friend would help her dd prepare for our visits by having her choose some toys that she didn't feel that she wanted to share that day, and they would put them away for the visit.

Now, at 4, they are much better at working through things on their own.

[Marissamom]

there seems to be some interesting ideas about sharing that I've come across before, one is that the older child should always give things to the younger child, another is that girls should give things to boys because it's their job to keep the peace, and lastly, whoever is the loudest gets the toy. I don't agree with any of these, I don't think that a kid should be forced to give something they are playing with to someone else unless it is a trade they are happy with. in that situation, they boy had walked away from the toys, signaling that he was done playing with him and ending his turn, so should have had to wait until they were open again. maybe you should talk to your friend about what sharing means when you are together so that you are on the same page?

[luv my 2 sweeties]

Originally Posted by Marissamom 

I don't think that a kid should be forced to give something they are playing with to someone else unless it is a trade they are happy with. in that situation, they boy had walked away from the toys, signaling that he was done playing with him and ending his turn, so should have had to wait until they were open again. maybe you should talk to your friend about what sharing means when you are together so that you are on the same page?

Ah, you make it sound so simple!  As a simple statement, what you say is true.  When confronted with 2 real live 3 year olds, one or both of whom are unhappy to the point of screaming or sobbing, you need more than "should".  Children have to *learn* that walking away from a toy means it's fair game for other children.  Adults need to help them learn this, while at the same time having compassion for how painful this lesson can be for some children.  The children who have more trouble with this are in no way "less than" the children who have less trouble -- they are just less convenient for us grown-ups who have to endure the tears and spend the time teaching. 

I also want to speak up a little for the other mom.  From the OP's description, it sounds like she is mostly on-the-ball.  Let's stipulate that she made a mistake in instructing OP's dd to share in this particular instance.  I think it's easy to under-estimate how hard it is to be the mom of the LO who always struggles with sharing.  No one likes to see their kid always upset and not having fun, especially if the playmate seldom seems to have the same issue.  Maybe she felt like the fact that her ds walked away for a while was a big step in the right direction for him and wanted him to have "success" with that to reinforce it as a positive thing.  (Instead, when he came back, he still could not have a turn.  Understandable, but you can see how it would be hard for him.)  I would not take the other mom to task over this one incident if she usually makes an effort to enforce sharing with her ds.  Give her the benefit of the doubt, I say.  Maybe the lesson for the OP's dd isn't that she must be a doormat, but rather that sometimes when life isn't fair, we can handle it with grace.  (Again, assuming based on the first post that this is not a *frequent* problem with this other mom.)

[midnightwriter]

If it was my 3 yo who wanted to play with just recently left toys (a couple of minutes?) I'd be sure to double check with the child who played with those toys just 2-3 minutes ago. "Are you done with the sand toys?" Because in my mind, a child who walked away for a couple of minutes hasn't necessarily abandoned the toys. Without this kind of double checking, I agree with the other mom--her child did have them first, and in his mind, hasn't gave away his turn yet. Not sure whether I would verbalise this though, in the situation--I can see the other child's perspective as well. To her, the toys were left alone, and she started playing with them. I'd try to make this point to my child--telling him that because he left the toys unattended, it was someone else's turn now, and he should wait for his.

I also think that if someone is really upset over wanting a toy, it is not necesssarily a bad lesson to be empathetic and give up your turn.

[sunnygir1]

I really like the last two posts, and I was going to say that I often encourage my dd to give the toy to the other child who's having a hard time.  I don't make her do it, but I talk to her about how the other child is feeling sad about it, and maybe she wants to share to help him feel better -- especially if the other child is younger than her.  These are important life skills.

If my husband and I both want something, we talk about it and decide together what is best -- one of us gives in.  I agree with pps that girls shouldn't be raised to feel that that person always has to be them, but we also shouldn't raise them to believe that things will always be fair and there is always an easy solution that makes everyone happy, because that just isn't the case.