preschool with much younger kids? - Page 5

[serenbat]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

"I don't know"- it's not demeaning

It's not demeaning if the tone of voice is appropriate, but it's also not an explanation.

I do not know---------is is better to lie?

I do not know, is it medical, emotional, parenting, etc--------really? I am dealing with a three year old--------I do know and that is a fine answer-sorry this does not live up to explanations---this suffices for my child

again, I am not forcing interaction and we are not talking about some big major issue here

[serenbat]

 "does nothing." 

I do not say to my son, I did not post that I did----

does nothing refers to the countless times we have talked about this

did you even read what I wrote? it doesn't seem so

you are not part of our private conversation yet you seem to insinuate you know what I say-how is that?

Then explain it to him so that he can understand, in a manner that isn't dismissive and belittling, that doesn't use terms like "does nothing." Because, as has repeatedly been pointed out in this thread ... you just never know: a child who looks like he "does nothing" may in fact be very intelligent, or even very verbal. Or maybe not ... but that doesn't mean he "does nothing." He's just in the midst of a different developmental and educational trajectory than your child. 

this is not the issue, has nothing to do with it and does not need explanation like you are suggesting---you are so far off base-why do you keep trying to make it something that it is not?

We just spend eight weeks in a program and for the most part only two children came on a regular base that were my sons age---------no talking, no interaction, no response my child ended up spend the time with the helper who talked to him------how often was I to explain and explain this to my child? there was no warm up, no get to know up, they sat there, my child joined the older children often (2+ years advance) and I can talk and talk and change the words and still my child does not get it.

I really do not care how gifted another child is or is not, when my child can not even say hello, toss a ball or sign with this child, no interaction is going on here- it is not a positive situation. 

These two sat off to the side and the parents only asked how old are son was and made a face at my DH. They didn't have any interaction with anyone else either.

do you need examples of other situations like this?

I would love for my 3 year to totally get this--but again he is 3

[serenbat]

with the uninformed explanations that I am also giving my child (so this seem to be according to here) -

again, I do not know the reason a child is acting the way they are-----

I do not know if is as just as simple as "everyone does things at a different time"

I don't know if it is a hearing loss, spectrum issue, "gifted" related, or a disability, etc.

What I do know he is three, and my three year olds talks, and I do not want him to say any thing in public that would in any way hurt the feelings of the child or the parent

that is why we say what we do, so he can understand and so that it does not become an issue

my child made it clear about food choices in a store one day and why we buy what we do and let me tell you the other adult was not happy to hear it, I am not going to lie but I am not going to make-up and run the risk at THIS TIME of my child asking the parent or the child - there is a time and place that is age appropriate this also is not about "main-streaming" either, as stated we do our best to find environments that are best suited for my child, he does far better with 4+ most of what we have access to are grouped as 2 & 3's

[Roar]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

I know that I do know he is three, and my three year olds talks, and I do not want him to say any thing in public that would in any way hurt the feelings of the child or the parent

I'm confused. The most often given explanation here was "different kids learn things at different times."  I might throw in "what are you working on right now? That's right skipping and your sister is working on playing with her feet, I'm working on learning to knit continental. We all have different stuff we are working on." That is not, as you suggested, a dissertation nor does it contain anything that is inappropriate to repeat. It is a perfectly reasonable thing for a child to understand that we all have our own unique goals and learning trajectory. And, if we decide to only befriend people who are developing exactly like we are the world is going to a lonely and boring place.

And, as you are working on developing tolerance, it may be good to remember that yes, some people's three year olds enjoy dissertations and they live in the real world too. My highly verbal child loved any amount I would talk about any question. Yet, he was still open to playing with kids who weren't even if, gasp, they were wearing diapers.

[serenbat]

for the mom's of the non-verbal toddlers-how much did you child want to be asked questions by a verbal child?

I find most are really not into answering that's why we are teaching just to say hello

did you child want lots of questions directed straight at them as to why they will not talk? did this make them feel?

I also find lot of parents that are none to keen on answering questions by my three year old

I have in fact gotten lots of rude questions directed at me about our son

"did you do my baby can talk?" " why did you push your son?" in reference to his advancement, etc

none seem to thrilled when a two year old is talking in sentences and yours in not uttering a word

at parks, most just want to talk on their phones and get a break-not explain to my child why theirs is not talking

and at programs, they are mostly their for their own "mommy time" with their friends so they can have a break

[itsmyturn]

I'm beginning to feel Iike I logged into cafemom LOL

[loraxc]

"did you do my baby can talk?" " why did you push your son?" in reference to his advancement, etc

none seem to thrilled when a two year old is talking in sentences and yours in not uttering a word

I have been in awkward situations where my young toddler was talking up a storm to other kids who did not talk. People have generally said things like, "Wow, how old is he/she?" or "He/she is really verbal!" or stuff like that. But no one ever asked me if I pushed them in response to them just...talking.?? "My Baby Can Talk"? Is this a real thing?

If I see/saw my children trying to engage a child who seems shy or silent, and the other kid seems clearly uneasy, I might say something like "Maybe he/she doesn't feel like talking right now."

[whatsnextmom]

I'm glad you've made a decision you are comfortable with based on what you know of your own child.

I will say that only "some" kids are easily influenced by others. Personally, my kids are not. They were never in preschools where kids wore diapers (because that is typically daycare, not preschool. The preschool I worked in that took diapers was an rarity and acception and seperated those kids from the regular preschool program.) Still, they were around all sorts of different beliefs and behaviors they were either past or that that we didn't approve of and never picked them up themselves. They are 10 and 14 and still, really stand on their own. You know your child best. They may be the sort that follow their peers and if that is the case, certainly be careful where you put them. However, kids can be strong individuals too who think for themselves. I tend to believe that the more faith you put in them to really make their own decisions, the more apt they are to doing so.
 

Originally Posted by Positana 

OP here.

Just want to thank everyone for taking the time to share your experiences and opinions.  I really appreciate the thoughtfulness of many of the replies and the excellent points you make.

To answer some of the questions asked of me...

- This preschool is completely inflexible about even considering him for a 3s program, as are several others I know in our area.  We live in a city where preschool spaces are extremely scarce, so schools in general do not care for catering to children and families with special needs or demands.  For even asking questions like that, I probably risked being perceived as a potential problem parent and getting him rejected in any event.

- What I hope to get out of a preschool program:  #1 would be socialization.  My son is great one-on-one with other kids, usually older kids.  He also already has a "best friend" whom he adores and plays with a lot.  He is really, really well-behaved -- already says Thank You and Please and apologizes on his own when he has accidentally hurt someone.  His calm and happy demeanor makes him quite popular with other parents, so he's often invited to play dates and birthday parties.  But he is extremely shy in groups.  I am hoping that by being more accustomed to being in a group over time, he will learn to ask for things, stick up for himself more, and feel free to participate.  #2 would be to expose him to new games and ideas and ways of doing things that he would not be getting at home.

We live in a city where parents are almost manic about sending their very small children to lots of classes at once.  Music, yoga, and swimming are par for the course for kids not even yet 1 yo here.  Cooking, ballet, soccer, art classes... by the time they're 2.  I thought it all a bunch of expensive silliness for such young kids and so only recently, since shortly before he turned 2, started taking him to one class here, one class there.  To my dismay, I saw that while children in  his classes seem to participate freely and happily in, say, singing and clapping and dancing and cutting loose in music class, my son usually will just sits there as if mute or totally uninterested.  But I know he's highly interested, because at home he sings entire songs, dances up a storm when quick-tempo'd tunes come on, and is *very* assertive about asking for things, such as his favorite songs from the music class that he wouldn't participate in!  He chats up a storm at home in full sentences and is even starting to chit-chat with his little friends. 

He tells me he likes these classes.  At one in particular that we go to now, he breaks into a happy applause or shouts "Yayyy!" as I stroll him through the front door.  But in class, he's nonresponsive almost to the point of being mute.  He won't stand up to dance, very reluctant or won't participate in activities.  When an instructor asks him a simple question, he remains blank.  He doesn't even respond to being called by his own name during a song or a game, though he is totally fine at home and around people he knows well. 

So given all that, I guess I am hoping that a 2-3 mornings a week class in a school-like setting will slowly desensitize him, to help him overcome his shyness and just feel free to enjoy himself more in group settings, which is part of life.  I fear that if I don't expose him more of these group experiences (other than ones where I'm essentially hand-picking his friends through playdates), he may be in for a rough ride come kindergarten.  Thus preschool.

But you-all have made such compelling points.   If he can't socialize with all these younger 2s because, well, they're just so young and only do parallel play, then what's the point?  (His current music class, by the way, is mixed age but mostly younger kids, whom he has no interest in).  If the toys will be too babyish for him, then it probably will  not be a very fun environment for playing or learning.

After sleeping (or not sleeping, rather) on this for several days, I think I've decided not to pursue the preschool program that would lump him in with much younger kids, and offer only too-young toys.  I am going to continue letting him play and learn at home, and step up a few notches in enrolling him in more enrichment classes around our neighborhood to get him more accustomed to being in bigger groups and dealing with -- or at least acknowledging the presence of -- authority figures outside our home.

Today at the playground, he struck up a beautiful new friendship with a 3.2 yo... they helped each other fill a container with sand, they pointed out things to each other while jabbering away, which makes me feel better about my decision to not send him to preschool just yet.  The boy's mother was really surprised that my little guy, who was about the same height/size as her son, was only 2.5 because they played together so well.

By the way... for all those debating potty training... my son went diaper-free at 20 months, but I think it was only because we started EC early on, not because of his intelligence.  Most of the developing world start their babies early... and thus they generally get much earlier results, usually well before 18 months.  It's like any muscle.  It develops with use.

At the same time, I do also think there is a strong psychological component and that small children can be really susceptible, even subconsciously, to peer influence and messages that they pick up from adults.  A good friend's son -- who totally resisted potty training because she waited until after the terrible twos set in -- suddenly got interested when he happened to see my son use a portable potty seat (because we were at a public bathroom where the door wouldn't close), and when he got home asked my friend to buy him one in the same color and then started using it.  I think DS's own potty training was super successful because his best friend -- who is exactly the same age -- was also being EC'd at the same time, he often saw the other mother applauding his friend's successes.... and they both were able to go diaper-free within just a week or two of each other.

The first time DS went standing up... was after seeing an older boy do the same. 

Conversely, being around diaper-wearers, I believe, can have a similar effect.  Recently DS and I were out all day with a different boy, older and bigger than him, who was still in diapers.  DS really liked the boy and they got along great... and DS witnessed several diaper changes and heard comments that the other mom made about how her son's bladder is just too small to hold much in, explaining why he just is not able to do it (as if to justify his diaper-wearing, even though I said and did nothing to make her feel bad and I personally feel her son's diaper-wearing is perfectly normal for American culture and thus doesn't require justification).  Well... maybe it was a coincidence, but after we got home, over the last few days DS wet his pants *during the day* on two separate occasions and wet the bed three nights in a row... it's something that had not happened for.... so long I've forgotten how long.  Six months?  More?  I know it's not my own preschool stress, because I've had that for months now.  So there is nothing else happening in DS's life, nothing else new or different, to warrant that kind of potty regression.  I now cannot wait for our next play date with his best friend to see if that steers him back into his prior potty confidence.

So knowing what I know now, I would not want my potty-trained child in a class with only or mostly diaper-wearers because I do believe even tiny children absorb habits from the environment that they're in, and live up (or down) to adult expectations, even if it's not overtly expressed.

[serenbat]

"My Baby Can Talk"? Is this a real thing?

I was told this in a restaurant by the same person that said we did "My Baby Can Read"- the woman went on to tell us what bad parents we were because our child was reading the placemat and the menu. I was told point blank that my child would be a "problem" for his kindergarden teacher. We don't do TV and I had only heard of the program and had to explain it to my stunned DH.

I will say that only "some" kids are easily influenced by others.

I strongly disagree, parallel play is viewed as very real, influences by parents, family, society/culture are very real----"peer pressure" 

Usually when you child is not parallel playing there may be a milestone being missed/delayed. 

[sapphire_chan]

First, Serenbat, you have some strange and pushy people where you live. Seriously, they're accusing you of using special programs just because your kid is better at talking than their favorite nephew or whatever? How utterly aggravating for you.

Second, parallel play doesn't mean they're doing exactly the same thing. Maybe both are caring for dolls, but one could be feeding and the other rocking to sleep. One doll might get a bottle, the other nursed--without any regard for how the children themselves were fed as babies.

My dd hasn't worn diapers for about 6 months now, and stopped wearing the sort that fasten at the sides much longer ago. Some times she wants to play "baby" and have me put a "diaper" on her. Which I do by putting on her undies while talking in a play-voice "here's a clean diaper for the baby!" and pretending to fasten the sides and blowing bubbles on her tummy "all done, baby DD!" She hasn't had any accidents since starting to play that game. Her closest friend her age is just now getting out of diapers, and she saw him changed regularly, she calls him a kid not a baby. (The diaper game, incidentally, comes from a doll she has, not from seeing other kids get changed.)

[Gemini529]

Serenbat:

Somehow I have managed to get wrapped up in this thread so I wanted to add in my personal experience and two cents.

I was one of those very shy little kids.  My sister was my best friend and we would talk to each other for hours on end every night, but I probably would have hidden under a desk if someone I didn't know approached me loudly at age 3.  My sister is a year older than me.  We are still best friends to this day and as an older child, I actually ended up befriending mostly kids in her grade.  

I'd also like to add that my parents love to talk about how my sister was potty trained in a day before age two and how I was the most stubborn potty trainer on the planet and would cry when they tried to drag me to the toilet!  I also sucked my thumb (mostly at night and at home) until I was like 7 years old.  It didn't make my sister or friends regress into diapers, nor did they all start sucking their thumbs.  But I guess your kid wouldn't have liked me or given me a chance.  That's too bad because I always got really good grades and once I opened up and became good friends with someone, they had a friend for life. 

Also, don't assume that just because a kid is quiet that they won't get along with talkative kids.  Most of my best friends in school were really loud, talkative and extroverted.  Something about that personality type was always attracted to me. They talked a lot, I listened a lot.  

One more thing.  Your grammar and spelling are so bad that it's hard for me to get through your posts.  I'm not trying to be mean but I've had a really hard time following what you have been trying to say because of it and that might be where some of these extreme reactions are coming from.  Hopefully your child won't judge you too harshly later in life for never learning proper grammar! 

[moominmamma]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

I strongly disagree, parallel play is viewed as very real, influences by parents, family, society/culture are very real----"peer pressure" 

Usually when you child is not parallel playing there may be a milestone being missed/delayed. 

Parallel play: Typical of young children. Groups of children playing in a common space, but play is not influenced by or shared with others. As distinct from interactive play.

I think you're using the term differently from how it is commonly understood. 

In groups some children enthusiastically copy the play and behaviour of others. Some do not. It does not mean a milestone is missed/delayed. It's often just an issue of temperament and learning style: introverts and analytical learners tend to learn through observation and by the silent internal activity of mirror neurons rather than through active play. 

miranda

[moominmamma]

... double post