Someone please help me...

[xzaviers_mama]

I have 3 little boys (7, 3 and 20 months), and I'm just at a loss for what to do with my youngest.  My oldest was a really laid back toddler, and was generally just a happy, mellow guy.  My second son was a little more "wild", and went through a definite fit throwing/hitting type phase, but he was also generally a happy kid.  However, I feel like my youngest is just miserable 90% of the time.  I feel like this started about 3 months ago now... He hits CONSTANTLY, and it's to the point where everyone flinches when he raises a hand.  We always do the thing where we hold his hand and help him to "pet" us, while saying "nice touches", or "gentle".  If he's already in mega-tantrum mode, that just further pisses him off, and he will arch his back, throw himself backward, or try even harder to land a palm across your face.  

So many times throughout the day, he goes into these fits where nothing consoles him.  He will follow us around, trying to hit us, but if we try to pick him up, he arches his back, and pushes away from us.  We have no clue how to help him when he's like this, because it seems like everything just upsets him more.  We just moved into a home with all hardwood floors, and I'm constantly trying to grab him, before he throws himself on the floor and smacks his head.  I can't figure out what the big triggers are for these meltdowns, because it varies so much.  A lot of times, it seems to start when he can't have something that he wants, such as more vitamins/teething tablets.  Also, when he decides that he wants something that one of his brothers has, and they're not giving it up... but it's also just random, and we can't figure out what the problem is.  

He's not verbal at all, and I brought this up with his pedi about 2 months ago.  She said that she wasn't too concerned yet, since he seemed 'on target' with everything else... and he has good eye contact, can follow a direction I give him, etc.  I didn't talk to her much about these meltdowns, because it hadn't been going on long at that point, and he was cutting 4 teeth, so I brushed it off as that.  

Since then, he has picked up a couple of words (cookie, shoe, cracker...), but his frustration level seems off the charts.

Does this sound like typical toddler behavior?  Or maybe he's just frustrated that he can't communicate with us the way he wants to just yet?  Or does it sound like something I need to discuss with his pedi before his next "checkup"?

Any ideas on how to help him relax when he's in meltdown mode?  Or to stop the hitting?

Thanks ladies!

Jaime

[kanga2roo]

  Yikes   :(  

No, I would not call this typical if it happening several times a day and he's inconsolable. What was he like before- you said this began a few months ago....? Does he have food allergies- do your other kids? Maybe he's not feeling well, ear infection? How is his tummy, as far as you can tell? He seems to be telling you loud and clear, well not so clearly actually, because you don't yet know what- that something is wrong.

  Is he ever playful? Does he respond to sounds in a typical way?

When he's upset could you sing a favorite song, very quietly, or show him some pictures if he is more visual- to help him calm down? Sometimes kids can calm by flipping through some index card size pics on a notebook ring.

   Might it help if you narrate for him ie. "Oh you are so MAD! You REALLY want that truck! Its so hard to wait"...Then predict "Pretty soon you'll feel better. You'll use this one for awhile until its your turn. Soon you can have it but right now you can push this blue one. I think you're starting to feel better. In a minute we'll get some water and rock on the chair together".....

I would definitely bring him in to your pedi to check his ears, throat, etc. and start from there. Try to notice what precipitates the tantrums- hunger, sensory, anger, frustration, confusion. Hang in there!

[APToddlerMama]

That sounds a LOT like my DS around that same age.  I know I posted threads about him hitting nonstop and never being happy.  He had never been an easy kid, but it really peaked around this time which is also right around when he self weaned (yes, seriously self weaned) and went to eating all table foods.  After several miserable months, we pulled dairy out of his diet and he was a totally different kid.  Hitting basically stopped within a few days.  I would look at pulling some of the more problematic foods and see what happens.  good luck. 

[xzaviers_mama]

Originally Posted by kanga2roo 

  Yikes   :(  

No, I would not call this typical if it happening several times a day and he's inconsolable. What was he like before- you said this began a few months ago....? Does he have food allergies- do your other kids? Maybe he's not feeling well, ear infection? How is his tummy, as far as you can tell? He seems to be telling you loud and clear, well not so clearly actually, because you don't yet know what- that something is wrong.

  Is he ever playful? Does he respond to sounds in a typical way?

When he's upset could you sing a favorite song, very quietly, or show him some pictures if he is more visual- to help him calm down? Sometimes kids can calm by flipping through some index card size pics on a notebook ring.

   Might it help if you narrate for him ie. "Oh you are so MAD! You REALLY want that truck! Its so hard to wait"...Then predict "Pretty soon you'll feel better. You'll use this one for awhile until its your turn. Soon you can have it but right now you can push this blue one. I think you're starting to feel better. In a minute we'll get some water and rock on the chair together".....

I would definitely bring him in to your pedi to check his ears, throat, etc. and start from there. Try to notice what precipitates the tantrums- hunger, sensory, anger, frustration, confusion. Hang in there!

I think I might try making some little index cards with pictures on them for him... talking to him (in any fashion) doesn't seem to work well when he's like this.  He screams over me, and swats at me.  It's hard to even get close to him, because if you act like you might try and hold him, he'll throw himself backwards.  

No one in our home has any food allergies, that I'm aware of anyway.  Our diet is about 99% vegan (the kids will have cheese on occasion), and it's been that way his whole life, so I'm not sure if something could have changed in his system or not.  I can't think of anything that changed, dietary or otherwise, when this all seemed to go downhill... which was about 3 months ago.  

I don't *think* that anything is wrong as far as ears, throat, etc. go, but I will definitely have his pedi check it all out.  He was cutting all 4 canine teeth at the same time, but I've even resorted to giving him a dose of Tylenol to see if that would ease his mood... with no luck, obviously.  

I definitely don't think that he's getting enough sleep, but I'm not sure how to fix that either.  DH and I cannot seem to get him down until close to midnight.  I will nurse him, with all the lights off, and as soon as his eyes start to close, he realizes what's happening,  sits up, and pushes me away.  Eventually, he either falls asleep nursing, or DH paces the house with him, and he falls asleep that way.  He only sleeps for a couple of hours, then he wakes up and needs to be nursed back to sleep.  I have to get up around 7:30 because I babysit a little girl (and my other boys are usually up around 8am), and as soon as I try to sneak out of bed, he usually pops right up and cries.  I know he's tired, and still needs sleep, but it's impossible to get him back down after that.  Once he sees the other kids are up and running, getting him back to sleep is out of the question.  He will usually fall asleep nursing some time during the day, and I can lay him in his/my bed for about an hour... but he always wakes up crying.  I'm sure the sleep issues is the main culprit to the daily misery... but he's even unhappy when he has to sleep... and I can't figure out how to fix it.  

*sigh*

I feel horrible, because I'm just so worn out from his behavior, ya know?  I love him to death, but I hardly get to enjoy my time with him.  I feel like I miss the little boy I had 3-4 months ago.  Not to mention, so much of my attention is focused on him during the day, it's a wonder my other 2 boys haven't reacted by lashing out at me...lol.  *knock on wood*  I also miss my time with DH.  I feel like I haven't even spoken to him in so long, because the time we used to spend together at night, is now consumed with passing a screaming toddler back and forth, until we're both so exhausted that we can't even see straight.

[xzaviers_mama]

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

That sounds a LOT like my DS around that same age.  I know I posted threads about him hitting nonstop and never being happy.  He had never been an easy kid, but it really peaked around this time which is also right around when he self weaned (yes, seriously self weaned) and went to eating all table foods.  After several miserable months, we pulled dairy out of his diet and he was a totally different kid.  Hitting basically stopped within a few days.  I would look at pulling some of the more problematic foods and see what happens.  good luck. 

So far, he's still nursing several times per day, but that may change due to my pregnancy.  

I wonder if the small amounts of cheese that he gets are affecting his tummy or something... I may pull that and see how he does.  What are some other problem foods that I could look into?

[LynnS6]

Food colorings should be eliminated if you haven't already. If you've done that, try gluten and dairy are common culprits, but it could also be other things.

I'd also read up on Sensory Processing Disorder -- he's got a couple of red flags for that -- the hitting, hitting his head on the floor (sensory seeking), arching his back when you try to comfort him (avoiding sensory input), not sleeping, jerking awake as he's falling asleep.

My favorite book about this is: Sensational Kids. The runner up is: The Out of Sync Child (more libraries have this than Sensational Kids).

Two decent websites:

http://www.spdfoundation.net/about-sensory-processing-disorder.

http://www.sensory-processing-disorder.com/

I'd try diet, and a check up with his pediatrician. If those don't help, I'd seek out an occupational therapist who can do a sensory evaluation. The 'good' news is that kids with sensory issues really like OT. The bad news is that it's sometimes hard to get insurance to pay for it.

[xzaviers_mama]

Originally Posted by LynnS6 

Food colorings should be eliminated if you haven't already. If you've done that, try gluten and dairy are common culprits, but it could also be other things.

I'd also read up on Sensory Processing Disorder -- he's got a couple of red flags for that -- the hitting, hitting his head on the floor (sensory seeking), arching his back when you try to comfort him (avoiding sensory input), not sleeping, jerking awake as he's falling asleep.

My favorite book about this is: Sensational Kids. The runner up is: The Out of Sync Child (more libraries have this than Sensational Kids).

Two decent websites:

http://www.spdfoundation.net/about-sensory-processing-disorder.

http://www.sensory-processing-disorder.com/

I'd try diet, and a check up with his pediatrician. If those don't help, I'd seek out an occupational therapist who can do a sensory evaluation. The 'good' news is that kids with sensory issues really like OT. The bad news is that it's sometimes hard to get insurance to pay for it.

You know, I've been wondering about SPD, but didn't really know anything about it.  Just the fact that he doesn't want to be cuddled when he's upset, and does everything to push away from us... made me curious.  Also, I don't know if this would have anything to do with it, but when I attempt to wash his hands with a wash cloth, he FREAKS out.  Throws himself to the floor, and screams bloody murder.  I've started only having him wash his hands in the sink under running water, because that he seems to like. If I touch his hands/face with a cloth/wipe, it sets him off.

Thanks for the link and book ideas.  I'll check out the links right now!

[APToddlerMama]

Originally Posted by xzaviers_mama 

So far, he's still nursing several times per day, but that may change due to my pregnancy.  

I wonder if the small amounts of cheese that he gets are affecting his tummy or something... I may pull that and see how he does.  What are some other problem foods that I could look into?

Dairy is a huge one.  Also gluten, food dyes, corn, soy...  I would start with dairy, and 80% of kids who have trouble with dairy also do with soy.  My son's dairy issues aren't food allergy related..just an intolerance and major effect on behavior.  My DS also has a sensory processing disorder that was 95% improved with pulling problem foods. 

[kanga2roo]

  Being unable to tolerate the washcloth is a big clue. Poor little guy- if he's overtired and overloaded further by sensory things that would certainly account for his misery. Before you go to your pedi, brainstorm and write down any and all concerns or things that just seem "off" , particularly those that he has always had. Sometimes putting things together will add up in a more clear direction.My son, who would also wake suddenly when he was dozing, or if I moved, eventually started sleeping better when we put him to bed much earlier than I ever would have thought he'd need. Once we passed that tiny window of opportunity, he would be more restless and up very late. He basically stopped napping around a year, and had to nurse and/or sleep on me for a long time. Another thing that helped was when I lay down beside him when he fell asleep. He hated it, and initially it took longer, but there wasn't any change in position or movement afterwards....

[xzaviers_mama]

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

Dairy is a huge one.  Also gluten, food dyes, corn, soy...  I would start with dairy, and 80% of kids who have trouble with dairy also do with soy.  My son's dairy issues aren't food allergy related..just an intolerance and major effect on behavior.  My DS also has a sensory processing disorder that was 95% improved with pulling problem foods. 

Maybe I'll try the 2 easiest first, which for us would be dairy and food dyes.  Actually, I bet I'll realize that there are dyes in things I never even thought of...lol
 

[xzaviers_mama]

Originally Posted by kanga2roo 

  Being unable to tolerate the washcloth is a big clue. Poor little guy- if he's overtired and overloaded further by sensory things that would certainly account for his misery. Before you go to your pedi, brainstorm and write down any and all concerns or things that just seem "off" , particularly those that he has always had. Sometimes putting things together will add up in a more clear direction.My son, who would also wake suddenly when he was dozing, or if I moved, eventually started sleeping better when we put him to bed much earlier than I ever would have thought he'd need. Once we passed that tiny window of opportunity, he would be more restless and up very late. He basically stopped napping around a year, and had to nurse and/or sleep on me for a long time. Another thing that helped was when I lay down beside him when he fell asleep. He hated it, and initially it took longer, but there wasn't any change in position or movement afterwards....

This is one of the only ways I can get him to sleep.  It's funny, because my alarm can go off 5 times in the morning, and he won't move... but when I try to ninja move my way out of the bed, he acts like you crashed cymbals next to  his head.  And it breaks my heart, because he will immediately go into meltdown mode in the morning, because he's not ready to get up, but I HAVE to.  (I babysit a little girl, and she gets here at 8am.)  When I reach my arms out to him, to pick him up off the bed, and take him to the living room with me, he just throws himself backwards on the bed, and starts with the hitting/screaming/thrashing/etc.  He's soooo tired, and wants nothing more than to have me lay back down with him.  Breaks my heart.  The kid needs more sleep... and I just can't figure out how to help him get it.

I've started writing down every little thing that I notice that seems "off" with him, so I will hopefully feel like I can be thorough when I talk to his pedi.

[earth-mama]

I have a couple of thoughts that may or may not help.  My DD (28 months), who is normally pretty mellow, will have some rough patches.  Recently, I think they can be attributed to her not getting enough protein or having recently eaten something with food dyes in it (which we avoid almost all the time). So, I try to make sure she eats some sort of protein regularly through out the day (she gets busy playing and doesn't want to eat, then gets over tired/hungry and melts down) as a preventative measure.  As I was thinking about this I also realized that you stated that you and your family are vegans, so I assume you eat soy based products.  I mention this only because I have a pretty severe intolerance for soy products and can't eat things like tofu at all (my body just can't process it).  I wanted to bring it up because maybe your little one has a similar problem.  I also had one other thought and that is that you mentioned that you are pregnant.  Do you think that your pregnancy is contributing or a possible cause of the issues.  My DD did not seem to mind nursing after I got pregnant, but she definitely noticed that my milk tasted different--maybe the hormones are affecting him or also simply that he senses that things are changing and doesn't know how to handle it.  

I hope those ideas help.  Good luck!

[Logan's Mom]

You keep coming back to sleep which can explain alot in my opinion.  As PP mentioned, sometimes you miss that window of opportunity to put them down to sleep and then they get their second wind, which isn't helpful at that age.  My son is 5 and sleeps around 10 hours.  He slept around 11 at that age plus napped.  Though, all kids are different.

In general if he doesn't have a lot of words, aka ways to express himself, you might want to teach him a few signs, that tends to help with frustration levels.

Good luck and I hope he gets more sleep soon!

[xzaviers_mama]

Originally Posted by earth-mama 

I have a couple of thoughts that may or may not help.  My DD (28 months), who is normally pretty mellow, will have some rough patches.  Recently, I think they can be attributed to her not getting enough protein or having recently eaten something with food dyes in it (which we avoid almost all the time). So, I try to make sure she eats some sort of protein regularly through out the day (she gets busy playing and doesn't want to eat, then gets over tired/hungry and melts down) as a preventative measure.  As I was thinking about this I also realized that you stated that you and your family are vegans, so I assume you eat soy based products.  I mention this only because I have a pretty severe intolerance for soy products and can't eat things like tofu at all (my body just can't process it).  I wanted to bring it up because maybe your little one has a similar problem.  I also had one other thought and that is that you mentioned that you are pregnant.  Do you think that your pregnancy is contributing or a possible cause of the issues.  My DD did not seem to mind nursing after I got pregnant, but she definitely noticed that my milk tasted different--maybe the hormones are affecting him or also simply that he senses that things are changing and doesn't know how to handle it.  

I hope those ideas help.  Good luck!

Do you think that if it is an issue with something he's eating, it would have bothered him from the start?  I'm trying to think of things that might be newer to his diet....

I've considered the fact that I'm pregnant being an issue too...

I really keep going back to the sleep issue, which sucks, because I don't know how to fix it.  He's such a sensitive sleeper, and I just have too many kids to dedicate a solid hour to getting him down in the afternoon...lol.  

[xzaviers_mama]

Originally Posted by Logan's Mom 

You keep coming back to sleep which can explain alot in my opinion.  As PP mentioned, sometimes you miss that window of opportunity to put them down to sleep and then they get their second wind, which isn't helpful at that age.  My son is 5 and sleeps around 10 hours.  He slept around 11 at that age plus napped.  Though, all kids are different.

In general if he doesn't have a lot of words, aka ways to express himself, you might want to teach him a few signs, that tends to help with frustration levels.

Good luck and I hope he gets more sleep soon!

We use sign a lot in my house (I used to be an interpreter), so he does use several signs.  He seems to pick those up much quicker, so maybe I just really need to step that up quite a bit.  He definitely signs more than he verbalizes.  

As far as the sleep thing goes... should I just change things up all at once?  For example... we normally get my other 2 boys down first (7yr old goes to bed just fine, 3yo still gets nursed to sleep on the couch, then I lay him in his bed... he's fairly easy as well), then it takes us a loooong time to get Jayce down.  We always turn off all the lights, then I try nursing him.  As soon as he starts to doze off, he climbs off my lap and gets wild.  Then DH will try and settle him down, and he'll throw a fit because he wants down.  This goes back and forth... sometimes for 2 hours.

Should I just suddenly start trying to get him down around 7pm?  Or should I just start a little earlier than usual... and slowly make it earlier and earlier?

*sigh*

It's so hard!  I just want that simple group of kids, where we do bath time, story time, teeth brushing... then I tuck them all in bed, kiss their foreheads, turn out the light, and everyone dozes off.  

(Sounds awesome, huh?)  

[Logan's Mom]

Well, if it was me...I'd probably try to put him down at 7 or so...because if it is that he is overtired, that might work after maybe a week?  If that doesn't work, I'd move to trying to do it gradually.  I feel your pain....althought I don't have 3 kids I don't have an easy one and sleep has been an issue...MAJORLY until he was about 3...I am actually not a zombie anymore.

I'd try sleep, then maybe elimination diet.  If its because your pregnant, well there isn't anything you can do about that.  Maybe take some herbs to increase your milk production if you think that is an issue.  My son wouldn't nurse so I pumped for 1.5 years...can give you pumping tips...but not nursing tips. :D

[journeymom]

Originally Posted by xzaviers_mama 

Do you think that if it is an issue with something he's eating, it would have bothered him from the start?

Not if it's protein related.  And that's just my uneducated impression.  Not enough protein makes people cranky, and giving him a little more than you have been is a very easy thing to do.  However I don't think this will cure his melt-downs in the least. It's just one small thing that might help him feel a little better. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by xzaviers_mama 

We use sign a lot in my house (I used to be an interpreter), so he does use several signs.  He seems to pick those up much quicker, so maybe I just really need to step that up quite a bit.  He definitely signs more than he verbalizes.  

As far as the sleep thing goes... should I just change things up all at once?  For example... we normally get my other 2 boys down first (7yr old goes to bed just fine, 3yo still gets nursed to sleep on the couch, then I lay him in his bed... he's fairly easy as well), then it takes us a loooong time to get Jayce down.  We always turn off all the lights, then I try nursing him.  As soon as he starts to doze off, he climbs off my lap and gets wild.  Then DH will try and settle him down, and he'll throw a fit because he wants down.  This goes back and forth... sometimes for 2 hours.

Should I just suddenly start trying to get him down around 7pm?  Or should I just start a little earlier than usual... and slowly make it earlier and earlier?

*sigh*

It's so hard!  I just want that simple group of kids, where we do bath time, story time, teeth brushing... then I tuck them all in bed, kiss their foreheads, turn out the light, and everyone dozes off.  

(Sounds awesome, huh?)  

Try turning the whole night-time routine over to your dh.  Take yourself out of it.  Don't nurse him to sleep.  I know, it seems like that's the one tool you've got left, why in the world would you drop it??  It seems very apparent that he's got sensory issues and it may simply be that he needs a minimal amount of stimulation from other people, especially Mama who is very stimulating.

Give it several days. If it doesn't work you can go back to your established routine. 

Look into weighted blankets, he might appreciate that.  Seems counter intuitive, because he doesn't seem to appreciate being held down.  But a blanket is a neutral object, it's not mom or dad holding him down. 

If you haven't already made an appointment to see his ped again, do so.  Advocate for your son and focus on how this is going on all day. 

Hugs, mama.

[journeymom]

One more thing -and I'm sorry, I don't want to seem like I'm stalking you-   when you talk to your ds's ped you should mention the diagnosis your doctor gave you.  The ped will simply say that at your ds's age it's much too early to make a diagnosis.  That's OK, it's still important for the doc to know and may add some weight to your concern. 

These things are most definitely genetically related. 

[xzaviers_mama]

Originally Posted by journeymom 

One more thing -and I'm sorry, I don't want to seem like I'm stalking you-   when you talk to your ds's ped you should mention the diagnosis your doctor gave you.  The ped will simply say that at your ds's age it's much too early to make a diagnosis.  That's OK, it's still important for the doc to know and may add some weight to your concern. 

These things are most definitely genetically related. 

Wait... I just got lost.  lol... 

What diagnosis that my doctor gave?  

[journeymom]

I sent you a private mail.