So what does CPS look for? Can they inestigate over any concerned call from someone? I'm in Canada. - Page 5

[CrazyCatLady]

My mother in law called CPS on me numerous times because I was going to move away with my daughter and she didn't like it.  I refused to let the social worker in and they came back within an hour with police and a warrant.  My daughter was removed that same day because I was "uncooperative" and therefore "they couldn't ensure my dd's safety".  So they threw her in a van and drove off with her.  I've never seen such a look of terror on a child's face before. 

I was a good crunchy mom.  We lived in a huge, clean house.  My daughter was well fed, home schooled and involved in lots of activities, had friends, etc.  There was no abuse of any kind (I have never once hit her or anything like it).  Certainly no neglect.  No drugs or alcohol.  But they took her anyways.

At first they said they took her because I was uncooperative.  Then it was because I have bi-polar and that means that there is potential for abuse or neglect.  Then by the time trial happened there was so much made up stuff (with no proof) that it is still unbelievable to me.  Supposedly I cut myself in front of my daughter, was on the internet threatening to kill her, etc.  All completely made up things!  They never did accuse me of any physical abuse though, which I guess was "kind" of them.

The kicker was that CPS gave my daughter to the same MIL who lied and started all this to begin with.  My daughter HATES my MIL and was miserable living with her for months.  There were plenty of other people jumping at the chance to take my dd in.  But my MIL had CPS wrapped around her finger for some reason (I never have figured it out).

I played the game.  Drove the 50 miles each way for my one hour visit a week.  Attended every hearing.  Took pointless parenting classes that taught me nothing after years of being on MDC.  Continued to see my doctors and psychiatrists (like I always had been anyways).

It's been a year and a half now and my daughter lives with me full time again.  However, CPS is still in control of our lives.  I am not allowed to home school.  I'm not allowed to move.  I can't go anywhere or do anything with out the social worker calling and talking to someone (you know how embarrassing that can get after a while? this includes my jobs, etc).  And we live in constant fear of doing (or not doing) something wrong and them removing her yet again.  Everything is supposed to be dismissed in Oct...but I won't believe it until it happens.

So I don't really care one bit what the social workers here on MDC have to say about CPS.  Corruption sure as hell does happen.  It happened to me and because of that I believe it is happening to a lot of people.  There is no way that my case is just a very random, unlucky situation.  No abuse, no neglect, no drugs, living conditions were perfect...and they still took her.  It sickens me really.

[CrazyCatLady]

Oh and they did use all of my MDC posts from years past against me during the trial.  So I always warn people here to be careful what they say online.  Because I have seen it come back to bite you when it comes to CPS.

[Cynthia Mosher]

Viki Bowser, I see you are a new member. Please appreciate that we do not allow personal attacks of member. If you cannot discuss something politely and with respect for others please refrain from posting. 

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by queenjane 

 But that doesnt mean that CPS wants to steal your children *so that they can adopt them out for supposed big bucks from the govt*...i have my experience, you have your experience and that may color how we view CPS (my adopted children's lives were probably saved by CPS intervention) but can't we keep the discussion respectful?

Warning: Possible Triggers

Here is a recent news story about a baby that CPS failed to save. CPS made the call to return a child to its birth parents, and 2 weeks later, the child was dead. http://www.kvoa.com/news/foster-parents-of-dead-baby-speak-out/

Part of the problem with CPS is that their mandate is to predict human behavior, which is impossible. They try to sort out which reports are made by people simply to mess with the parent, and which calls are made in an attempt to protect children. They try to guess which parents can care for their children, even imperfectly, and which parents are a danger to their children.

But CPS employees are just human beings, without any special powers. They cannot predict the future.

[Single mom 35]

I would have to disagree there's a reason why the Bill of rights is law we are by law in all states allowed to refuse cps entry even law enforcement if there is no warrant or court order then they have no right to threaten,coerce,intimidate or force there way in people's home can be a mess at time's when you have kids an can be a mess when your doing a deep cleaning an a cps worker could careless if you've been cleaning or not thet'll use it as a reason to remove your kids i know cause its been done to me.

[SquidMommy]

@Single mom 35: You sure you're not Viki Bowser in disguise? This thread is doing a great job at dragging out the people with an axe to grind. CPS is fallible. They make the wrong calls in returning kids. They make the wrong calls in removing kids. At the end of they day, that CPS worker is a fallible human being. Who has personal family concerns, bills to pay, dinners to make, headaches, colds, take-out pizza. They are Just People. They can't look into a crystal ball, there's no computer that generates odds and likely outcomes. Thus, there's going to be times that the wrong decision is made. Should it EVER happen? No. It can ruin lives, often it does. But it does, because it's a system run by people, trying to anticipate the behavior of other people. Sorry. No good answer.
 

[MichelleW1970]

This is not necessairly the case. Im actually dealing with them here in Utah over a situation and yes, they can enter your house take pictures and look around.  Inspect everything...how much food, how clean, is there bad food around? re the kids rooms clean? Do they have clean beds? Do they even have beds? Are the kids clean and well taken care of? Is the house clean? Are there are any drugs or dangerous things around? Do the parents have previous cases with the CPS? These are just some of the things that come to issue with them...Down here, they are especially critical of cleanliness. My house is somewhat cluttered and a little messy...but not at all bad.  People have called CPS (Child Protective Service) for false allegations. I do not abuse or neglect or hurt my kids even though someone said my son was neglected. For some reason, Utah CPS is totally hung up on cleanliness rather than the real issues of what is and does go on. There are people out there who deal and use drugs (not me) and are highly abusive and horrible to kids...and people who have just horrible places to live in with their kids...I have seen houses broken to pieces and beyond trashed and bad in  almost all kind of ways. These are the people who CPS needs to deal with.  Leave others including me alone...There is a boy down the street from us..he and his brother are being raised by his grand parents and they would come and walk to school with my daughter...my daughter is 7 and he is 10. Anyway this kid and his younger brother constantly smelled like strong cigerrete smoke...all on their clothes  and their hair. Nasty. Just smelling that made me not only feel sick but was quite offending...and while i dont know the exact situation of these kids, I believe it to be dysfunctional. However, for parents or grandparents to smoke heavily around young kids in my mind is abuse and they should be talked to.  In fact, i can agree that kids should not at all be living in a smoke filled enviornment...its a health concern..why dont cps step in on that? The fact that i am dealing with the CPS on my own situations which i think their actions is not warranted there are people who do so much worse and get away with it.at any rate, yes they can come into your home. And no you dont  have to let them in, however, they can then go and get a court order demanding to see your house. If you dont comply then you get into further problems which could unfortunately  result in a temporary removal which is what i am facing...you can certainly fight them but the judges here in this pathetic state will always from what i have heard side with the cps.  Social workers can and often do show up unannounced. They do this deliberately and they can go to the childs school without you as a parent even knowing they did and talk to your child and get them to tell them things that they never told you. And worse, use it against you. When they come to your home they can talk to your kids in like manner in private asking about abuse and how well mom and dad treats them and use that too against you...they look for anything and everything. Like a debt collector..anything the kids say or you tell them can and could be used against you. They love people who are informers because then they have that as a weapon.. The CPS are vultures. If you have been calling them, then please stop at once! They are the government and the governmet can be a dangerous entity to deal with on this...In fact, many people are really ignorant of the fact that when they call the cps of something they feel is wrong with a kid, they have NO clue of just how much damage they can really cause someone even of they are calling innocently. i have seen several otherwise good descent hard working families be literally ruined by the so called CPS for things didnt warrant it...they pray on people..they never seem to go away once they have a victim in their clutches. its like a cancer..it just keeps growing and getting worse the more they come around. If more and more Americans and others knew this, the less power the CPS and Social Services would have over the general public...They have NO clue how much damage they cause to the lives of not just the kids but parents and families etc. These people who call feel they are justified  and somehow have a high sense of entitlement just because they either dont like something or have some kind of revenge against a person..to  essentially but into other peoples affairs and business and have no idea of the real problem, situation or just what is happening in the shoes of the kids or others..they should learn to mind their own business...and if more people just looked the other way and never deal with the CPS (people learn as a family unit and society to handle their own problems like in other nations) society would be better and happier..these people who make calls to them are NOT helping problems they are more often than not creating them. I think laws should be made on what truly constitutes a call to them and people who call should be made to think twice before doing so...there should be proof of abuse or neglect before someone calls. If it is a false allegation, the caller should be heavily fined of not charged..like 911 does for wasting their time or placing a false call..  Im for sure not at all the only person who feels this way and agrees to it...I refuse to deal with the cps after i am cleared of all this mess ever....even if  i see a parent is being abusive to a kid...because i have no right ruin someones life like they have mine.  I just will not ever...i dont want anything like this to happen to someone else..thats how much i care. I mind my business. Sad others dont. I would not call them or deal with them if i  were you in the future. Look the other way please.  America has the social service programs and CPS because American society is made up of a large amount of babies and immature people who cannot resolve their own problems amongst themselves and once again, as in other culturally close family knit nations...thats a shame. The CPS should be completely abolished and if i were in power or president that and  the social services would be the very first thing to abolish and get rid of. And maybe the people who work for them imprisoned and criminally charged as much of what they do is in a sense..boarder line criminal as rights violations. They use the law to hide behind to just if their actions and get away with it.. Many other countries dont have this nor do they need it...thats what culture lifestyle and families with close knit cultural ties are for. The government is simply too big, getting bigger and has too much power and they think they can just walk into your home and tell you how to live and raise and parent your kids...etc. Well, ill be honest: that is wrong. Sadly, if you are in America, you will see much more of it because America is losing freedoms and becoming socialist and by socialism the government can do a lot of things that before it couldnt including violation of rights you once had....Im not on a rant here, Im providing education to  people on this site, yourself included about what you and many others might not have ever known about the CPS. Stop dealing with them...dont give them any help..believe me they dont need any help from you or anyone else...they are vultures and will clamp down on someone and never let go...they dont need you to help in their evil to find their victims...

[chaimom]

I am absolutely baffled as to why this site has so many threads with posters afraid the authorities will take away their children.  I've never seen threads like this on other parenting boards.   Honestly, it makes me wonder.   

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by chaimom 

I am absolutely baffled as to why this site has so many threads with posters afraid the authorities will take away their children.  I've never seen threads like this on other parenting boards.   Honestly, it makes me wonder.   

FWIW, I'm not at all concerned that my kids will be taken away. Unless I get one of the scary, power-tripping social workers (and, yes - they are out there - I've met them - but I don't believe they're the majority, by any means), there's no reason for that to happen. But, they do have that power, and that's terrifying. I've already had some well-meaning (maybe - if it's who I think it was, it wasn't well intentioned at all) person sic them on me for an attempted homebirth...and having them show up while I was in labour caused my labour to stall. I ended up losing that baby, through a complicated chain of events. I take ultimate responsibility for that chain, but having a government agency show up at my door while i was naked in the birth pool was one of the links in the chain. I've seen probably well-meaning attempts to help end up making things worse for the kids in question too many times to be anything but nervous about CPS.

I also once had a former school friend, who was a social worker, mishear something I said while we were all out for a reunion party. I'd made a comment to one of our other old friends about the days when we used to smoke pot at lunch break, and my "friend" heard something about drugs, and thought I was currently smoking them, with a baby in the house.  (This was many years ago, as the "baby" is now 19.) She proceeded to say, "hey - watch that talking about drugs - I could take your baby away. I am a social worker, you know", followed by a cheerful laugh. I don't think people who think it's acceptable to "amusingly" threaten to take someone's child from them are appropriate people to have that power. But, she still had it. If she'd decided to pursue some old high school vendetta against someone, it would have been her word against theirs, and I could see her doing it.

The fact that people say "I'm here to help", "trust me" and "I can take your child away from you" doesn't mean I have to trust them. If they ever get involved with my life, I may have to accommodate their prejudices (eg. the hangup some of them seem to have about pristine homes), but I don't have to trust them.  Having any involvement with them would simply increase my stress levels, which would not be beneficial to me or my family.

OTOH, if my crazy neighbour did call them last summer, they seem to have laughed off the "OMG - her two year old wasn't wearing shoes!!" complaint, as least.

[QueenOfTheMeadow]

Petronella-

I've removed your post.  Please keep away from personal attacks. 

[LitMom]

Originally Posted by chaimom 

I am absolutely baffled as to why this site has so many threads with posters afraid the authorities will take away their children.  I've never seen threads like this on other parenting boards.   Honestly, it makes me wonder.   

Yeah, there are a lot aren't there? I have to say, the idea of CPS being called scares me when I'm reading this discussion and similar, but not in everyday life. I'm not divorced, have good relationships with the in-laws and my relatives as well. Those two facts seem to make an inordinate amount of difference in who gets reported to start with.

I worried more when the youngest was low on the growth curve and exclusively breastfeeding. That was a good impetus though, for me to switch pediatricians to find one who understood that DS was just following his father's growth curve as a baby (pretty much exactly the same weights at the same ages as DH). DS and DH are still beanpoles, tall and thin. 

They may dress funky, but they clearly have other options in their drawers, they just have a quirky sense of personal style, which I don't mind indulging. My kids get their fair share of bumps and bruises... well, the wild child gets more than his fair share, but I figure the pediatrician knows him well enough to know that he climbs, runs, and falls A LOT. The DOE receives all our homeschool paperwork and test scores and I keep copies, along with a portfolio of work. There are teachers of various classes and programs and church members to establish how we interact with one another. Generally, I figure, as I do with homeschooling, that city gov't/CPS is overwhelmed enough here that they won't mess with anyone just for fun. 

I can't imagine what anyone would report other than the annoying, snoopy neighbor; and what's she going to say? The kids are loud? They squabble? I yell at them to knock it off? "They don't go to school," she'd say, probably, I guess. I imagine in that case, they'd look 'em up and they're in the DOE system, where they're listed as longstanding homeschoolers with full paperwork and 99th percentile achievement scores. 

[Cyllya]

Originally Posted by chaimom 

I am absolutely baffled as to why this site has so many threads with posters afraid the authorities will take away their children.  I've never seen threads like this on other parenting boards.   Honestly, it makes me wonder.   

It's probably because this site is filled with parents who do things outside the norm and have thus had their neighbors and extended relatives flat out accuse them a treating their child cruelly or doing something illegal. 

As far as being concerned about having a clean house, I can only suppose people grew up with parents who called the house "filthy" if there was dog hair on the couch and toys on the bedroom floor, plus they only see pristine or as-pristine-as-possible houses on TV, in magazines, and when they're a guest at someone else's home (because that person frantically cleans before they come over), so they honestly think that's what a filthy home is.

[goldylochs73]

So I have noticed that many of the people leaving comments here don't really know what happens when CPS comes knocking. Recently we called CPS on my mother in law who has five children at home from ages 6-15. They met them at the door and my mother in law who has been through this several times before politely asked for them to come another time. They got out their schedules and made a date. The date came, the house was perfect and children well rehursed and the cased was closed quickly before even opened.
So you can in fact ask the CPS agent to come at a "better" time I have seen it happen now and it doesn't really matter how screwed up they are being treated emotionally, as long as they are fed and clothed and lied to and the house is clean then everything will be fine.
Also I think many of you would agree with me when I say that having a degree means virtually nothing when it comes to raising kids unless you have your own. There is nothing that can prepare you enough for being a parent but parenthood itself. People that believe that "educated" people are the answer to all our problems both abroad and domestic should take a look at the VERY educated people ruining everything from healthcare to government to education itself.

[beedum]

Hello all,

I can say that in the USA it is very different.  First of all, many caseworkers in the 80's, and 90's were documented to have been trained to question children in a way that would create "false memories", and confessions of things that were later proven not to have happened.  This is why interrogating young children is not legal in the USA unless a parent, or legal advisor/attorney is not present-parents here also have the right to have it recorded.  However, just because this is the law doesn't mean they will acknowledge it, or that you will be protected under it without a fight.  Public schools will often allow "personal" interviews with children even with express written letter from the parent forbidding it without a lawyer/tape recorder/parent present.

In the USA, you can refuse entry without a warrant.  The privacy of a home is protected, and due process rights are provided under the 14th amendment.  In the US if you allow entry you forfeit rights to deny entry at a later date.  (This happened to a very good friend of mine).  Even though you won't find out who reported you or see a copy of the report, you can find out what the allegations are, and provide doctors notes etc. from you own doctors/psychologist refuting any irresponsible parenting.  You have the right to have the caseworker return at a later date for an appointment. 

You are not obligated to offer information on yourself, or family affiliates (doctor, pastor etc.)  These people though likely to give you a good reference can be incorrectly and maliciously "quoted" without recourse either by you, or the person falsely quoted even with proof and witnesses, and pertinent information (information exonerating you) can be withheld solely at the caseworkers discretion. 

In the USA, for each child taken into custody, the agency gets a bonus.  For each child adopted out, and bonus goes to the caseworker.  There are plenty of honest caseworkers who mean well, but there are just as many who are in it for the bonus. 

Unfortunately, as always you do not have rights unless you know what they are. 

After reading some of the comments on here about Canadian law regarding child protective services, it is very apparent to me why the USA is still considered a country with some of the most liberal personal rights-I guess despite the embarrassing leadership we've had in the last 14 years (give or take, LOL), I still have a reason to remain a proud American.

[beedum]

I hate to break it to people on here, but Senator Nancy Shaefer (who is no longer with us) investigated not only the false removal of children in the US, but the profit made by these state agencies for their removals.  She even went a step further and documented her findings and concerns.  The following is copied directly from her report:  (There is much, much more listed, but I only pasted those points pertaining to funding in regards to CPS in the USA.)

The Adoption and the Safe Families Act, set in motion by President Bill Clinton,offered cash "bonuses" to the states for every child they adopted out of foster care. Inorder to receive the "adoption incentive bonuses" local child protective services need more children. They must have merchandise (children) that sell and you must haveplenty of them so the buyer can choose. Some counties are known to give a $4,000 bonus for each child adopted and an additional $2,000 for a "special needs" child.Employees work to keep the federal dollars flowing;

that there is double dipping. The funding continues as long as the child is out of the home. When a child in foster care is placed with a new family then "adoption bonus funds" are available. When a child is placed in a mental health facility and is on 16 drugs per day, like two children of a constituent of mine, more funds are involved;

that tax dollars are being used to keep this gigantic system afloat, yet the victims, parents, grandparents, guardians and especially the children, are charged for the system's services

[contactmaya]

What is the incentive for keeping a family intact?  Is the good intention of a case worker the only thing a parent can rely upon to keep their family intact?

'Mandated'  reporters can call the cps  for malicious reasons, or simply because they disagree with a parent on say, a vaccination schedule. There must be something in place to protect family rights. Are the above laws you cited, most of which parents would not know, and would not be upheld without professional assistance, the only thing to protect family rights?

Please help  me restore my faith in society. It cant be that easy to remove children from loving homes.

In the past, babies were automatically robbed from single mothers.  A whole generation of children (aborigines in Australia) were stolen from their families to be raised by white people. 

I am trying to figure out what prevents this from happening now, if all you need is a call to the cps and a worker after a cash bonus.

[queenjane]

Originally Posted by beedum 

I hate to break it to people on here, but Senator Nancy Shaefer (who is no longer with us) investigated not only the false removal of children in the US, but the profit made by these state agencies for their removals.  She even went a step further and documented her findings and concerns.  The following is copied directly from her report:  (There is much, much more listed, but I only pasted those points pertaining to funding in regards to CPS in the USA.)

The Adoption and the Safe Families Act, set in motion by President Bill Clinton,offered cash "bonuses" to the states for every child they adopted out of foster care. Inorder to receive the "adoption incentive bonuses" local child protective services need more children. They must have merchandise (children) that sell and you must haveplenty of them so the buyer can choose. Some counties are known to give a $4,000 bonus for each child adopted and an additional $2,000 for a "special needs" child.Employees work to keep the federal dollars flowing;

that there is double dipping. The funding continues as long as the child is out of the home. When a child in foster care is placed with a new family then "adoption bonus funds" are available. When a child is placed in a mental health facility and is on 16 drugs per day, like two children of a constituent of mine, more funds are involved;

that tax dollars are being used to keep this gigantic system afloat, yet the victims, parents, grandparents, guardians and especially the children, are charged for the system's services

This is a complete mischaracterization of the Safe Families Act.

[Smithie]

I agree, that is a mischaracterization of the Safe Families Act. 

I've also been involved in a case (Ike was placed with us almost one year ago today! How time flies!) where the home investigator (who I think is called the CPS worker elsewhere) really screwed up, the mom was unable to effectively advocate for her children due to a language barrier, and the children were removed without anything approaching sufficient cause. I got to see the whole case unfold from beginning to end (including meeting the mother by chance a few months after she'd regained custody). I was at the trial. I heard all the evidence. Based on how I saw the system work in that instance, I will not be letting a home investigator into my house if they knock on the door. They can scuttle away for the cops and a warrant, and meanwhile I will be calling my husband, my lawyer, and somebody with a video camera to bear witness to the entire interaction. Even if 99.999% of home investigators are entirely competent and would close the whole thing out in five minutes if I decide to let them in, what if the .001% is the one who caught my case? Interactions with home investigators need to be documented. If they are planning to conduct themselves according to their professional standards, they have no reason to object. 

[beedum]

Originally Posted by beedum

I hate to break it to people on here, but Senator Nancy Shaefer (who is no longer with us) investigated not only the false removal of children in the US, but the profit made by these state agencies for their removals. She even went a step further and documented her findings and concerns. The following is copied directly from her report: (There is much, much more listed, but I only pasted those points pertaining to funding in regards to CPS in the USA.)

The Adoption and the Safe Families Act, set in motion by President Bill Clinton,offered cash "bonuses" to the states for every child they adopted out of foster care. Inorder to receive the "adoption incentive bonuses" local child protective services need more children. They must have merchandise (children) that sell and you must haveplenty of them so the buyer can choose. Some counties are known to give a $4,000 bonus for each child adopted and an additional $2,000 for a "special needs" child.Employees work to keep the federal dollars flowing;

that there is double dipping. The funding continues as long as the child is out of the home. When a child in foster care is placed with a new family then "adoption bonus funds" are available. When a child is placed in a mental health facility and is on 16 drugs per day, like two children of a constituent of mine, more funds are involved;

that tax dollars are being used to keep this gigantic system afloat, yet the victims, parents, grandparents, guardians and especially the children, are charged for the system's services

This is a complete mischaracterization of the Safe Families Act.

Only the first paragraph above was written by me personally.  The rest was written by senator Schaefer after her investigation. 

Perhaps this is an accurate characterization of legislature that was put in place with the best of intentions, but exploited over time for profit.  Anywhere there is money incentive (unfortunately) there will be abuse and corruption.  There are great social workers out there, unfortunately there are some that are not so great as well.

My advise to anyone:  You have no rights if you don't know them.  They can and should investigate, but that is their job.  Your job is to protect yourself and your family from people who have the power to abuse.  Just as they don't know who you are and what you're capable of, you have just as little information as the person at the other end of the badge.  I have never had the pleasure of the company of "CPS" <sarcasm>, but I have done a lot of research due to a friends horrendous experience with them.  In the end she got her children back, but not after her entire family suffering a lot of grief.  She lost her house due to having to make the choice between paying the mortgage, and paying an attorney.  Obviously she made the right choice despite living now in an apartment, and having her credit etc. ruined on top of the anguish her children went through. 

[Smithie]

beedum, you are conflating two unconflatable things - the number of children taken into care, and the number of children adopted out of foster care. The vast majority of children who come into care are either reunified, placed with kin, or age out of the system. Foster care is not a money-making system. And OMG, if I were in the market to "buy" a child, foster-adoption is the LAST route I would take to reach that goal. I have never had worse customer service in my life - except, of course, I am not a customer.