Locking a toddler in her room at night - Page 9

[APToddlerMama]

Originally Posted by hakeber 

Exactly...age appropriate is the key, isn't it?  Didn't you say up thread that you don't lock your child in his room?  That you use gates to protect his safety and think that probably would be a better choice if one had the option?  I still agree with you that that would be an age appropriate way to strike a balance between natural mistrust and building trust.  

Cowbell. :D

Oh my...I said I was going to be done but I'm back ;).  Only because you asked but I'm done then really!  IF my son could get over our gate, I would have to figure something else out, and it is possible that could be locking.  Luckily, he has some motor delays so while he has climbed out a low window before and unlocked the front door and gotten out while we were awake and he was being supervised, he has yet to climb over the gate, thankfully.  And about the 5 seconds...well yes, that is a made up number but that is about how quickly I respond to my kid when he gets up.  If he's crying I am fast, if he's not I will yell to him I'm coming and lay around for a minute.  Point is, it isn't like OP is going to have to run across a football field to get there.  And for me, I generally sleep super light, but there are times I can see myself, especially now that I'm pregnant and exhausted, sleeping through something serious if I didn't have a gate.  My son is quiet when he's doing something he isn't supposed to and loud when he wants me.  In fact, one day that the gate got left opened, I found him in the bathroom throwing towels into the tub with the water running...something he had been trying to do for days!  Saw the opportunity and ran with it...
 

[Boot]

Originally Posted by hakeber 

How do you keep them from taking off the sleep sacks? 

Well, my 15 month old doesn't try to take it off so I assume she is fine with it. She certainly protests loudly about things she doesn't like (bibs, hats, etc) and she can take those off herself. If she wanted to she could wriggle out of the sleepsack I'm sure. But it's not like a straight jacket. She can move freely and even walk in it. It just stops her from spreading her legs far apart like she would need to to get over the side of the crib. The sleep sack also keeps her warm and stops her from pulling her socks off and getting cold feet. In answer to the question upthread about finding them in toddler sizes, it's not an issue for me yet but I've seen them all over the place in larger sizes. Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. 
 

[hakeber]

OT

Originally Posted by Boot 

Well, my 15 month old doesn't try to take it off so I assume she is fine with it. She certainly protests loudly about things she doesn't like (bibs, hats, etc) and she can take those off herself. If she wanted to she could wriggle out of the sleepsack I'm sure. But it's not like a straight jacket. She can move freely and even walk in it. It just stops her from spreading her legs far apart like she would need to to get over the side of the crib. The sleep sack also keeps her warm and stops her from pulling her socks off and getting cold feet. In answer to the question upthread about finding them in toddler sizes, it's not an issue for me yet but I've seen them all over the place in larger sizes. Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. 
 

I am picturing something like Sweetpea from Popeye right now...how cute is that?! 

[insidevoice]

I just have to add that my nearly 3 yo is currently very angry that I won't put the doorknob cover on his door.  I just read him a book so he could take a nap and left the room and he's come out three times already to drag me to the room asking for the cover.  

I'll go put it on after I type this, and he'll take a nap.  When he  wakes up he'll call out to me or knock on the door.  

Maybe I just have strange kids who are obsessively attached to routine. 

I can't imagine using a cover and leaving a kid on the other side if they were upset and trying to get out, for my kid, knowing that he can't get out feels safe.  This is the same kid who happily chants, "Buckle!  Buckle!" when we get in the car and asks for it to be tightened.  

[hakeber]

Originally Posted by insidevoice 

I just have to add that my nearly 3 yo is currently very angry that I won't put the doorknob cover on his door.  I just read him a book so he could take a nap and left the room and he's come out three times already to drag me to the room asking for the cover.  

I'll go put it on after I type this, and he'll take a nap.  When he  wakes up he'll call out to me or knock on the door.  

Maybe I just have strange kids who are obsessively attached to routine. 

I can't imagine using a cover and leaving a kid on the other side if they were upset and trying to get out, for my kid, knowing that he can't get out feels safe.  This is the same kid who happily chants, "Buckle!  Buckle!" when we get in the car and asks for it to be tightened.  

LOL...your kid reminds me of my lovely little students in Seoul who used to chant with glee when we had quizzes and tests and would moan in anguish and disappointment when I had forgotten to make the copies.   AWWWWWWWWW teeeeeeacheeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrr, why can't we have a test today?!

He does realize that the cover only means he can't get out, not that others can't get in, right?  That he's not actually any safer (unlike in a car seat) from anyone but himself? 

[7thDaughter]

Originally Posted by 7thDaughter 

First, the tone of so many postings here has been so hot -- angry, defensive, attacking, using "logic" to attack another person (which I view as a form of verbal abuse) that I could not bear to read them.  This is not what I expect of women at MDC.

hakeber

2) You view logic as a form of verbal abuse?  You think it abusive to ask someone to support their reasoning with clear coherent logic (as you have done)? Logic is how problems are solved, how we reach reasonable conclusions.  It is how we discern between truth and fiction.  I am sure you did not mean that the way it came across, can you explain?

Pardon me for not getting all the quotes in place correctly.  Here is my response to hakeber's question.

I support rational approaches to disagreement.  However I have seen too many instances (and to be honest, most of them were men using "logic" as a weapon against women) where people with very valid views were spoken down to, their views denigrated, their wisdom lost or ignored when decision-making time came, because the more forceful debater was able to use criticism and logical arguments to undercut the voice of the other, who deserved equal respect - and often had wider experiences to draw from, but could not easily or quickly form those experiences into sound bites for a debate.  And when this happens, changing a discussion of various views into a "winning vs losing" argument, yes, it is verbal abuse.  Esp within families where the better debater uses logic as a means to control everyone.  The course based on logic is not necessarily the direction you would follow if you listened to the voice of experience and wisdom, and season it with kindness.  We who practice AP and loving kindness should know this. 

Now, I'm not sure I logically explained my point about logic, but this is my experience with human beings, who use logic to justify and reinforce their emotional decisions, and then deny what they just did.  And yes, we all do this because we are all human.

[insidevoice]

Originally Posted by hakeber 

LOL...your kid reminds me of my lovely little students in Seoul who used to chant with glee when we had quizzes and tests and would moan in anguish and disappointment when I had forgotten to make the copies.   AWWWWWWWWW teeeeeeacheeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrr, why can't we have a test today?!

He does realize that the cover only means he can't get out, not that others can't get in, right?  That he's not actually any safer (unlike in a car seat) from anyone but himself? 

I suspect he's very much going to be that sort of kid.  After all, I was. :P  He's a kid who is very very rigid and likes to know what the rules are and likes everything to be just so. He has some significant verbal delays and many other quirks, but he lives for following rules and routines.  He's a fun kid to parent. 

[hakeber]

Originally Posted by 7thDaughter 

Pardon me for not getting all the quotes in place correctly.  Here is my response to hakeber's question.

I support rational approaches to disagreement.  However I have seen too many instances (and to be honest, most of them were men using "logic" as a weapon against women) where people with very valid views were spoken down to, their views denigrated, their wisdom lost or ignored when decision-making time came, because the more forceful debater was able to use criticism and logical arguments to undercut the voice of the other, who deserved equal respect - and often had wider experiences to draw from, but could not easily or quickly form those experiences into sound bites for a debate.  And when this happens, changing a discussion of various views into a "winning vs losing" argument, yes, it is verbal abuse.  Esp within families where the better debater uses logic as a means to control everyone.  The course based on logic is not necessarily the direction you would follow if you listened to the voice of experience and wisdom, and season it with kindness.  We who practice AP and loving kindness should know this. 

Now, I'm not sure I logically explained my point about logic, but this is my experience with human beings, who use logic to justify and reinforce their emotional decisions, and then deny what they just did.  And yes, we all do this because we are all human.

So to clarify, do you feel that is what has happened HERE in this thread?  Do you feel that there is a winning or losing side and that *I* am using logic to over look someone else's point of view?  I haven't seen a winner or a loser or even a clear definitive SIDE in all of this yet. For there to be a debate, there must be a premise agreed upon and that is still up in the air, actually.

I have always felt that wisdom and experience contribute to logic and reasoning in important ways and that we cannot separate the two.  They both work together to create a woven fabric of understanding.  Of course in order to benefit from one another's wisdom and experience we must be bothered to stick around and share it, even when things get intellectually overhwleming, verbally uncomfortable, or frustrating. Don't you think?

Also, I hate to sound obtuse, but can you also explian that part in bold?  I do not follow.

[hakeber]

Originally Posted by insidevoice 

I suspect he's very much going to be that sort of kid.  After all, I was. :P  He's a kid who is very very rigid and likes to know what the rules are and likes everything to be just so. He has some significant verbal delays and many other quirks, but he lives for following rules and routines.  He's a fun kid to parent. 

I might have missed this, and if I did please direct me to the post so as not repeat yourself, but why did you start using the covers in the first place?

ETA:  I posted the too quickly.  He sounds like a real cutie pie!  I thrive on Chaos.  I am not sure I would know how to meet the needs of a kid who needed that much structure.  I'd do my best, but I am pretty sure I would fail them.  Kudos to you Insidevoice.

[hakeber]

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

Oh my...I said I was going to be done but I'm back ;).  Only because you asked but I'm done then really!  IF my son could get over our gate, I would have to figure something else out, and it is possible that could be locking.  Luckily, he has some motor delays so while he has climbed out a low window before and unlocked the front door and gotten out while we were awake and he was being supervised, he has yet to climb over the gate, thankfully.  And about the 5 seconds...well yes, that is a made up number but that is about how quickly I respond to my kid when he gets up.  If he's crying I am fast, if he's not I will yell to him I'm coming and lay around for a minute.  Point is, it isn't like OP is going to have to run across a football field to get there.  And for me, I generally sleep super light, but there are times I can see myself, especially now that I'm pregnant and exhausted, sleeping through something serious if I didn't have a gate.  My son is quiet when he's doing something he isn't supposed to and loud when he wants me.  In fact, one day that the gate got left opened, I found him in the bathroom throwing towels into the tub with the water running...something he had been trying to do for days!  Saw the opportunity and ran with it...
 

Mmmhmm, I have one of those.  Mad Scientist by day (luckily) Rip van Winkle by night.  At two he flushed a roll of toilet paper down the toilet, and a month or two later decided he knew how to swim just fine and dove head first off the bank into the muddiest river water you have ever seen (my suede boots never were the same again)...Last week, at the age of six mind you, he went to "brush his teeth" while I was marking exams, (sneaky bugger knew I'd be distracted) and a half hour later emmerge from the bathroom with a towel cape and "anti-gravity serum" heading to the balcony to test it.  When I went to the bathroom I discovered he had employed almost an entire bottle of my 25$ body lotion, half a bottle of heads and shoulders and several drops of food coloring (god knows how he got that!).  UGH!

This is why we use a sliding door instead of a gate to block off the living area (not for DS but for DD who shows similar tendencies to her brother).  Of course DS is old enough now to be trusted not to do head dives off the furniture anymore, and watch TV peacefully and even make his own and his sister's breakfast, but we keep the balcony doors and gates padlocked with the keys in my bedside table...ya know, just in case Captain Daring decides to get adventurous.  Oy!

[ladybuggsmom]

I just wanted to say, for the record, that I'm bothered by many of the judgmental responses in this thread.  NO ONE has cookie cutter children, and no answer is for everyone. This Mama was asking for advice based on what she stated she had ALREADY decided.  And I thought that Mothering.com was a place of support, not judgment.  Apparently I was wrong, and will re-think any posts I make in the future.  Even IF one were to disagree, it can be done in a factual, non-judgmental way, or with no response, not in the way that many of you chose to do it.

To the OP, I'm personally sorry that you had to endure the backlash that you did...I hope that you find a solution that works best for your child and your family that keeps you all sleeping happily and safe.

I hope that the Mamas here that are thoughtful about the way they parent and raise their children but not about their responses to OP can show that same thoughtfulness in interacting here and in society as a whole in the future.

[NaturalMama311]

Wow I couldn't even read through most of the repsonses on this thread because of all the negativity and backlash.  I too am bothered at how judgemental some people can be. 

Since I couldn't bring myself to get through the many pages of responses to see if your question has been answered I'm just going to tell you briefly what we do with DD and it seems to work.  When we put DD to bed we shut her door, which also has a door knob cover on the inside because she learned how to open her door to get out.  She typically falls asleep within 15 minutes, sometimes longer, but she stays in her room and plays, reads or just talks/sings herself to sleep.  We have a monitor on so if she were to need us she knows to call out for us and we'll be right there for her.  Once we know she is asleep we go and open her bedroom door so if she needs to get out in the middle of the night for any reason she can freely do so.  She is pretty good about coming into our bedroom if she needs something or when she wakes up in the morning.  A few times she has gone downstairs but that rarely happened so we didn't feel a need to gate off any part of the house. 

Hope that helps and I'm sorry you had to deal with all the judgemental responses to your question!

[Boot]

Well, since the thread seems to have calmed down I want to share one of my friends stories from when her daughter was about two. She slept in her own room in a sleepsack with a gate up. I don't remember if she was in a crib or a bed at that point. One morning her parents were in bed and they saw bubbles floating past the window. They leapt up and discovered their daughter had scaled the gate, unlocked the balcony door and was standing on a chair on the balcony blowing bubbles (in her sleepsack). After that the door was locked. Some kids require extreme measures! 

[APToddlerMama]

Originally Posted by Boot 

Well, since the thread seems to have calmed down I want to share one of my friends stories from when her daughter was about two. She slept in her own room in a sleepsack with a gate up. I don't remember if she was in a crib or a bed at that point. One morning her parents were in bed and they saw bubbles floating past the window. They leapt up and discovered their daughter had scaled the gate, unlocked the balcony door and was standing on a chair on the balcony blowing bubbles (in her sleepsack). After that the door was locked. Some kids require extreme measures! 

LOL!! Wow!  That is a great story and illustrates a point it seems many have forgotten. 
 

[expat-mama]

Originally Posted by NaturalMama311 

Wow I couldn't even read through most of the repsonses on this thread because of all the negativity and backlash.  I too am bothered at how judgemental some people can be. 

Yes- this. Hugs and support to the OP.

I don't have this to worry about yet, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with "locking" your DD in her room at night while she sleeps. As long as she knows that you will come the second she needs you, I don't see the difference between this and a gate or any other safety barrier.

I am a passionate believer in all sorts of freedom and absence of limitations and authority in many, MANY instances but I believe that for small children to learn how to become responsible adults and for their own safety they very often need these kinds of limits and a strong authority to gently show them the way and keep them secure until they can do it themselves.  Nothing wrong with that!

[cyclamen]

Originally Posted by insidevoice 
I can't imagine using a cover and leaving a kid on the other side if they were upset and trying to get out, for my kid, knowing that he can't get out feels safe.  This is the same kid who happily chants, "Buckle!  Buckle!" when we get in the car and asks for it to be tightened.  

threadjack -
DD also does this.  Put her in anything with a buckle and she will buckle herself in if she can, and ask me to do it if she can't.  Totally routine oriented.

[MommaBirdie]

We just turned the door knobs around so the lock was on the outside.
We started locking the kids in their room once they transitioned from the crib to a bed.
It didn't terrorize them or anything, it didn't even make them cry, it just made them knock on their door in the morning so I can let them out.
If it terrorized them, we would have sought out a different option.