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If Not Vaccines, Then WHAT Causes Autism?  

post #1 of 325
Thread Starter 

So, do we know what causes autism? Not yet. What are some of your thoughts?

 

Although I do believe vaccines can contribute to some cases of autism, how do we explain autism in the unvaccinated? Is autism only genetic, and not caused by anything else?

 

I would like to look at the rapid increase in autism, I guess within the last 20+ years. What has changed in our lives, and does it relate to the rise in autism?

 

Ok, here are some points I would like to learn more about. Are any of these responsible for autism? Maybe a combination, mixed with a genetic predisposition, and *poof* we have case of autism?

 

  • Vaccines
  • GMO food
  • Toxins in our food and environment
  • Electromagnetic wave disturbances
  • Ultrasounds
  • Drugs used during labor
  • Drugs used during pregnancy and/or breastfeeding
  • Genetics

 

What else can we add to the list? I want to be clear--I don't think there are any wrong answers here. Since we don't really know yet, how can we say that any one of these does Not cause autism? A true scientific thinker should never close his/her mind.

 

Look at how much has changed in the last 20+ years, and how these changes correspond with the rise in autism.

It is my opinion that some people can be more sensitive than others, and in such individuals, autism is the result. This explains why there are cases of autism in the unvaccinated.

post #2 of 325

I like your list. I would add Lyme disease to it.

 

Many of the exposures are very difficult to avoid. Vaccines are easy to avoid, and often the last straw. Most, but not all kids can avoid autism if not vaccinated. 

 

I think vaccines contribute to all cases of autism, except of course in the unvaccinated. But let's not forget about an "unvaccinated" child whose mother got vaccinated during pregnancy. Also, many toxic exposures affect more than one generation. So a mother's vaccines during childhood could hurt her baby. So even in the unvaccinated, vaccines could actually be playing a role.

post #3 of 325
Thread Starter 

Brilliant Ma2two, I totally agree!

 

I would also like to add to the list, and clarify a few of the points.

 

On the whole subject of toxins, we should investigate:

  • Mercury in fillings
  • Fluoride in water supply
  • Aluminum in vaccines, food, packaging

 

How do these toxins effect each other? Could the mercury in a mother's fillings react with fluoride (and other chemicals) in the water supply? That could be a reason why an unvaccinated child develops autism. Or, could the aluminum in vaccines react with the fluoride and other chemicals in the water? What about reactions between medications and vaccines? 

 

The questions and combinations are endless! The only way to get to the bottom of this is to do the research. How can you say that vaccines certainly do Not cause autism? It has not been proven OR disproven. And, why is the medical establishment so quick to dismiss vaccines as a possible cause? We should be trying our hardest to find out the causes of autism, even if it means looking into areas that make us uncomfortable. The truth is out there somewhere, and I am willing to look at ANY possibility.

 

post #4 of 325

I agree.

 

The combination of genetic predispositions and toxins in our environment, including the ones that are injected, are probably responsible for the rise in autism.  In the past, I know that there has been vaccine damage in my family. Therefore I am in the best position to who decide if my child is going to take any chances with vaccines.

post #5 of 325

A bit off topic because you're asking what *causes* autism and I can't answer that (nor, i think, can anyone else!).

 

But one thing I haven't seen mentioned yet as a reason for the supposed increase in autism is the changing criteria for what constitutes autism (change in the DSM) + growing awareness on the part of teachers, parents, and health care professionals of autism spectrum behaviors. Children who were once viewed as simply weird, quirky, or difficult are now receiving an actual diagnosis. So maybe the DSM is causing autism! wink1.gif

post #6 of 325

Quote:

Originally Posted by DariusMom View Post

But one thing I haven't seen mentioned yet as a reason for the supposed increase in autism is the changing criteria for what constitutes autism (change in the DSM) + growing awareness on the part of teachers, parents, and health care professionals of autism spectrum behaviors. Children who were once viewed as simply weird, quirky, or difficult are now receiving an actual diagnosis. So maybe the DSM is causing autism! wink1.gif

 

Nope.

 

http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ehs/news/autism-and-environment
 

 

post #7 of 325

A friend who works with autistic folks (art therapy) is convinced that hypoxia during birth can lead to autism. Does anyone know whether this is correct?

post #8 of 325

My dd has autism. She is unvaxed. Her first 2 years she never had gluten, had very little dairy, her environment was sanitary no pets were allowed in and she had air purifiers fans humidifiers, mattress wrap for SIDS, etc. The pop-up caught my eye and I thought I would put in.. I was induced for days and despite doctors saying she'd be just fine her lungs were not developed yet and had to have oxygen and meds for a few weeks. I also recall her not getting oxygen when I finally got her out. It's a bit blurry but seemed I was breathing wrong (trying to do my rehearsed breathing) and she wasn't getting oxygen and next thing I knew an oxygen mask was put on me (I felt fine?) and I was cut to get her out faster. We haven't been able to afford the fragile x genetic condition which causes some autism (2k for the one the dr wants) so I can't rule that out. But I knew it wasn't time for her to be born when they induced me. She wouldn't even do a practice breath on ultrasound. She worried them a lot at check ups which I did twice a week. I just knew in my heart it was the wrong time but the dr scared me bad and I had no support system. When I got her home she very often stopped breathing,huge long hard 2 inch boogers clogged her pathway completely several times a day and she didn't  know how to breath out of her mouth. (most likely from the feeding tubes I am guessing) Very scary. I  never slept so I could save her little life all day and night long.

 

It's always been in the back of my mind it was an oxygen thing but I don't know. I do have mercury fillings and I have drunk water though the tap. No one in my family has autism. I never got any vaccinations during pregnancy. I did get the rho gam shot though. I took metformin the whole pregnancy (was terrified I'd lose her). I drank out of alluminum cans occasionally but wouldn't cook with it. I took vitamins and essential oils (that mom version of fish oil without the fish). I had at least 4 ultrasounds. Hmm what else?

post #9 of 325

What about older men and women having babies? Hasn't there already been several studies that show that having children later in life is linked to an increase risk of having a child with autism? There was even a study that showed that older men having children with younger women had a higher incidence of having a child with autism compared to older men having kids with an older woman.

 

Maternal and paternal age and risk of autism spectrum disorders. 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17404129

 

Advancing paternal age and autism.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16953005

 

Advanced parental age and the risk of autism spectrum disorder.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18945690

 

 

I think Terbutaline use during pregnancy is also a risk factor and something that should be studied more especially with all the multiple births (and therefore premature births) nowadays.

 

Neuroinflammation and behavioral abnormalities after neonatal terbutaline treatment in rats:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17400887

 

beta2-adrenergic receptor activation and genetic polymorphisms in autism: data from dizygotic twins.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16417856

 

Air pollution--  since living close to a freeway while pregnant increases your risk of having child with autism.

 

Residential Proximity to Freeways and Autism in the CHARGE study.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21156395

post #10 of 325

Autism is hella genetic.  My mom, brother, and one sister are autistic.  Me, my dad, and other sister have AS.  I suspect my mom's mom is autistic.  I suspect my three year old son has AS (never vaccinated).  Not a single one of us is diagnosed.  The seeming rise in autism is better screening and diagnosis. 

post #11 of 325

Autism screening (which basically didn't happen before 20 years ago, and couldn't happen before 30 years ago) is the single largest and least scary factor, which is the the clear and undeniable source of the "autism epidemic",

 

We found Autism a lot more often when we started looking for it.  Shocking!  Call the press!

 

Autism was not in the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistics Manual of Mental Disorders) until 1980, so it is un-shocking that there were very few cases of diagnosed Autism until 1980, and the few cases that were diagnosed were in individuals who were lower functioning.   In 1994 (17 years ago) the DSM included Asperger's, Rett's, and PDD-NOS, guess what happened after those were introduced?  EPIDEMIC!!! Children all over were diagnosed with these newly diagnosable conditions.  The simple answer is that, well, not many specialists could diagnose them before then.  You know what, in May 2013, Asperger's, PDD-NOS, and Autistic Disorder will be replaced in the DSM with "Autistic Spectrum Disorder" and I think we will see an EPIDEMIC!!!! of children who get an Autistic Spectrum disorder, 100% more kids than get that specific diagnosis than today!!!

 

So how is it possible that all of these kids had no diagnosis before the DSM contained diagnostic criteria for Autism?  Where were these kids hiding?  Where are all these Autistic adults?   Well, they are simply undiagnosed.

http://autismus.posterous.com/600000-adults-in-uk-could-have-undiagnosed-au

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2011-05/uol-aw050411.php

post #12 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeckyBird View Post

So, do we know what causes autism? Not yet. What are some of your thoughts?

 

Although I do believe vaccines can contribute to some cases of autism, how do we explain autism in the unvaccinated? Is autism only genetic, and not caused by anything else?

 

I would like to look at the rapid increase in autism, I guess within the last 20+ years. What has changed in our lives, and does it relate to the rise in autism?

 

Ok, here are some points I would like to learn more about. Are any of these responsible for autism? Maybe a combination, mixed with a genetic predisposition, and *poof* we have case of autism?

 

  • Vaccines
  • GMO food
  • Toxins in our food and environment
  • Electromagnetic wave disturbances
  • Ultrasounds
  • Drugs used during labor
  • Drugs used during pregnancy and/or breastfeeding
  • Genetics

 

What else can we add to the list? I want to be clear--I don't think there are any wrong answers here. Since we don't really know yet, how can we say that any one of these does Not cause autism? A true scientific thinker should never close his/her mind.

 

Look at how much has changed in the last 20+ years, and how these changes correspond with the rise in autism.

It is my opinion that some people can be more sensitive than others, and in such individuals, autism is the result. This explains why there are cases of autism in the unvaccinated.


Wow, I thought we, as a society, had moved beyond blaming the mother for her child's autism.

 

Do you have a child with autism, OP?   I do.    And it is almost certainly genetic. I did not cause his autism by the ultrasounds I had during pregnancy, the drugs I used during pregnancy and birth, the food I ate and fed him, my breastfeeding relationship with him, or the vaccines I provided him with.

 

post #13 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by EarthRootsStarSoul View Post

Autism is hella genetic.  My mom, brother, and one sister are autistic.  Me, my dad, and other sister have AS.  I suspect my mom's mom is autistic.  I suspect my three year old son has AS (never vaccinated).  Not a single one of us is diagnosed.  The seeming rise in autism is better screening and diagnosis. 



 



Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaggyDaddy View Post

Autism screening (which basically didn't happen before 20 years ago, and couldn't happen before 30 years ago) is the single largest and least scary factor, which is the the clear and undeniable source of the "autism epidemic",

 

We found Autism a lot more often when we started looking for it.  Shocking!  Call the press!

 

Autism was not in the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistics Manual of Mental Disorders) until 1980, so it is un-shocking that there were very few cases of diagnosed Autism until 1980, and the few cases that were diagnosed were in individuals who were lower functioning.   In 1994 (17 years ago) the DSM included Asperger's, Rett's, and PDD-NOS, guess what happened after those were introduced?  EPIDEMIC!!! Children all over were diagnosed with these newly diagnosable conditions.  The simple answer is that, well, not many specialists could diagnose them before then.  You know what, in May 2013, Asperger's, PDD-NOS, and Autistic Disorder will be replaced in the DSM with "Autistic Spectrum Disorder" and I think we will see an EPIDEMIC!!!! of children who get an Autistic Spectrum disorder, 100% more kids than get that specific diagnosis than today!!!

 

So how is it possible that all of these kids had no diagnosis before the DSM contained diagnostic criteria for Autism?  Where were these kids hiding?  Where are all these Autistic adults?   Well, they are simply undiagnosed.

http://autismus.posterous.com/600000-adults-in-uk-could-have-undiagnosed-au

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2011-05/uol-aw050411.php



All this!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Peppermint Poppies View Post




Wow, I thought we, as a society, had moved beyond blaming the mother for her child's autism.

 

Do you have a child with autism, OP?   I do.    And it is almost certainly genetic. I did not cause his autism by the ultrasounds I had during pregnancy, the drugs I used during pregnancy and birth, the food I ate and fed him, my breastfeeding relationship with him, or the vaccines I provided him with.

 

Exactly. Let's always blame the mom for whatever is wrong . . .. if only she'd eaten all organic, her child wouldn't have autism!  [insert eye roll]

 

Better screening, more awareness = more autism.
 

 

post #14 of 325



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DariusMom View Post

A bit off topic because you're asking what *causes* autism and I can't answer that (nor, i think, can anyone else!).

 

But one thing I haven't seen mentioned yet as a reason for the supposed increase in autism is the changing criteria for what constitutes autism (change in the DSM) + growing awareness on the part of teachers, parents, and health care professionals of autism spectrum behaviors. Children who were once viewed as simply weird, quirky, or difficult are now receiving an actual diagnosis. So maybe the DSM is causing autism! wink1.gif


I think this is an important point!
 

 

post #15 of 325
Thread Starter 

Hold on people.......all I want is to lay out any Possibilities........what is wrong with doing studies and asking questions? Did I say these factors definitely cause autism? No, I did not say that at ALL......But why should you be afraid to explore any and every possibility? You don't want to explore any possibility that might be viewed as the "mother's fault", so then I guess we can't open that topic of conversation at all? That is unacceptable.

 

And, how are environmental toxins the "mother's fault"?!? Is fluoride in the water "mother's fault"?!?  Electromagnetic pollution the "mother's fault"?!?  Can we be adults here, and try to look at any cause that might be possible? Any and every? Jeez, I was never trying to offend anybody here, and if you took it that way, well then I am sorry. But, as a scientific thinking individual, I am very interested in any study that might explore possible links.

 

 

post #16 of 325
Thread Starter 

Babygirlie, thank you for sharing your story with us. You understood that my question was not about blame, but about hope. About finding answers. Your oxygen theory is very interesting, and it makes a lot of sense. If the brain is deprived of oxygen, could autism be a result?

 

And, great job helping your sweet little girl. I can't imagine how hard it must have been in the beginning. You sound like a wonderful mom!

post #17 of 325
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peppermint Poppies View Post


Wow, I thought we, as a society, had moved beyond blaming the mother for her child's autism.

 

Do you have a child with autism, OP?   I do.    And it is almost certainly genetic. I did not cause his autism by the ultrasounds I had during pregnancy, the drugs I used during pregnancy and birth, the food I ate and fed him, my breastfeeding relationship with him, or the vaccines I provided him with.

 



You say this with such certainty, but you don't know for sure, do you? Have scientists researched this at all?  I'm not putting the blame on you, or anybody else, but if ultrasounds, drugs, bad food, vaccines, etc, did cause autism, wouldn't you like to know about it? Instead of covering your eyes and ears, and denying there might be a link somewhere? You won't even entertain the possibility that there may be a link. Maybe there is no link, but the only way to know for sure is to start the research!!

 

post #18 of 325

I think the face of autism and the understanding of what comprises it has changed greatly. I remember in elementary school (so this is the mid 70s, maybe very early 80s, as I can't recall what grade I was in) we were shown a film about an autistic boy. The boy spent much of his time spinning plates and flapping his arms. He was really in his own world. Fast forward to today. I have a friend whose brother is autistic, but this man has nothing in common with that child in the film, nor ever has. If he were born 30 years earlier, he would simply be a quirky guy with an amazing memory for numbers and musical patterns, an unusual penchant for rule, a kind of bossy nature, and not the greatest social skills.

 

I do think the definition has expanded so much, to include such a range, that it is bound to have an effect on the numbers. I read the study cited upthread that says it's not the new DSM guidelines, but I'm just not convinced. I'd like to see how they conducted that study. If their study is valid and done in an unbiased manner, and replicatable by other studies, then wow, we really DO need to look at environmental and genetic factors a little more closely. Clearly, there are factors other than just the DSM, and they should be looked at, and I think they are. 

 

I also think that as a culture we LOVE to DSM everything. I kinda think that, just like people are born with differing athletic abilities (for example), they are also born with different thinking abilities. I mentioned my friend's brother. His grasp of patterns is really amazing and maybe in a different setting than he's currently in would be extremely useful. Maybe if we, as a society, learned to accept and see the value in differences rather than pathologizing them, we'd be farther ahead as a collective.

 

Just think about people like Alan Turing. He almost certainly was on the spectrum, but without him WWII may have turned out quite differently.

post #19 of 325

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DariusMom View Post

 

But one thing I haven't seen mentioned yet as a reason for the supposed increase in autism is the changing criteria for what constitutes autism (change in the DSM) + growing awareness on the part of teachers, parents, and health care professionals of autism spectrum behaviors. Children who were once viewed as simply weird, quirky, or difficult are now receiving an actual diagnosis. So maybe the DSM is causing autism! wink1.gif


But if this is the case, and if there is a growing awareness of autism, why aren't we seeing more adults being diagnosed with autism today? Why does it seem to be mostly in children?

post #20 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverMoon010 View Post


But if this is the case, and if there is a growing awareness of autism, why aren't we seeing more adults being diagnosed with autism today? Why does it seem to be mostly in children?



Maybe because the adults have already figured out ways to deal with it, have found some sort of niche and are functioning in the world. Maybe they don't see the need to go get diagnosed as an adult. Whereas children are more on the radar, being in school and expected to conform to a certain model of learning and behaving, and they have just more supervision generally. That might be one reason.

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