Quote:
Originally Posted by
ursusarctos 
Newsolarmama, I agree with you about libertarianism. That's why I am not libertarian either. It's just too idealistic considering the world we actually live in.
I think there may be some confusion about the terms "liberal" and "libertarian" in this thread. As far as I understand, they are far from the same thing. "Liberal" tends to mean "left" with all the economic and social regulation that implies, whereas I generally understand libertarian to mean anti-regulation of all kinds - though I have also noticed that some people who call themselves "libertarian" are socially very conservative. But that's the thing, these terms are so vague and can mean so many different things to different people. So when people say they are libertarian or liberal that doesn't actually tell me much. I would be interested in hearing what people actually believe in, rather than just a label.
Now this is fascinating, and I was surprised when someone mentioned in last night (but too tired to respond). Because I grew up in Europe, I probably have a different understanding of the word Liberal. Over here (countries I have lived in), it means right of center, while left, "nanny state" folks would be called socialists.
I currently live in a post-communist country that no longer offers the benefits of the "parental state" (no, not going to use the world paternal 
) but still carries the burdens of that same state, namely high levels bureaucracy, few civil liberties, and now also lots of corruption. I class myself as a libertarian in this country because the economic situation means the benefits (welfare, healthcare, etc - they are theoretically there but the bureaucracy seems to decide at will who gets them and who doesn't, and there are more token then a real benefit) are not going to come along soon, so we need the state to allow citizens to then take full responsibility for their lives.
As it stands, the things that are so dear to many on MDC are mostly illegal here - homebirth is not illegal but having one gives people a lot of administrative trouble, not vaccinating is a crime, as is homeschooling. Which, unfortunately, means we are breaking the law. Yet, unless you have gone through hundreds of hours of bureaucracy, you will have to pay for your own vaccines. Private health insurance is starting to be available, for some limited purposes.
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