Anyone nurse their kids to sleep ... and they stay asleep? In a crib?

[MSWmama]

We've been doing the No Cry Sleep Solution to help DS (6.5 months) start the night in his crib, and then cosleep for the rest of the night. 

Those of you who've read NCSS will probably remember that she's huge on breaking the sucking-to-sleep association by popping the baby off the breast before they fall asleep. We've had no luck with that. He wakes up immediately, becomes enraged, needs to be nursed back down, etc. We've been trying for over a month! He won't take a pacifier in that situation.  If I nurse DS into a sleep-coma and lay him in his crib, he'll stay asleep for anywhere from 10 minutes to 2 hours... the times do seem to be getting longer and longer, but over an hour is rare and over two hours is unheard of. If he's in bed with us, he'll nurse to sleepy, pop off himself, and then sleep happily for 3 hours or so. 

So ... tell me about nursing your kiddos to sleep. Anyone have kids that got to the point where they could stay asleep longer on their own, without breaking the sucking-to-sleep association? Anyone have any tips on the Pantley pop-off on a really strong-willed baby who wants the boob all the time? I don't have high expectations at this point, but if he would do a 3-4 hour stretch in his crib before waking up that would improve my life soooo much! 

TIA

[sacredpresence]

Just want to give you a data point... The ppo never worked for me. I did have some success getting her to sleep without nursing but it didn't make her sleep longer. She still does only about thirty mins in her crib before waking. She is 13 months.

[Tattooed Hand]

Yeah, in my experience the PPO did not work. I tried for months.We went through a period where I would nurse her and DH would walk her to sleep.

I unlatch her, but only once she's asleep. Lately, like the last month, she lets me unlatch her sometimes and rolls over and goes to sleep. But only sometimes. And she is 17 months old. She still nurses to sleep most nights, wakes up 1-2 times before I go to bed and then gives me a 5-7 hour stretch, waking up to nurse around 4 or 5am. We've done nothing different, except dealt with some of her food intolerances and she's just grown older. I think for some people the PPO works but if your little one needs the boob, she needs the boob. I got mine to accept it and she still woke up every 1-2 hours until she was 11 months old. so it was all for nothing.

[poorlittlefish]

The PPO worked like a charm for my older DD, this one?  Not so much.  She is now 11 months old and we are ready to pull our hair out because she cannot put herself to sleep when she wakes up after 10mins, 2 hours, etc.

Watching this thread closely!

[savithny]

Both my kids started the night in their own beds and only came in with us at middle of the night/early morning awakenings.    

I'd nurse them down to limpness and then put them (swaddled, at first) down.    This was relatlvely early compared to many BF/Cosleeping moms who seem to try this around their own bedtime.   It moved around, started around 9pm when they seemed open to it, and moved earlier (eventually it was 8pm for #1 and 7pm for #1).   This time sort of became obvious, because #1 was an evening cluster feeder who nursed almost constantly from 5pm-11pm from week 3 to week 9 -- and then one night he nursed and nursed... and fell asleep at 9pm and stayed asleep!   I still remember how that felt - I was so "at loose ends" because, well, I could put him down and walk around the house!   #2 never had the evening cluster feeds, but did something similar where there seemed to be a time at which she was ready for a slightly longer, deeper, sleep.

And then both my kids started doing this thing around 9-10 months old where they would no longer nurse to sleep.  They'd nurse... pop off and look around .... nurse some more .... look around some more.  But in a very calm, quiet sort of way.    And with #1 I was finding this awfully frustrating one evening so I rocked him for a few minutes and put him down in his crib and went to go pee (which is why I was so frustrated that night) and..... he fell asleep.    

I was kinda shocked.  But he did it again, and again.  Not every single night, but many nights.   Enough nights that he could be considered to be putting himself to sleep.

[ssh]

I was never able to unlatch DD while she was still awake. After about 9 months on, I could nurse her to sleep and then roll out of bed and she would stay asleep for a few hours. I don't understand why some people are so determined to break the sucking-to-sleep association. It's a need during a specific developmental period so they outgrow it. Once my DD weaned herself she had a transition period where she wiggled herself to sleep and then she just goes to sleep. At 5 she has no sleep issues at all and sleeps a solid 10 hours each night in her own bed.

[MSWmama]

DS is capable of falling asleep without sucking (between his bedtime and when I go to bed, DH goes in to resettle him, and rarely needs me to nurse) ... it just seems like he can't fall asleep without some kind of help from us, kwim? So if it's not nursing, it's DH rocking / bouncing. Although at the same time, it seems like sometimes we're distracting / bothering him from falling asleep. But if we just lay him in his crib sleepy-but-awake he cries and can't seem to figure out how to fall asleep, even if we stay in with him and pat / shush / whatever. So I'm not sure if it's a ppo problem or not. 

I don't really care if he needs to nurse to sleep or not. I just want him to sleep alone for more than 30 minutes at a stretch! Pantley's idea of breaking the suck-to-sleep association makes intuitive sense to me in a general way, but since ds CAN fall asleep without sucking (just needs help somehow), I'm not sure if pushing the ppo will help in the long run.

[GoBecGo]

I get into bed with DD2 (11months) at about 8pm.  Sometimes i talk to DP or read to DD1 (5), sometimes i just nurse the baby and don't do anything else.

Some nights (most) she falls asleep in my bed, sucking, and i leave her there until i come to bed at about 11pm, when i feed her again, then put her in the cot.  She sleeps until 4 or 5am. 

Some nights (a few right now, but more than previously) she nurses but pops on and off and looks around and won't settle, so i put her into the cot and then lie in bed nearby, usually reading.  And she falls asleep.  At 11pm i lift her out and feed her again then put her back in the cot.  She sleeps until 4 or 5am.

I personally think the books (pick one) on this sort of thing are fairly useless, but the techniques give one something to do while one is waiting for the baby to get older and sleep better.

[LittleBirdy]

Originally Posted by GoBecGo 

I personally think the books (pick one) on this sort of thing are fairly useless, but the techniques give one something to do while one is waiting for the baby to get older and sleep better.

I needed to hear that... thank you!
 

[themothership]

With us it was definitely a wait until she was older thing. She falls asleep on her own in her crib (with someone in the room) and will sleep anywhere from 2-6 hours (if it is 2 someone goes in and pats her back, more than 4 and she gets in bed with us).

[raftergurl]

I don't have great advice for you, but just wanted to share my experience. for awhile,sat, up to 4 or 5 months, I was putting DD down to bed in her own crib  When she would wake up, it was so easy to bring her to the bad and let her nurse as we both went back to sleep.. I had a lot of guilt about this, though, because popular opinion says co-sleeping is a bad thing. the first part was challenging, though- putting her down ihn her crib- b/c as soon as her head touched the mattress, many times she would wake up and I would have to start all over again what with the singing and the rocking and such. Enter attachment parenting and all of it's gloriousness.  it was a huge relief. "whatwhat?? follow my instincts? she can sleep in my bed with me, really? that's awesome, because i hate to be separated from her and miss her even when she's sleeping." i loved having my instincts validated- it makes me feel like a good, competant mom. My mother warns me against having LO in the bed with me- says there will come a time when i won't want her in the bed anymore. (bf always sleeps on the couch- so it's me, DD, and my 3 large (one is 117lbs!) dogs in the double bed. i call this "forced cuddling.") i am a first-time mom, but i just can't imagine a time when i wouldn't want her near me. i am madly in love with my baby. i am counting on her to listen to her inner needs and want her own bed when she is ready. this infant stage lasts for such a short time- i want to take every advantage of it and not waste a moment. l'm blessed with the luxury of being a SAHM  Later, i am sure that i won't be cool and she will want to walk ahead of me in the mall- won't listen to a thing I say and become a professional eye-roller, but right now, she needs me. and that feels so good. this goes for BFing also- hoping she will naturally wean herself. (that's apparently what my brother and i did.).

[RoamingWidgeteer]

Here's my limited experience:

Ds is almost 10months old now, but the pattern has been pretty consistent since he was ~4months old. We nurse to sleep sometime between 9 and 11 pm (when he's ready, he falls asleep very quickly, otherwise you can forget it). I put him down in our shared bed, and he will wake to nurse every hour until 1am. Then he sleeps through until 7am, and starts nursing every hour until 9am, when he wakes.

We tried getting him to sleep earlier, but that didn't work (he was quite content to be bounced on the exercise ball with a boob in the mouth, but sleeping wasn't an option), so now we just accept that this is his pattern and I keep an ear out for him waking and wanting a feed until we join him in bed.

[silvermist]

Mine could never let go of the breast at any time. She stayed latched on ALL night. Now, almost 4 yrs old, she cannot take nap or fall asleep at night on her own. If she's w/ me, she still can't "let go"  or be unlatched w/out waking up and crying. my husband can rock and sing her to sleep, but if he tries to put her down after that, she wakes up crying. one or the other of us is still holding her constantly, all night. no sleep for us for 4 years= grouchy crabby people.

[wishin'&hopin']

The PPO did work for us...but we started doing it at about 4 months for daytime nursings/nappings...now at 14 months I can say "ready for nigh-nights" and he pops off (awake) and I put him in the crib and he goes to sleep.

It sounds miraculous--feels that way too.  Feel free to look up the number of sleep deprived posts of desperation I've put up!  It may just be that he's finally older and just sleeping better with more mature sleep behaviours!

[mamaprovides]

I have a 3yr old and a 13m old.

I don't start any sleep training until after 9m because the sleep resets so many times before then. (For us sleep changed at 3m, 6m, & 9m) So I just wait and try to be mindful of behaviors and routines and so on.

I will say, I don't use PPO because we don't have pacifiers or bottles to use. However, here are tricks I use (none are glamorous ^_^)

I have notice that what wakes mine up isn't the lack of sucking but the sudden pressure change. So...I wait until the breathing shifts. there is usually a pause in breathing followed by a very deep breath then long deep breathes. Once I have this I put my index finger in my mouth and make sure it doesn't taste like handsoap or lotion or whatever and I leave it wet then I start at the corner of mouth and s-l-o-w-l-y work my way in until I can slide my nipple out. During this time they stir and nurse a little then I freeze and hope they go for the finger. If they do then I proceed. With the suction broken, it is fairly easy to get my finger out. When this doesn't work I try the push-me pull-you...where I lean back so that there is tension (not very comfortable). Once asleep I learn forward so that the slack is taken up...this worked with my son...not really with my daughter. The third sounds awful...(I take a shallow breath and hold it) I lean forward so that their nose is obstruct they can still breath but not very well. When they take the breath they break the latch and usually settle down to sleep. I always lean back when I need my breath. I probably shouldn't put that last one in but desperate times call for desperate measures.

I also find that teething makes a huge difference so I never try very hard when teething is in play.

[KateDavies45]

actually yes. DD(5.5mo) still nurses down most of the time but as long as she's ready for bed (we wait to try and get her down for the night until around 9pm or later) she'll nurse for about 30 min until she's quite deeply asleep and either she'll let go on her own and I put her down or I can gently break her latch and put her down. We've recently moved her to her own bed since she was VERY mobile in her sleep (ie. thrashing around and waking both of us up) and she now sleeps after nursing down for about 7 hours or so, she does occasionally still wake during that time but usually she'll play with her bear (weird tiny blanket bear rattle thing that my mother gave her) and resettle herself and fall back asleep. (if she's wet, or is truly hungry then I usually either nurse her and put her back down or change her then nurse her back down but once the problem is resolved she'll go right back to sleep. Occasionally if I'm just super tired I'll offer her a paci when I change her and sometimes it works if she just wants to suck and sometimes it doesn't.)  I haven't actually read NCSS but if you've been trying for a month to break the sucking to sleep habit (without success) why not nurse LO into a sleep coma and then put him in his crib and see if he stays asleep longer?

[purplerose]

My first two sucked to sleep, then were laid into their cribs and they stayed asleep. My third was from a different world where normalness does not apply lol. But yes, it was normal for us and could be done. I coslept part time I guess, when they woke during the night they were brought into bed with me for the rest of the night. But they went to bed in their cribs first. I didn't do any kind of sleep training and they were a few months old. I figure this baby will be done the same. Cosleep full time(except daytime when I'm busy with 3 other kids) for the first few months, then start the night in the crib. I can't imagine putting a little baby to bed without nursing it to sleep!(or pacifiering it). We are very big on rocking babies here. Babysat babies were always rocked+pacifier to sleep at my house, also.

[purplerose]

Ha- reading some of your answers about all the work that goes into putting a baby down without waking him...I remember that kind of thing, but what's funny is those same kids can grow up to sleep through anything whatsoever. And that's really fun on April Fool's Day when you are turning all their bedroom furniture around backwards with them IN the bed you're moving around :)