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Parents keep child's sex secret - What do you think? - Page 9

post #161 of 224

 

 

Quote:
 Some may see it as someone trying to push a gender sterotype on someone, but the person just could have been trying to say something nice.

 

 

why even attach gender to it? why not say a non-gender nicety if you have to say something?

 

it's not just about "gender" any more- total stranger speak freely about parent choices/style and it is not gender related-that use to be rare-it isn't any more

 

I have two children and a 20 year difference between, I never got the parenting comments from stranger like I do now

 

off- but my DD looks super young for her age- she was babysitting and pushing the stroller (in her mid 20's) - she was assaulted verbally by a stranger for having a child "at such a young age"- person thought nothing of saying what they said-just walking in the development where she was sitting 

 

I have gotten comments like I never did before on my "parenting" in the grocery store, sitting in a dinner, etc 

 

I think in general people really are not nice to people they don't know

 

regarding gender- look at all the reports of gender related random "hate" crimes committed by strangers on gays and trans (due solely to how they "look")

post #162 of 224

Wow, lot of interesting post in here. 

 

I don't agree with the parent's choice by making their choice to raise Storm this way public. Most people don't care. IMO you are either a boy/girl thats all most people are interested in knowing when asking about a baby in my experience. Because well they don't want to offend. How many times does a person here on message boards or in real life how upset someone is because they have a girl and people go oh what a cute little boy. 

Yes there are real jerks out there but I think its the minority in most cases. 

 

 

post #163 of 224

lovelylisa-

I totally agree with your point about complimenting a kid and how sometimes people get offended by it- I think it is great to compliment a kid on their beauty, strength, smarts, everything-

I have a friend who was always uncomfortable by people telling her daughter when she was little that she was pretty. It didn't make sense to me! there is nothing wrong, imo, with appreciating someones beauty. It doesn't, to me, some across as- you are pretty and that is your only value. It doesn't even feel gender specific. I tell my ds all the time how smart, handsome, etcetera he is. I don't see that as a bad thing- it is just an expression of affection. I tell it to my dh too! anyway, sort of an aside from the original topic but I wanted to agree with what you said

post #164 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chamomile Girl View Post





No they can't.  Because it teaches that girls need to value their beauty (and by omission not their strength), and that boys need to value their strength (and by omission not their beauty).  Both of these are stereotypes that need to be challenged.

 

And at what point does someone's "right" to be nice (in a way I do not deem appropriate) trump my kid's right to not be pigeonholed because of their perceived gender?



And what if I call your son beautiful and your daughter strong? Are those comments pigenholing them?

 

I guess I just don't get the need to be so scared of what society will do to our children. I feel badly for these parents that they seem to have so little faith in themselves and those around them to support their child in a loving way to become whoever he/she is regardless of their genetailia. I would be concerned that *that* will be one of the most enduring messages this child receives in all this hoopla.

And I say this as a mother of sons who have worn pink and purple and dresses and long hair in public well past preschool age. My 13 year old son has the most gorgeous honey blond straight long hair. He is regularly referred to as a girl when we are out and it is up to him whether or not he corrects people - which he does about 1/2 the time - usually when it is the most polite option. We've had lots of conversations about assumptions, why they are made, why the are so very rarely deliberately unkind or inconsiderate.

I am kind of surprised at some of the experiences here. My kids have never been told not to cry or that only girls are beautiful or that there is anything gender specific about the choices they make. All my kids play hockey and soccer and fence and knit and sew and cook,  and climb trees and play with dolls/love babies, and pretend play variations on the Little Princess and The Penderwicks and Star Wars.  Not one of those choices has ever been the topic of a confrontation regarding gender stereotypes. They all believe themselves to be smart, strong, beautiful, nuturing, brave, adventurous, kind, gentle, athletic and artistic - those traits are who they are and have nothing to do with gender. They have people in their lives who are straight, gay, trans and every shade in between. They understand that there is nothing wrong with being male or female or "inbetween" and that their genetalia doesn't define who they are or what/who they can love. Those are choices they make.

 

 

post #165 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by serenbat View Post

why even attach gender to it? why not say a non-gender nicety if you have to say something?

 

it's not just about "gender" any more- total stranger speak freely about parent choices/style and it is not gender related-that use to be rare-it isn't any more

 

I have two children and a 20 year difference between, I never got the parenting comments from stranger like I do now

 

off- but my DD looks super young for her age- she was babysitting and pushing the stroller (in her mid 20's) - she was assaulted verbally by a stranger for having a child "at such a young age"- person thought nothing of saying what they said-just walking in the development where she was sitting 

 

I have gotten comments like I never did before on my "parenting" in the grocery store, sitting in a dinner, etc 

 

I think in general people really are not nice to people they don't know

 

regarding gender- look at all the reports of gender related random "hate" crimes committed by strangers on gays and trans (due solely to how they "look")



Where in the world do you live?  Honestly I have never experienced anything like what you have described in this thread. The couple in the OP live in Toronto - which is probably one of the most gender accepting cities in the world (their Pride Week celebrations and parade are the largest in the world and are supported by all levels of government, city services including polics, our military etc marching in the parade).  I don't know that your experiences would correlate to theirs.  The US is a far more homophobic/cissexist society than Canada IME. That's not to say there isn't work to be done - but I don't know that it is very accurate to assume that this OPs family experiences similar discrimination as some in this thread presume.

 

post #166 of 224

This reminds me of the gender neutral stuff that was a big part of one of the waves of feminism: the one where the women got short haircuts, wore suits, and didn't breastfeed because that wasn't gender neutral enough.  Your choices were limited by the strict definition of what it took to be a feminist.  The realization that conforming to stifling guidelines to define yourself seems to have been made and I think that is probably why the new wave of feminism rejected the limits and has an anything goes attitude.  I think that restricting a child's choice of colors and toys in the name of neutrality is as repressive to the freedom to be who you want to be as that wave of feminism was.  It seems counterproductive to raising a child to value who they are and to make choices when you impose your idea of who they should be, what they should wear, and what they should play with on them.  I settled for letting my dd have total choice and teaching her that society considers her a female but that gender, like the toys and belongings we prefer, is a choice and so far it is working.  She was teased a little when attending a conservative christian daycare, but for the most part that is what kids are learning (except for the gender is a choice part). 

post #167 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chamomile Girl View Post

 

And at what point does someone's "right" to be nice (in a way I do not deem appropriate) trump my kid's right to not be pigeonholed because of their perceived gender?



People are going to label your kid no matter what's between the child's legs. I have two male children, and for years the oldest was "soooo smart" and the youngest was "soooo cute." Whatever. I just made sure the oldest knew he is not a hideous beast and the youngest knew he isn't a dunce. Nobody is scarred as far as I can tell. People are just trying to make conversation and be friendly. Just like when they ask my kids what grade they're in or how they're doing in school. Is is annoying? Sure. I'd like it if people could talk to children about something other than school. That doesn't mean that people are being inappropriate, insensitive, or phobic just because they can't imagine life without school.

 

Seems like lots of folks just want to assume the worst of people.

post #168 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2xy View Post





People are going to label your kid no matter what's between the child's legs. I have two male children, and for years the oldest was "soooo smart" and the youngest was "soooo cute." Whatever. I just made sure the oldest knew he is not a hideous beast and the youngest knew he isn't a dunce. Nobody is scarred as far as I can tell. People are just trying to make conversation and be friendly. Just like when they ask my kids what grade they're in or how they're doing in school. Is is annoying? Sure. I'd like it if people could talk to children about something other than school. That doesn't mean that people are being inappropriate, insensitive, or phobic just because they can't imagine life without school.

 

Seems like lots of folks just want to assume the worst of people.


Probably because some of us have seen the worst of people and want to protect our kids from that.

 

Here is what I got (from members of my family mostly...but not entirely) when I was a kid:

 

You can't pick that (heavy thing) up...you're a girl.

Let me help you (with something that I was perfectly fine with on my own).  Saying "no thank you" never stopped the "help".

Keep your opinions to yourself...this is a guy conversation.

You're not allowed to have an opinion about this...you're a girl (in regards to politics and social issues)

You can't be a (insert male-dominated profession here)...you're a girl. Marry a good man so you won't have to work.

Why do you want to go to college?  Can't you meet a nice boy in high school?

Are you going to college to get your MRS.?

Girls don't hold doors open for people

Girls are not welcome to help set up risers for school concerts.  Risers are too heavy for girls (I fought this one...infamously...and won).

Why don't you ever wear dresses?  Are you gay?  Why don't you wear makeup?  Are you gay? Why do you only wear comfortable shoes?  You a lesbian?

Don't you worry your pretty little head about it.

Are you getting fat?  If you get fat nobody will want you.

Don't disagree with me.  You're young and only a girl.  What can you possibly know?

You can't possibly do (insert practically anything here) on your own.

 

And on and on and on.

 

So yeah, I am REALLY sensitive to gender stereotypes.  Because I spent a great deal of my life fighting against ignorant people who felt my value to be nothing more than pretty, vacuous arm candy.  Anything beyond that and I was a challenge to their worldview.  And yes, my family are schmucks and I moved away as soon as I could tyvm.  But the point is that people like this are out there folks.  All of these people, for example are alive and thriving right at this very minute in the greater Detroit area.  You should go visit, Canada-paradise folks...have fun!  Oh, and I have also encountered similar stuff in Oklahoma and Nebraska (oh!  and Texas..can't forget Texas).  It is out there...

 

 

post #169 of 224
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chamomile Girl

So yeah, I am REALLY sensitive to gender stereotypes.  Because I spent a great deal of my life fighting against ignorant people who felt my value to be nothing more than pretty, vacuous arm candy.  Anything beyond that and I was a challenge to their worldview.  And yes, my family are schmucks and I moved away as soon as I could tyvm.  But the point is that people like this are out there folks.  All of these people, for example are alive and thriving right at this very minute in the greater Detroit area.  You should go visit, Canada-paradise folks...have fun!  Oh, and I have also encountered similar stuff in Oklahoma and Nebraska (oh!  and Texas..can't forget Texas).  It is out there...

 

 


I guess my point is that just because it's out there it doesn't have to be the dominent or even a prominent message for our kids. As parents we have an opportunity and the power to make huge differences in what our kids internalize, how they process stereotypes and what type of community they are raised in.  And FYI I went to high school in Florida - 3 different cities. I'm not blind to the issues in the US - and I admit we continue to choose to live in Canada because I have lived in the US and know that culture is not what I want for my kids. My point was that I just don't know that the kind of experiences written in this thread are necessarily transferable or applicable to the family in the original article. I'm not negating the struggles others face. My comment was more to the idea that the parents choices were making in light of the fact that it is possible here to mitigate many of the influences that have been used as examples in this thread.
 

 

post #170 of 224

This thread is getting very convoluted.

 

My point, personally, is that the choice to raise your child without discussing their genitalia with everyone who asks, at INFANCY is legitimate

 

When the argument against its legitimacy is a socialized binary or stark "categories" of gender (intersex is not a gender - gender is not biological), I get offended because my experience and that of my peers tells us that perpetuating the binary perpetuates abuse to those who fall outside of it.

 

Storm's parents (and some people here) refuse to perpetuate the binary with labels such as "boy" and "girl" and, well, I commend that wholeheartedly. It does not necessarily mean I think that other people are oppressive, though it is oppressive to make up one's own definitions and refuse to acknowlege the self-identities of others.

 

I'm not Christian, but it doesn't mean I deny others' self-identified Christianity. If you say you're Christian, I believe you, and I respect your identity, as you should respect mine.

 

We may choose to question the intentions of the parents, but the act of every-day people to raise a child outside of a "boy"/"girl" binary is legitimate. Your choices are legitimate, too.

 

Just because nobody near and dear to you is out about their gender-transcendence or gender-variance, doesn't mean it isn't your responsibility to educate yourself (as best you reasonably can) about oppressions when you stumble across them.

 

So some of us here are actively learning about new things, and some of us here are justifying our resistance to new things and new ways of accommodating people. Gender is hard to rethink because it's shaped our whole lives, but that is exactly why it's so important to reevaluate as often as possible. Honest, open-minded reevaluation is progress.

 

A quick google search on transgender, cisgender and genderqueer could get people started on actually learning about gender-variance if they don't feel they're exposed to it in their communities. It may apply, in the future, to someone who is very dear to you. Perhaps your child.


Edited by habitat - 5/27/11 at 6:26am
post #171 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by habitat View Post

When the argument against its legitimacy is a socialized binary or stark "categories" of gender (intersex is not a gender - gender is not biological), I get offended because my experience and that of my peers tells us that perpetuating the binary perpetuates abuse to those who fall outside of it.

I never said intersex is a gender. I specifically said it is a sex. And that gender has nothing to do with biology. In some ways I think we are actually saying similar things (albeit from different viewpoints with different ultimate goals).
Quote:
Originally Posted by habitat View Post

This thread is getting very convoluted.

 

My point, personally, is that the choice to raise your child without discussing their genitalia is legitimate.

I'm not sure why you keep using the word "legitimate"... I'm not sure anyone necessarily thinks it's an illegitimate choice. There are lots of legitimate choices out there that I don't agree with and I don't have to agree for them to still be legitimate. Bottom line for me, personally, is that I would not make the same choice Storm's parents did. I would much rather fight gender stereotypes by identifying the child's biological sex and letting them adhere (or not adhere) to whatever gender norms they felt fit. I don't think there's a point (beyond making a social/political statement) to hiding a child's sex and I do think it could have harmful effects as this child grows. But yes, it's still legitimate, and it's still their choice to make.

ETA: I am really enjoying this discussion, I do find everyone's opinions fascinating.
Edited by crunchy_mommy - 5/27/11 at 6:38am
post #172 of 224

nm - reconsidered  smile.gif

 

 

post #173 of 224



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chamomile Girl View Post




Probably because some of us have seen the worst of people and want to protect our kids from that.

 

Here is what I got (from members of my family mostly...but not entirely) when I was a kid:

 

You can't pick that (heavy thing) up...you're a girl.

Let me help you (with something that I was perfectly fine with on my own).  Saying "no thank you" never stopped the "help".

Keep your opinions to yourself...this is a guy conversation.

You're not allowed to have an opinion about this...you're a girl (in regards to politics and social issues)

You can't be a (insert male-dominated profession here)...you're a girl. Marry a good man so you won't have to work.

Why do you want to go to college?  Can't you meet a nice boy in high school?

Are you going to college to get your MRS.?

Girls don't hold doors open for people

Girls are not welcome to help set up risers for school concerts.  Risers are too heavy for girls (I fought this one...infamously...and won).

Why don't you ever wear dresses?  Are you gay?  Why don't you wear makeup?  Are you gay? Why do you only wear comfortable shoes?  You a lesbian?

Don't you worry your pretty little head about it.

Are you getting fat?  If you get fat nobody will want you.

Don't disagree with me.  You're young and only a girl.  What can you possibly know?

You can't possibly do (insert practically anything here) on your own.

 

And on and on and on.

 

 



You know, I honestly never got any of this and wasn't a girlie girl.   I'm not saying that to minimize your experience at all. I think it is interesting that you heard most of those comments from your family and that may be the difference between you and I, because my family wouldn't have ever said anything like that.  The point though is that it is possible that strangers are just trying to be kind, and don't necessarily realize that *you* have experienced so much stereotyping because many of us have not.  I definitely don't want to teach my kids that the world is so mean and nasty that a comment like "your child is beautiful" is typically said out of malice or ignorance.  And, I wouldn't expect to have many friendships if I automatically assumed those that commented on my kid in a seemingly positive way were being nasty.  If people want to say my boy is beautiful and my girl is strong, or vice versa, great.  I will take it as them trying to be kind to us.  And I certainly am not going to worry that my kids' are going to be harmed by the occassional random comment by a stranger that may stereotype.  I plan to be proactive enough in addressing gender stereotypes at home that a random comment shouldn't matter. 

 

post #174 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by APToddlerMama View Post



 



You know, I honestly never got any of this and wasn't a girlie girl.   I'm not saying that to minimize your experience at all. I think it is interesting that you heard most of those comments from your family and that may be the difference between you and I, because my family wouldn't have ever said anything like that.  The point though is that it is possible that strangers are just trying to be kind, and don't necessarily realize that *you* have experienced so much stereotyping because many of us have not.  I definitely don't want to teach my kids that the world is so mean and nasty that a comment like "your child is beautiful" is typically said out of malice or ignorance.  And, I wouldn't expect to have many friendships if I automatically assumed those that commented on my kid in a seemingly positive way were being nasty.  If people want to say my boy is beautiful and my girl is strong, or vice versa, great.  I will take it as them trying to be kind to us.  And I certainly am not going to worry that my kids' are going to be harmed by the occassional random comment by a stranger that may stereotype.  I plan to be proactive enough in addressing gender stereotypes at home that a random comment shouldn't matter. 

 


I agree with this.  And, my ds is almost NEVER told that he is "strong" - its happened a few times, but when it did it was ME saying it!   He's always told that he is beautiful though (and at 2.5 he is unmistakably a boy, since he loves red and blue, and everything trucks), teenage boys comment on how beautiful his eyes are, old people, young people, people of all different ethnic backgrounds, he's just a beautiful child, and people tell him that ALL the time.  He's also very smart, so he gets lots of those comments too once he opens his mouth. 

 

Just today we were at the beach, and he was crying about having to leave, and a sweet woman next to me said, "Tell him the water is closed, and no one can go in anymore" with a totally sympathetic look (for me, I'm sure, since I was getting a bit frustrated).  Nothing negative at all, and it worked! 

 

post #175 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by habitat View Post


 

Cool clip! I love learning about this stuff.




This especially rings true for me. I do get frustrated when people call seemingly new (to them) choices "experiments". I feel that it's an effort to legitimize an otherwise perfectly fine parenting choice that just makes you have to think differently than you are comfortable with. In reality, parents are making all kinds of important (albeit, more socially-palatable) choices for their kids. And really, not choosing your child's gender is something that will be over once they are able to articulate how they feel about it. It's a choice that will be made, and maybe many times over. winky.gif

 


 


I think that when we consider where we are on the spectrum, we have to go beyond what's culturally appropriate. Our every-day world is small. If I only heard people count up to 10 over and over again, the number 11 or 15 seem outlandish. Know what I mean? In our culture, we're just so used to confining ourselves and each other in terms of a hard-lined gender binary, but that's not the case everywhere in the world, and everywhere throughout history. When you open up to the idea that there's more to the spectrum than we're used to, and that the spectrum isn't linear, maybe allowing your child to choose their gender identity really no longer appears all that "extreme". It's not a pole of some finite line. In our culture, sure. But inherently? No.

 

I do agree, however, that pretty extreme, oppressive views of gender tend to be accepted without qualm, because they appear more frequently on our radar. People are more comfortable with sex and gender oppression than they are with sex and gender liberty. That's just the society we live in, unfortunately, but I don't intend to succumb to it. I intend to stand up against it.

 



That's amazing of your DH. I definitely feel that men and boys (and, therefore, all assumed male-bodied people)  tend to be deprived of the kind of nurturing and support that all children and people deserve, and that is an act of violence. As a feminist, I also strongly believe that people of all sexes/genders are effected by this as this cycle of violence is perpetuated, largely by cis men, who are often privileged in terms of power and under-nourished in terms of physical familial affection, understanding and love. Cis men need to use their privileges to speak up and act out against patriarchy and oppression, as opposed to taking their taught-aggressions out on those who have less power than they do, or else the cycle of violence will continue.

 

 

For the record:

 

I am not opposed, by any means, to raising children as "girls" or "boys", according to their female/male birth-genitalia IF we are ready to be open or accepting and unconditionally supportive of their child's potential queer/trans presentations or identities in the future. I respect the parents' choice in early childhood. Especially since it can be so hard to face question after question. I have many a radical friend who has chosen to do so, while still actively working against the status quo and gender binary, and having real, productive conversations about the challenges and oppressions that come with that binary. As of yet, I have not made a decision as to whether I will give my child(ren) the pronouns that their genitalia would imply, although I am leaning towards creating an affectionate, one-syllable nick-name/pronoun for my child and asking my family and community members to use it when refering to them.

 

Thank you! Loving your posts. The bolded = pretty much my philosophy on life, not just gender issues.

 

You know, I keep hearing people say how...

ridiculous this is --- why do you care? Ridiculous, why? Because it's virtually unheard of? Give it about a century and when it's commonplace, you won't find it ridiculous any more. Girls wearing pants and short hair used to be ridiculous, too.

this is going to mess the child up psychologically -- babies that young don't yet fully understand "gender", so how do you figure? Isn't that a happy, easy place to be? Lucky baby! Life is good and simple. The couple in question is going to let the child decide for itself, so by the time it's old enough to make a choice in the matter, the cat will be out of the bag (regarding "sex" and/or "gender"). We are imposing our psychological and sociological fears onto an innocent child who will do just fine with or without our approval on the matter. It won't be an issue unless people choose to make it one.
choosing not to reveal the sex is also making a choice -- and so is revealing the sex! so? at least their method potentially gives the child more freedom to become what it is in its truest nature without our interference. do you think a baby or toddler really cares if it's wearing pink or blue, how long the hair is, or if people fully grasp what is between their legs? isn't that all sort of irrelevant, anyway?

 

When I think of the world we live in and how many people are living with gender confusion, I know we can do better. We're still homophobic, but we have all sorts of in-between states we aren't even dealing with, either. Sometimes boys feel like boys and like girls. Sometimes girls feel like they should have been born boys. Sometimes (and this is not that infrequent at all) the sex of a person is ambiguous or all-inclusive. What gender are they? How do they get treated in high school? Do they get beat up for it? Which bathroom do they go in? There aren't simple answers for these because we won't let it be simple. We could, though, if only we were willing to make a few changes to how society views gender. And it all starts with how we raise our kids.

 

We used to hide some of these issues, we used to do surgery to "correct" this, we used to dress people up in bows and tell them how to be to fit in, and we have crushed people. We've ruined lives. If more of us took the approach of these parents or were even just more accepting of it, these problems would stop being so pervasive. Every time you choose for your child, you ARE making a choice. You can also choose not to choose, if you feel.

 

For me personally, I have an infant, a toddler, and a school-aged child. I've never kept their sexes a secret, and I like many other parents here have let the kids decide what they'd like to play with or what they'd like to dress like. They happen to have specific genitalia and assume gender roles to match. While it's early to say, I would have to guess just from being their mom and knowing them that they are straight. But, even though I don't think I have to make my child's gender a secret for a few years, that doesn't diminish the value to me of what these parents are doing. This child has no concept of what they are doing, and that's a good thing. This kid is not being punished or tortured or forced into NOT choosing a gender role. Preconceived notions get to fall away for a while and make room for true nature of the child to surface. I honestly don't see the harm in it at all. I think it's society that has the real problem and confusion over it. The child will remain happy and carefree about it all, if allowed.

 

In other words-- what separates me from these parents is rather than going totally ambiguous [giant questionmark], I'm going genderbending. I don't mind if you cross over. To my older children, my attitude is-- both of you have all the pink you want. Both of you have all the blue you want. Cross those lines, and then cross back over if you like. I want them to feel free to hit extremes if it feels right, and I think these parents are just avoiding either gender extreme altogether. I think we are both hoping to accomplish somewhat of the same thing, though. The virtue lies in the acceptance. Why can't we just accept each other for who we really are? Everyone is so worried about this child having a hard time in its life being accepted. In many ways, this gender neutral child will be more willingly welcomed than some of our children, with boys wearing pink or lipstick and hugging baby dolls. But, how many of you are willing to tell your little boys to stop having those freedoms just out of fear of persecution? We're taking a stand one way or another, aren't we?

 

Let people be whoever they are going to be as long as it isn't hurting anybody else. Willing gender ambiguity hurts no one and could only help. Parents not saying what is in between a child's legs while it is very young is not going to hurt any of us, and it's not going to hurt the child. No one is putting a gun to the child's head and saying it can never reveal its sex or gender. The larger problem here is how concerned we all are over what other people think of our gender roles, our own personal hang ups, and being unwilling to change those views in society through leading by example.

 

Nothing great ever happened by everyone just sticking with the program and doing as they were told. If we want the world to be a better place, sometimes radical changes have to take place. And remember, things we think of as normal now used to be radical once. We've got to have the vision to push through and progress together. One day we won't know what someone "is" just by looking at them, and that's okay.

post #176 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karenwith4 View Post




link won't open for me

 

I am not sure intrasexed applies to Storm and based on the articles I have read, I am not sure that this is the issue the parents are concerned about. My sense was it was more related to gender stereotypes and expectations rather than concerns about transgender issues.  
 

 


Basically, 1 in 100 children are not born as standard "male" or "female". That's a lot.

No, Storm is not intersex and appears to have specific genitalia, but the choice was made with the knowledge that it doesn't define him/her.

 

post #177 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post


I guess I don't get why you want your DS to be perceived as being a girl either.  I would think it would make more sense to, when something negative happens, stand up for him and tell the person saying "Boys don't cry" - "Yes, sometimes boys do cry, and that is perfectly fine with us."

 

 

I taught my ds to defend himself on something similar.  He used to carry a doll around everywhere, and people would either think he is a girl, or once they found out he was a boy, make some sort of comment like "boys shouldnt play with dolls" -  He would say, "well I'm a boy, AND I like dolls".   He does this now with purple, he says "Yes, boys CAN wear purple, see, I'm wearing purple shorts right now!"

 

 

ETA: 

 

How I'm raising ds - toys I choose are all gn - he does have some blocks (that he never plays with), puzzles, games, outdoor toys, dolls, stuffed animals, lots of books of all kinds, dress up stuff, art stuff, etc.   He has a couple wooden cars that belonged to his great grandpa, but more for display than playing with.   

 

If I choose his clothes, I choose gn stuff.  He has shirts/shorts from both the boys and girls dept.  I make 90% of his clothes now, he usually pics the fabric and or the pattern, and I've used both boys and girls patterns.  He wears mostly gn colors - orange, yellow, red, turquoise, bright green, brick red.  He LOVES purple so a lot are purple right now.  The decorations on them are based on his interests - he has a sea turtle, a shark, a bike,, a sailor outfit, a couple gardening theme, a whale,  rainbows,  watermelon, one with flowers (his hair is insane in that pic!), purple stripes, a giraffe...    My dad does travel around the world and brings him shirts back from different countries - most are blue or red because thats all they have, they usually don't even have "girl" options (pink), so even if he were a girl he would be brought the same things.    

He has a kilt he likes to wear, and his favorite swim suit is euro style purple velour shorts and a rash guard (white or orange, and I'm making a purple one)
 

His activites are gn too - swimming, story times, science (boys and girls in the class!), and gymnastics.  He will take dance in the fall.  He took ballet last summer and was the only boy (out of 12) but loved it.   He took a "little sports" class in the past, which I loved because the class included both boys and girls and the 'coach' treated them all the same. 

 

Doesn't matter what he is wearing, we ALWAYS get "girl" instead of "boy", from people of all ages.   I never bother to correct them because it doesn't seem to matter.  He only corrects people once in a while, but usually doesn't notice or mind.   It is a HUGE difference in peoples interaction with him once they find out he is a boy.   We often (at least once every single time we leave the house, literally) get "she has beautiful hair/eyes" or just plain "wow, she is beautiful".  And once he starts talking "she talks so well for being so little"  (he is really tiny for his age).   They find out he is a boy and don't know what to think "oh ummmm well he is a pretty boy" or "oh wow he will be great with the ladies"  (95% of the time I get one of those two responses), or my favorite adressed to me after he has said "actually, I'm a boy, but thank you",  -  "Is he really a boy?".  Um no, he just said that to confuse you, sorry but I'm not going to "prove" it to you, and why does it matter?  

Once its established that he is a boy, they say "he talks so well for a boy", or "how old are you?  wow you are big!", "you can jump high" (he likes to jump, when he is a "girl" people comment on how "she must love to dance", which turns to jumping when he is a boy - same action!).  Kids even treat him different.  They want him to play house if he is a "girl" or tag if he is a boy.   They help him more as a "girl" on playground equipment, react differently if he falls (he falls a lot!), etc.  

 

As far as how he acts:   he plays swords (with a stick, I don't buy toy weapons), wearing purple, carrying a baby doll on his back.   He reads a book about pirates, and then a ballerina one and then 10 all about animals.  He loves to sing and dance, and then play what he calls "rough and tumble".  He doesn't care if people think he is a boy, or a girl, and he plays with both boys and girls and willingly participates in whatever they happen to want to play.  He is also very smart and funny and articulate.  He is polite and knows how to have a conversation with an adult, kids, and even little ones!.  He is, an awesome kid.  I really hope that him being a "male" doesn't change how I raise him, I try not to let it matter as much as I possibly can, and I give him oppertunity to choose between activites, clothes, toys, etc, without bias as to gender specifications.  

 

By the way, friends we see often think people are crazy for thinking he is a girl all the time, they are surprised when I tell them this.  Maybe because I joined the mom's group online and they knew I had a boy before ever meeting in person, but I dunno.    To me, even with me trying to raise him gn, he does do some "boy" things (like he loves pretending he has a weapon - he is tv free, we don't allow toy weapons (even imaginary ones are not allowed in the house or to be pointed at people)... he saw a kid at the park playing guns and has been hooked ever sense, even with me trying to get him to stop!

 

The article - it specifically says they will only keep the baby's gender a secret as long as ALL of the kids are comfortable with it.  Because of that, I don't see a problem with it.  It is a little weird they decided to do an article about it, but maybe its because so many people asked them "why" and they just wanted to put it all out there so they would quit pestering.  I don't see what it matters, its their family and thats what they feel is best for their kids.

 

Levi: 

(he loved this dress, too bad it was a custom order and not for him!)

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Edited by leighi123 - 5/27/11 at 8:38pm
post #178 of 224

If anyone is interested, the CBC is doing a segment on children and gender this morning, Sat. May 28.  10:00 PST, CBC radio, program is called Day Six. I'm pretty sure you can get it on podcast as well.

post #179 of 224
O my goodness Leighi, your kid is too cute for words!
post #180 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottishmommy View Post

O my goodness Leighi, your kid is too cute for words!


Thank you!  smile.gif   I think so too!  

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