Welfare Moms - Should we be supporting moms so they can stay at home with their children? - Page 30

[serenbat]

not on topic but it's big now to have  at yard sales and at flea markets - people sell items (new) it's called stock pile (they even advertise on craig's list as a stock pile- sort of like extreme couponing but selling it)- what you can get free or nearly with a coupon and turn around and resell it higher but yet under the real cost without a coupons- people do buy things this way- some is personal care, lots of plug in smelly things and food 

[serenbat]

Quote:

This doesn't mean that the food pantry volunteers, or certainly the people who rely on the food pantry, aren't appreciative of donations.

It's not the volunteers - I get the impression they see people not using the items and know they are only being grabbed to be sold, not appreciated by the people you would think would appreciate it.

Frankly the stuff the do ask for on their list is high sodium, quick ready to eat stuff because they say that is what is in demand- this place gets real fresh veggies and fruits along with meats but the more junk like stuff is gone first.

[mamazee]

I just saw a TV documentary about kids in poverty, and surprisingly a lot of people who use food stamps don't have refrigerators (the documentary showed people living in a motel who got ice from the ice machine and put it in the sink to try to keep stuff cold), or ways to do much involved cooking (like they might have just a microwave). Also, a lot of people who use food stamps work, but only make minimum wage, and are exhausted at dinner time after being up on their feet all day, and do rely on ready-made stuff.

[serenbat]

I do know in my area we do not have any motels that allow it.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

Frankly the stuff the do ask for on their list is high sodium, quick ready to eat stuff because they say that is what is in demand- this place gets real fresh veggies and fruits along with meats but the more junk like stuff is gone first.

I know this is off topic - but it is a real issue.  Do you give the patrons food they will use or do you give them food you deem good for them? They are adults - and if the ultimate goal is being responsible for yourself, that includes food choice.  Sometimes there is the sweet spot where both conditions (healthy and well received) are met, but not always.

My mom volunteers at a breakfast program.  The guidelines specify only health foods are to be used.  The kids often will not eat the healthy foods (some they will, though).  Some kids really would prefer to go hungry or wait til lunch than eat bran flakes. Skipping breakfast does not help their academic performance.

[glassesgirlnj]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

It's not the volunteers - I get the impression they see people not using the items and know they are only being grabbed to be sold, not appreciated by the people you would think would appreciate it.

Frankly the stuff the do ask for on their list is high sodium, quick ready to eat stuff because they say that is what is in demand- this place gets real fresh veggies and fruits along with meats but the more junk like stuff is gone first.

Oh, I can identify with that!

When I was volunteering at the Catholic Worker House in Champaign, IL (hey look, it's my own experience, with a named nonprofit in a named town!), we were trying to revamp the meal plans to include more vegetarian food. Let's say that did NOT go over well. ;)

However, instead of grumbling about how "ungrateful", "entitled", etc etc, the clients were, we recognized this was a new style of eating for them, and in order to serve our clients better, we might need to make the change more gradually. (I only lived in Champaign for a year, so this was still going on when I left... not sure if they serve meat at that CWH now, or not.)

I also agree with the previous posters who said that reselling items you can't use is actually a smart strategy! Don't we suggest that to people on MDC's Frugality board all the time? Or is that different somehow?

[journeymom]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

I just heard of someone who was told when they dropped off a bag of items at a local pantry not to bother with certain item because they are not appreciated- they are just taken to be sold and to get cheaper stuff next time - it really does rub you the wrong way. 

When you see personal (and starting to be a lot in our case) more and more examples of use/abuse you tend to have little to no sympathy anymore. This is coming from the class the works and seeing it directly effects perspective. I perfectly well know that corporations are getting massive tax breaks - I also know you can't be turned away at the ER and that is far cheaper than paying for your own health insurance, you see it, it's counts.

If you change all the 'you's in your statement for 'I's, it will be more accurate.  I don't entirely share your perspective. 

I'll share my own anecdotes. Ages ago I read an essay from this journalist whose mom was single, and was a house cleaner in a very exclusive neighborhood at the coast of Massachusetts, where the wealthiest people had summer homes and came to "Summer".  Tradition was, at the end of the season when the wealthy home owners all went home they dropped off the remains of their cupboards at the food pantry in the next town over, where she grew up.  Well, okay that's nice, but these people left behind a lot of non-standard, useless stuff. Like jars of capers and cocktail onions and rose hip jam and boxes of risotto rice. These aren't helpful or useful for a mom trying to feed her kids.  The journalist, a woman, said while of course the people receiving these donations knew the wealthy donators didn't mean any harm, it still galled.  It did serve to illustrate at best a cluelessness, at worst an indifferent attitude that if you're poor you should be 100% grateful for whatever anyone can be bothered to give you. 

Anecdote number two, I participated in my church's service day at a women and children's homeless shelter.  The gal heading our group bought bags and bags of potatoes and, I don't know, maybe 10 cans of ham.  We cooked and served the food and these moms with their kids were very appreciative and thanked us sincerely.  The potatoes were all eaten, but most of the ham was uneaten.  Our group leader was shocked and baffled. Why in the world didn't these people eat up the ham? I talked to my husband about this later.  His family was frequently on the edge and they did receive church food aid, including canned hams like that.  He said he hates the sight of those cans now.  Everyone knew that ham was far inferior to the whole hams you see on an Easter dinner table. 
 

I've lost my train of thought here, sorry.  Shouldn't have coffee on an empty stomach. 

[serenbat]

Quote:

Do you give the patrons food they will use or do you give them food you deem good for them?

I'm under the impression they give what they get - they ask for certain items directly. The local food pantry that supplies them ONLY gives whole foods - they advertise that when they send their local appeal out, they are not suppling them with soda!

Quote:

I also agree with the previous posters who said that reselling items you can't use is actually a smart strategy!

My issue was two of the items in the bag came from me - one was bubble bath - and I suppose I should have just given it to the homeless shelter but they don't have tubs but it could have been used. I knew the person that was taking the other stuff  I gave, it saved me time dropping it off at the homeless shelter and I use to give these items to someone I did know appreciated them. They simply have dyes we do not use in them- they were not cheap and Christmas gifts.

I no longer give really to this pantry because of their drop off hours are so hard to meet. If I have things I try and give them to the homeless shelter - they have more need (in my area) and you get the sense they appreciate it a bit more. You have to meet a criteria to stay there and you have to follow rules vs anyone no questions asked can pick up at the church and I do know people resell and I would like to think they are used (needed) more- that's would make me feel better. I understand you can be poor and need to sell, I also know many churches in my area have "rummage" sales through out the year and stuff is dirt cheap and the local antique dealers are waiting in line to get in and MANY clearly do not need dime items but have no problem in turning around an item for $$$$$ bucks.

[serenbat]

Quote:

If you change all the 'you's in your statement for 'I's, it will be more accurate.  I don't entirely share your perspective. 

on well, it was my stuff and I did not do the dropping off- I do trust what my mother said! She got the same impression I did.

[journeymom]

Sorry if it seems like I'm nitpicking. You misunderstood what I said.  I'm not doubting you, I just don't agree. When you say, "It rubs you the wrong way", that isn't accurate.  No, it doesn't rub me the wrong way at all. If these people turn around and resell stuff they can't use, they are benefiting from the donation, right?  And ultimately that is what's supposed to matter. 

[serenbat]

Quote:

"It rubs you the wrong way"

I rubs my mother and I the wrong way- and my DH when I told him and two others that also know of it - I rubes ALL of us the wrong - is that better?

[serenbat]

I do not feel I want a profit from a donation - I want USE-, like in WOW, something nice a little treat, not what can I make off it........ next time I clearly will not give to this church.

[journeymom]

Absolutely!    Thanks for the clarity! 

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

I do not feel I want a profit from a donation - I want USE-, like in WOW, something nice a little treat, not what can I make off it........ next time I clearly will not give to this church.

Taken to an extreme, this would bug me.  In some ways I know it shouldn't - I shouldn't attach string to stuff I freely donate.  But yeah, someone going to a food bank, collecting all sorts of food they have no intention of using, and then turning around and selling them does bug me.

Scenario A - all good.

Person goes to food bank because they need food. Person gets a lot of food they need and some they know they will not use.  Persona sell or trades the small amount of unusable food.   

Scenario B.

Person A regularly goes to food bank (whether they strictly need to or not) to score high priced items then can then sell.

Scenario A - good.  Scenario B - not so good.

I do not think there is much of scenario B going on, and I think focusing on the rare ( statistically and from what I have seen) instances of fraud or profit making from poverty gives those on welfare an image problem they do not deserve -  and is a barrier to finding meaningful ways to help.  Some of how much fraud is going on might be regional, though, and I might be wearing pollyanna glasses….I  hope not, though.

Edited by kathymuggle - 1/31/13 at 9:49am

[glassesgirlnj]

Tradition was, at the end of the season when the wealthy home owners all went home they dropped off the remains of their cupboards at the food pantry in the next town over, where she grew up.  Well, okay that's nice, but these people left behind a lot of non-standard, useless stuff. Like jars of capers and cocktail onions and rose hip jam and boxes of risotto rice. These aren't helpful or useful for a mom trying to feed her kids.  The journalist, a woman, said while of course the people receiving these donations knew the wealthy donators didn't mean any harm, it still galled.  It did serve to illustrate at best a cluelessness, at worst an indifferent attitude that if you're poor you should be 100% grateful for whatever anyone can be bothered to give you. 

I see your point; but wouldn't it be at least as bad to donate nothing but store brand junk, also because "if you're poor you should be grateful"? With the added message that "you don't deserve special things"?

There should be a happy medium somewhere, I suppose.

That being said, anytime someone wants to give my family a jar of rose hip jam for free, please let me know!! ;)

[serenbat]

"I" feel in my case the church is also not happy and clearly knows what is going on and they didn't just say thank you, they made it clear- that to me is telling.

I once gave a young mother what I thought were nice gently used clothing - she informed me that is what her DD's SS was for - new clothing - "I" never tried again.

[captain optimism]

Originally Posted by glassesgirlnj 

I see your point; but wouldn't it be at least as bad to donate nothing but store brand junk, also because "if you're poor you should be grateful"? With the added message that "you don't deserve special things"?

There should be a happy medium somewhere, I suppose.

Well, we could just give money to families who don't have enough to buy food, and let them buy their own food, instead of humiliating them.

I've been following some of the reaction in the British press for their sudden need for food banks since the government cut welfare in austerity measures. They had no tradition of feeding needy people. Until WWII, lower-income and working class people were typically shorter than middle and upper class people. (And they actually HAVE social classes with those kinds of labels.) Now they're moving back in that direction. 

I'm not objecting to food bank donations--it's far less wasteful than throwing food away, and if it's local, it's environmentally friendly. I'm just saying, again, that we could have better governmental social welfare policies in place than we do. We could have public policies that prevent poverty a lot more effectively. 

[serenbat]

Quote:

 I might be wearing pollyanna glasses….I  hope not, though.

talk to someone who works directly is one way........but really talk to others, those who work in an ER, do medical billing, and I could tell you tons of what it was like when I staffed for a temp agency- there are many professions that you may not think of that know a lot about fraud/misuse, etc. 

[couldbebetter29]

MY step daughter was told a true story of how my parents had 6 children when they were growing up, ( my parents are now 62-64). Her reply shocked me " how did they survive on food stamps and welfare?" My step daughter is 10. my fiance and i dont recieve food stamps or assistance though her mother dose because she chooses to live on stamps and assistance and live in low income housing and chooses not to work with kids that are 17,14,10,and 9.
Is this really what we want to teach our children?
Also just a question and feel free to anwser, of there was no assistance and stamps available, would you choose to continue to stay at home or work ?

[serenbat]

Quote:

I'm not objecting to food bank donations--it's far less wasteful than throwing food away, and if it's local, it's environmentally friendly.

we do the homeless shelter because it is direct

We are not very thrilled with all the goes on with larger charities - my DH did the helping at his work - they packed a truck with donations that were brought it, the plant facility was used and the banner was so pretty they got in return for their helping- a pretty costly looks nice feel good banner - REALLY? A non-profit like this had another corporate donor spend money to make banners- lovely 

I know the power they can have to simply get money and buy what is need - the Red Cross is a very good example of this-IMO but some others are just not so good.