Not-quite-unschooling and speech therapy

[Faith]

I really would like the advice of other HSers on this. One of the main reasons I am HSing is because I want my DC to be treated as individuals, and allowed to mature at their own rate.

DS never gave me a thing to worry about and has always been very advanced. DD is the one I could worry about. She is almost three and is normal in every way, except verbally she is very far behind where DS was at her age. I looked up what 36 months old 'should' be saying yesterday, and she was doing the minimum for most of them. But all the charts were different and one made her look pretty off.

She says a lot of words, like- juice, eat, walk, and many times will say a word and then quit saying it. She puts two and sometimes three words together, but no long sentences. She says "Why?" a lot, but I almost think it is more of a game for her. Many of her words are rather unclear. She still prefers to say "Aye" instead of yes. Yesterday we were coming home and she pointed at our house and said "House! Mine!" and that is pretty typical for her. She leaves off the first letter of words a lot, and has a really hard time with three-syllabel words. One time we were at a park and DD saw a girl she wanted to play with (exactly her size/age) and DD ran up to her. DD smiled big and the girl said "Do you want to slide?" and DD said "Ehh!" and the girl walked away from her. That was only one time though.

Other than that, she listens to stories, and follows directions well. Everyone who knows her has no problems communicating with her, and DD is not fusterated at all about this. She dresses herself, goes potty, and is happy and social.

We had her hearing tested when she was one, and it came back 2/3 well, and 1/3 inconclusive, but the tester said she was just tired of the test, and she was fine. When I asked her doctor about it (about a year ago) her doctor basicly told me I was worrying over nothing. I think the doctor is right most of the time, expessially because DD likes learning new words, and she does show slower, steady improvement.

My real concern sometimes is that she has apraxia, because we also had an awful time teaching her to nurse, because she had suck-issues. (She was also a few weeks early.) And two people have mentioned to me that she reminds them of a child they know with hearing loss.: (So of course this makes me worry, and I will cover my mouth and whisper things to her, and 90% of the time, she will hear me anyway and do what I said.)

My DH thinks she is F I N E and does not want her to be pushed by some speech therapist who will fusterate her and make her do things ahead of her time just for the sake of doing them 'on schedule.' (We have looked into some methods they use and neither one of us could see DD enjoying it.) He thinks I am worrying for the sake of worrying. He also points out that she is a second child, and DS is very very talkative.

So I know all the thigns I *can* do- get her hearing re-tested, take her back to the doctor and insist on getting her therapy, ect... But what I want to know is, what if we just keep encouraging her on our own and just let her keep going as she is? Just like the unschooling train of thought, I can't see her 18 and still saying "House! Mine!" I am sure as she grows and matures on her own, she will get better *on her own* with just our help, right?

The real reason I am so worried about this right now, is I signed up for WIC and I have my first appointment tomorrow. Now not only am I going to refuse the finger pricks, expain to them that we don't vax and that we HS and are having a HB with a MW, I know DD will probably use her favorite word "Ehhh!!" for everything and they will think I am a neglectful nutcase for not having her in head start or something.

[mattemma04]

I would agree with your dh,but if you feel better having her tested again then ofcourse you should.

I was on WIC last year(Ohio),and vaccines are not an issue that even need be brought up.Atleast in this state it is just used as a form of ID,and I said,"We don't do those."
For the iron test you could just decline and say you prefer your ped to do medical tests.

They gave me a hard time over diet though because I said dd was not given cow milk,so they labeled her *high risk* so be ready for that if you don't give dairy

Sara

[Openskyheart]

Hi Faith,

I'm a Speech Pathologist, (retired - though I feel way too young for that label!), and I specialized in working with children your d's age.

First of all, if it makes you feel any better, my son (who is 2 years older than my dd), was very talkative, talked early, and spoke in paragraphs by 18 months.

My dd was very different, and at 3 was still unintelligible (i.e., other people couldn't understand what she was saying). Funny story: When my daughter was 3 1/2 I had to take her to a doctor's appointment of mine. This was a new doctor for me, and it was just a sick visit, so the doctor didn't know what I did for a living. She heard my daughter talk, and very gently said, "I think your daughter would benefit from receiving speech therapy." Imagine that I had to tell her that, in fact, I am a speech therapist and that I specialize in working with birth through 6 kids!

I did a very little bit of therapy with my daughter. Not much more than the average attentive parent would do with a child who was unintelligble, and she is now very talkative, and well spoken.

Aaaaanyway...The only thing that concerned me about the symptoms you listed above, is the lack of first consonant sounds. If she was deleting last consonant sounds, I would say "No biggee." Deletion of first consonant sounds *can* indicate a more difficult road ahead for speech development. This is not necessarily true for your daughter - just statistically true.

The fact that she is talking a lot, is not self-conscious about talking, and is learning new words is wonderful, and has me less concerned than if she were reluctant to talk, or would only talk to family members. Also, these very characteristics indicate that she is probably not apraxic, but of course there is no way I can diagnose that one way or the other online.

If you could list for me the specific sounds she is having difficulties with, and examples of pronunciations of words, I think I can give you a few fun suggestions to try. I used to do play therapy, especially with the little ones, and they didn't even know they were doing therapy! They just thought they were coming to visit me to play games and sing songs and stuff - like their own private circle time! LOL! So, I have a few fun tricks up my sleeve that most 3 year olds would not object to.

HTH!
Laura

[Marsupialmom]

Please get her hearing re-tested in a booth by a pedatric audiologist (ussually works with a pediactric ENT).

Also get her evaluated. Openskyheart can help but without hearing her she is still missing parts. If you get her evaluated maybe the two of you can go over what the therapist evaluated. You can get this done free by the state. IMO, if you have an evaluation you can make a true educated decision.

Speech is usually fun for kids with minor problems (Now deaf kids that can be another story) but in our 3 years of speech my daughter has always had fun. Even with the deaf children I saw they made it fun.

If she had problems with learning to suck it can be fine motor skills issue and a OT actually be a better choice.

A few things that can help with oral fine motor skills are in the bathtub or pool have her try to spit on the wall in a stream: How far, high, et. Watermelon spitting. Get straws and have races suck up a small square of paper move the pieces from one spot to a bowl. Or make a track and race across the table/floor. It takes small control puff and tongue movements.

For comfort good grammar is not always a sign of problems. My 3 year old does the House, mine when she is tired also. She has no speech issues.

As for hearing loss, she could have unilateral hearing loss or she can be like my girl that can hear the slightest (pardon expression) mouse fart but not hear my voice or fire alarm to save her life.

[boysrus]

Hi Faith.

As far as hearing. I ust took my kids to an audiologist. She has moved her office down to your town. I think she specializes in ped. She was very good with the kids. I can get you her number if you want. pm me.

Also, I am an unschooler. I have had my kids in occupational, physical and speech therapies. I have gone through private clinics, not the school. I have never felt it was incompatible with our homeschooling. They have always been very gentle, with a HUGE emphasis on game playing and having fun. As a matter of fact, I was feeling really stressed out bc my 7 yo's OT was wanting us to be doing writing practice with him. He hats writing and I just didn't want to push it. DH talked to her last week, and all she wants us to do is have him draw small circles and big circles, for just a few (like one or two!) minutes a day!!

If you decide this is soemthing to pursue, I would suggest scheduling a meeting with a speech pathologist, and telling her your concerns, and formulating a strategy that you are comfortable with Clear speech is so awesome, and speech therapy definitely can help!~

[Faith]

mattemma04,
My DC don't eat much dairy or drink any cows milk (just rice or soy milk) because of allergies. *sigh* Tomorrow is going to be a fun day.:



Openskyheart,
I know what you mean about what the doctor said to you. When DD was in her *forth* month of nursing hell, I would always get the "Have you called LLL?" and have to say that, in fact, I was a Leader! A lot of good it did me! But at least I knew enough to hang in there.

Thank you SO much for offering to help! I think this would be great, just things I can do at home with her, so DH doesn't think I am totally over reacting for taking her someplace.

Here are a lot of words she mispronounces:

help= hup (like up)

wait= wheat

daddy= da-eeee (just like daddy without the second d, although she used to say it right a long time ago)

please= peas

no= mo

then a lot of words she says fine, minus the first sound:

drink= ink
yes= ess
book= ook
jack= ack
nurse= urse
treat= eat
milk= ilk
juice= ooce
walk= alk
zip= ip
foot= oot

But, when she says 'oot' for foot and I tell her to say 'ffffff' she does say 'ffffff.' She just will not put the 'ffffff' and 'oot' together. : This is what really has me confused!

Something else she does is mouth sounds without making any noise. Like if we want her to say something complicated, she will just mouth it back to us. Like "I love you"- she will move her mouth for the "i love" then say 'ehh oooo' very softly. But she *can* say 'eye.' She just never says 'I,' if that makes sense.

She does have a lot of things she can say very well- here, no, mommy, baby, mine, bye, hey, go, 'kay, hot, guy, ball, puppy, house, out...

Anyway, for sounds- we went thru the alphabet and she was only really hung up on the sounds for d (she makes the sound for g), e, j (she makes the sound for g), l, r, v, w, and y. She said 'sssss' for Zzzzzz.
She can say all the letters themselves rather well, except for h, j, w (too long), and says 'weee' for Z.

I really appreciate you taking the time to do this! The only 'profesionial' thing I have done so far is- a lady at church who works with deaf children regularly, told me to extremely exagerate my lips and draw out sounds when I speak to her. So, using her example, I looked at DD and said "Jeeeeeeeee-sssssuuuuuussssss." and DD looked at me and said "Jesus!" but it has not worked much since.

Sorry for writting a book!



Marsupialmom,
Thank you for your suggestions. I will definitely try them!

I think if it goes on much longer, I will get her re-checked. But now, it is a 'thing' between DH and I, and I have to admit- he is the one who is always right.: What can I say? He just is more logical than I am, and I get caught up with my emotions, and he truely feels she is perfectly fine.

If it ever appeared she was getting stressed out by it, or she stopped improving, I would not hesitate to get her checked out no matter what DH thought.



boysrus.
Hi again! Maybe that is a sign she moved by me? If I decide to take DD somewhere, I will definitely get her name. She sounds really good. Thank you!

[Marsupialmom]

My dd has gone through phases of “laziness” for lack of better word. She for whatever reason did not want to apply to talking well. This is when I knew she could. I found that using a since of humor and acting like you are having a hard time understanding can help.

You do not have to be an ogre. But like with the missing “f” on foot. I would have gone do you mean ear and tickled the ear. Then moved to the belly. Then go “Oh, you did you mean ffffffffffffffffoooooootttt?” Slightly exaggerated but not pandering. Often times we would get “Yes, foot.” Other times we would not see the correction until later. I would not do this all the time because of frustrating the crap out of both of you.

“Up for cup” would surely get me standing on something and giggles out of my girl because I looked stupid. A little dance going so you want a c-c-c-c-c-cup. I have done these things to the point of both being on the floor laughing but SHE remembered them.

Some of the sounds she is missing are perfectly normal for her age. I do question dropping constantans.

[Openskyheart]

Faith,

I'm so sorry I haven't been able to get back to you. My computer went down over a week ago with multiple viruses. This is the first time I've been able to post here, though I've been able to "read" every once in a while.

I don't have time right now to respond to your post regarding your daughter's speech, but I wanted to let you know I'm not ignoring you and that I will respond at length when I have some more time.

Laura

[Jen123]

Faith ,
I truly wouldn't worry about it. She's got a whole family around to decipher and speak for her. We went thru the same thing with our last baby. She had her few key words and she could communicate her needs effectively.

She's six now and says things like "OH Did I mention I require hydration ?" me: "you want some water?" dd:" yes thank you that would be grand".


You could try sign language if you are truly concerned about a communication gap.

[CerridwenLorelei]

we had a very good speech

therapist
she didn't push a mainstream time table with ds and worked more to his pace
hth

[Openskyheart]

Faith,

I sent you a PM!

Laura

[Faith]

Openskyheart,

I got it!