From C-Section to Frenotomy

[MrsLBoogie]

My darling little guy is 3 weeks and 5 days old today, and needless to say our nursing journey, which started off wonderful, has spiraled out of control

Right after my C-Section, I was able to nurse my baby in recovery Fast forwarding to when my LO reached 2 weeks old and I had completely stop taking any form of pain medication I started noticing a sharp pain while nursing and the fact that my nipples would come out of my LO's mouth looking like new tubes of lipstick. Well, I continued to nurse until I absolutely couldn't take it anymore My husband and I started syringe feeding while I used soothies, thinking it was only temporary pain. Of course, the pain only continued to get worse, so that's when I decided to seek outside help. Well, one week, 2 La Leche League meetings, and a consult from IBCLC, it was determined that my little guy had a posterior tongue tie.

On yesterday, his tongue was cut. I tried nursing immediately at the doctor's office and of course the pain was still there. I tried off and on once I got home and again this morning, but it still hasn't gotten better. It seems that while I was on pain medications, I allowed my LO to latch and nurse incorrectly, thus he has managed to build up 3 weeks of incorrect "sucking" (I guess you can say I stumbled upon yet another way C-sections interfere with nursing).

At this point I have become so frustrated and depressed, I am at the point of stopping nursing all together (myself nor my husband can't take much more). We have resulted to supplementing with formula and feeding with bottles.
 

I am pumping. I haven't been able to increase my supply however, only maintain. It's hard taking care of a newborn and trying to pump at least every 2 hours, and trying to rest in between (lately sleep has been beating pumping )

I know that this is a long shot, but what I want to know is if anyone else out there has still had issues with latch even after a frenotomy. If so, what did you do to promote a good latch? Or, were you able to ever get a good latch?

[homemademom]

(((HUGS))) Oh my, this is so similar to our story. Frenotomy didn't produce results I'd hoped for. Suck was still wrong, lipstick nipple, excruciating pain, etc. etc.  The follow-up diagnosis was "bubble palate." From what I understand, the tongue is what shapes the palate in utero with all the moving around it does. With a tongue tied baby, especially posterior, their tongue can't lift to smooth out and round out the palate. So it stays high and arched (my ds's looked like someone had pushed their thumb up there and created this deep little thumbprint in his mouth).  Anyway, even when their tongue is mobile after clipping, the nipple gets lost up in the space of the palate and never properly compressed... it gets bent and basically, your baby might as well still be tongue tied.  They don't transfer milk well, so low supply continues to be an issue.

You can read our story here : http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1302928/now-diagnosed-with-bubble-palate-still-not-at-the-breast, and to hear about the outcome (which was finally positive!) --read to the end of the thread.

FWIW, my guy didn't have the frenotomy until he was 4 wks old. He took bottles the whole time (from about 1 1/2 weeks old). But he latched at 10ish weeks and appears to be weaning from the bottle and supplements altogether. Yesterday was our first day with zero supplements!  He's just over 15 weeks.

Edited by homemademom - 5/27/11 at 2:02pm

[Amommymous]

C-section to frenotomy is my story too.  One of the LCs I worked with suggested a nipple shield to allow my nipples to heal.  This saved me because I was absolutely not able to continue nursing.  This bought me some time to work through the latch issues while keeping my supply up.  I thought that the frenotomy was going to fix everything and was upset that it didn't. At about six weeks I sat down to nurse and for the first time thought this is nice.  I hope that you will be able to have that feeling too.  It took 4 months before I felt like she had a really great latch. It might have happened faster if I had always corrected a poor latch, but I could never get myself to unlatch an almost sleeping baby. Keep up the good work, rally your resources and hang in there – you are doing a great thing for your baby and yourself.

[MrsLBoogie]

Thanks ladies for all of the support. Unfortunately, I decided today to give up breastfeeding. It has been a week since my LO had his frenotomy and his latch/suckling hasn't shown improvement. It seems he isn't getting enough when nursing. As far as pumping goes, I've only managed to maintain what my little guy started off needing and of course he demands more now. I wish I could have persisted like you all, but the pain and stress has finally taken its toll. I wish the best to you all and I truly want you all to continue to be blessed with breastfeeding.

 

[gemasita]

Hugs mamma.  As I've been told over and over, feeding your baby is only one aspect of parenting.  Go easy on yourself...ENJOY your baby.

[homemademom]

Best of luck to you! Enjoy that snuggly baby. And remember, your baby can and will bond to you just fine over a bottle. It's not only the "delivery mechanism," but the touching, talking and loving gazes that happen while a baby eats (and all the rest of the time, too). I hope you can enjoy all of that stress-free from now on!

[ewe+lamb]

Hugs to you - you're a great mother for having come this far and you will go further, but I sort of wanted to give a little more explanation as to why this hasn't been a miracle healing as such, it may give you more peace of mind.

When a tt is snipped, especially posterior tts sometimes we are given the impression that the nursing difference will instantaneous!  For a few this is correct, but for many others, it's the wrong information, the tongue has spent a LONG time being restrained in its movement, the muscles are not used to this new freedom, so even if the tongue is clipped they can still continue with the same sucking movement, the palate in children who are born without tts is lower and flatter because of the uterine movement that they baby has continually done since conception - or thereabouts, your baby has not been priviledged to the movement and just because the tongue has been clipped it will not immediately lower the palate, that can take months of working on for some and not for others.  I do hope that this makes some sense to you.

[kameakai]

I just had my son's clipped today.  He is five weeks old.  I have nursed twice so far and I am still having the same issues (lipstick nipple on one side and crease in the middle on the other nipple).  I must admit I am a bit disappointed.  My family is reassuring me that the fix isn't going to be immediately.  However, I just want it to be a quick fix given all of the tears and frustration that I have had the past five weeks.  I just don't know how much longer I can wait.  I have been to two different lactation consultants and they both said the latch looks good.  I never had problems with a good latch with my first child!  I have been using the nipple shield for the past 3 days and maybe I will continue with it off and on until this is fixed.  I am wondering though, if my son has nipple confusion since I have given him the pacifier since the first week.  Any thoughts?

[BitzsMom]

My son had two frenectomies - one at 4 weeks, and a second at 6 weeks I guess because he had a posterior tongue tie. It is now five days later and I am not noticing a difference either - in fact, he seems to be chewing more now, and feeding for shorter periods of time (5-7 minutes max every 1.5-4 hours). Like you, Kameakai, I have been to several lactation consultants and three BFC and I'm getting the same response - pull his lower lip down. But this doesn't seem to work. He has never opened his mouth wide and now seems to be nipple feeding more than before the second release. I'm hoping that this will resolve itself soon. I am giving myself one more month to get it sorted out and then may consider pumping and bottling, but I do worry that his poor latch is now beginning to affect supply.

[homemademom]

Bitzsmom, keep it up if you can. My ds had his posterior tongue tie lasered at 4 weeks old, and he still couldn't nurse. I was so disappointed. Then, an LC diagnosed him with "bubble palate." TT babies often have high arched palates due to their tongues not moving around and rounding out and lowering the palate in utero.  

From there, we went to cranial-sacral therapy for 6 weeks following the tt treatment, to see if she could help mobilize his palate and get it to smooth out and drop down. We finished that around 11 1/2  weeks old and FINALLY he latched on without causing any pain.  It took a couple weeks for him to stop slipping off and biting down, which I attribute to those unused tongue/mouth muscles having to build up strength.  

Things continued to be MUCH better, but by 5 mths old, I knew there was still more frenulum and I could see that ds would tire and not be able to drain my breast completely. We were supplementing 4-6 ounces of formula a day.  At 6 mths of age, we had him re-clipped (the fibers of the frenulum were very far back and not visible, you could just feel them).  We had that done almost 2 weeks ago.  Now, he's nursing less frequently, but for longer periods, my breasts soften up after nursing, he's dropped the supplements and things are GREAT. 

Hang in there! It can take a while for the physical things to work themselves out, even after you've done everything you can do on your end.  I was so ready to be done with nursing, even though I nursed my other babies for two years each, but I'm really glad I hung in there! 

Just one bit of advice: Keep pumping so your supply doesn't diminish!  Bottlefeeding that pumped milk is a great idea!  Your baby is almost 7 weeks old. I bet in a month he'll be doing MUCH better. And look into Cranial-Sacral Therapy in your area. 

ETA: Yes, the small mouth opening is really common with this problem. I had a horrible time getting my ds to open his mouth. It must be some sort of compensation to do with the TT.  He's just fine now, after lots of practice.