What are your thoughts on "summer brain drain"? - Page 2

[Coral123]

At the elementary level both my kids did some work in math....probably averaged out to be an hour(sometimes more a week).  Of course they do reading on their own.  I felt the math work was very important for both of my kids...in part because they had a weak curriculum .

My junior high aged daughter is planning on doing some self directed work in science.  Her own goal is to get into a certain science track in high school, and she is hoping that some extra studying will get her there.

I used to think things like year round school(more actual school days) seemed like a great idea.  Our district has been tossing around the idea of a balanced calendar for some elementaries.  Balanced calendar means same number of days....except the breaks are shorter and spread out more through the year.  Who would want to take a three week break in February, when our temps could be hovering aroung 0 degrees?  A balanced calendar would have a huge impact on a lot of the activities we like to do in the summer.  I'm not sure the potential benefits of a balanced calendar outweigh the potential drawbacks.

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by whatsnextmom 


 In elementary, it's not such a problem but in the teen years, those on year round are at a real disadvantage. Those teens can't compete for job when they have a 3 week summer and another has 13 weeks and there aren't many year round positions available to teens that provide more than a couple hours a week. Year-round kids are ommitted from most internship opportunities and interest-based intensive study programs which tend to be about 6 weeks long and during school hours. We've known parents who have put their kids on independant study contracts for the first several weeks of high school so their kids CAN participate. I suppose the answer is to force all the school districts to sync their calendars to year round but still, it would take away from certain opportunites where you really need weeks of full days to really dig in and learn.

No easy answers.
 

Yes, that is a drawback, I agree. Most of the students who had jobs either returned to them during the 2-week breaks, as well as the longer 6-week summer break, or worked part-time throughout the school year for  a few hours every week. In high school, part of the 10th grade curriculum required every student to complete a work study/co-op and community services placements, so they could gain some experience in different settings. It seemed to work out fine for them. 

Originally Posted by HollyBearsMom 

The biggest argument is that it would cost working parents a lot more money to cover a 3 two-week vacations and 1 six-week summer break. Single parents have it even harder since a working class level parent might only get 2-3 weeks paid vacation a year with no partner to trade off with.

Another vaild point. The funny thing is that no one in the almost-year-round system that I described would ever consider moving to a North American-style long 10-week summer vacation. They really enjoyed the regular 10-week terms and their four vacation breaks per year. They took advantage of more frequent family time throughout the year, rather than cramming everything into one summer vacation period. Of course, they also think the North American standard of 2 vacation weeks per year is utter craziness. 

Originally Posted by Coral123 

.Who would want to take a three week break in February, when our temps could be hovering aroung 0 degrees?  

Well, for a start, people who love winter. Skating, skiing, snow-shoeing, hiking, snuggling up in a cabin in the woods around a fireplace, playing board games can be as much fun as baking on hot sand under a melanoma-inducing sun. It doesn't even have to be a traditional snowy winter to make it more attractive for some. A lot of people living in tropical climates find summer temperatures of 100 to 110 F to be as difficult to cope with than 0 degrees, and prefer to vacation during the more comfortable winter months. Heck, I slow down when it's 80 or 85F and have to motivate myself to do much. 

Then there are the people who work in the summer tourist/hospitality industry, farmers, fishers, and other seasonal workers who cannot vacation in July or August. They tend to take their breaks in January and February. Even most retailers find February to be their slow season - after the Christmas rush and January sales and before new spring lines are introduced. February makes sense for a lot of people. 

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by Cyllya 

That aside, I sort of look at "summer brain drain" as a test for the school. A person who truly understands something isn't going to forget because of taking a three-month break! It's one thing if the child needs a quick refresher to relearn the terminology and other little details, but if he's totally forgotten huge chunks of it, that means the school did not succeed in instilling an understanding of that topic in that child. We want the school to pass the test, not to stop taking it. Of course, if you're the parent of that child, that doesn't make you feel any better.

Well, I don't think that fairly considers the variation in working memory, long term memory, task learning, consolidation of skills, and learning strategies for many people. Some kids are going to be just "getting it" after a year of hard work when the summer break comes along. Other students are going to need regular exposure, more reinforcement and frequent practice to maintain their skills. Long, long breaks are going to interfere with their consolidation of skills and allow regression. There are a few personal stories in this thread that support that proposition.  

I'm not fond of the idea of prescribed homework over the summer. Personally, I would feel that it was an intrusion into holidays and family time. OTOH, I did a lot with my kids outside of school, they are very capable learners, and we never needed that kind of ongoing structured learning support over long breaks. The schools are looking at the other kids - the ones who would benefit from some ongoing structured support. I'd suggest that "summer school" should be given only to those kids who need it, but I suspect it wouldn't be successful. The kids would resent it even more ("But my friend Johnny doesn't have summer homework!") and parents might consider it something shameful.  

I suppose basically it's the same old homework debate that gets chewed over here every few weeks. Parents should make their own assessment of what their child needs and proceed accordingly. 

[karne]

Originally Posted by Cyllya 

That aside, I sort of look at "summer brain drain" as a test for the school. A person who truly understands something isn't going to forget because of taking a three-month break! It's one thing if the child needs a quick refresher to relearn the terminology and other little details, but if he's totally forgotten huge chunks of it, that means the school did not succeed in instilling an understanding of that topic in that child.

I don't think that this is always the case.  Three months (give or take) can be a long time for some kids, even if the school has done a wonderful job of teaching the material.  There is, of course, some review for kids who need it at the beginning of the year, but there really are some kids who benefit from more consistent exposure to certain skills practice.

In general, we view summer as a wonderful time to explore, relax, vacation as a family, do some volunteer work, etc.  We do mix in some skills practice because, frankly, it helps make the return to school be done with confidence, and it's not really a huge deal to do it during the odd quiet afternoon.

[Coral123]

Ollyoxenfree I hear what you are saying. My point of saying zero degrees is that those activities are much less pleasurable than they might be at say 20 degrees.  Our February last year was brutal. I'd say where I live though that people value their time off during the warmer months.  For families that don't have a lot of money, skiing is not something commonly done. 

During the summers here many people do things like outdoor swimming lessons,tennis lessons, nature camps, girl scout camps etc.  So kids would have much less time to do things like this, or you would have many kids competing to get into a limited amount of slots at nature camp.

One other consideration is that as a family, we like to do some travel/outdoor activities during the warmer months.  My husband and I both have jobs where  everyone can take vacation time at once.  If summer break was shorter, that means more people would be competing to take certain weeks off....so it very well could mean we might not be able to do some of those same things as a family.

If there was a debate between balanced calendar(with less summer break) and a longer school year(also less summer break)...I'd definitely choose the longer school year.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by Coral123 

If there was a debate between balanced calendar(with less summer break) and a longer school year(also less summer break)...I'd definitely choose the longer school year.

I think it really depends on what latitude one lives. We live where the winters are warm and the summers are hellishly hot. The norm in our city is about 7-8 week break in the summer, a 3 week break in the fall (when the temperature is lovely),  a long Christmas break, and a week or two for a spring break. It varies a little from district to district, but most kids are back in school the first week of August.

Because the entire city runs this way, it works fine. There are lots of options for the fall break from camps at the science center to programs run through the schools to Parks and Rec. and most of those programs take advantage of the fact that the kids CAN be outside without risking heat stroke. There is far more going on in our city during fall break than during the August.

(My kids attend one of the few schools that doesn't start until Sept, and there's really nothing to do here in August. So that's when our family takes vacation!)

We used to live in Canada, and the summer days were to be savored. They were long and beautiful and over all too soon. The schedule that makes sense here would be completely foolish there.

[SoCaliMommy]

No but i will be starting to make more of a effort in getting  my newly turned 5 yr old to start writing out his name. He does great tracing it out with a whiteboard marker on the sheet i laminated with his name on it.

[CarrieMF]

Who would want to take a three week break in February, when our temps could be hovering aroung 0 degrees?  

Those of use who get several days of -35F weather so we don't have to drive.  My elementary school kids usually have 2-3 WEEKS where they do not go outside at recess because it is too cold & often those weeks are 1-2 in a row. 

They get 8-9 weeks off for summer.

[whatsnextmom]

It's all relative to area. I live in a temperate climate.Our areas heating costs are minimal in the winter/fall/spring where our air conditioning costs are very high in the summer and early fall. Financially, it makes sense for schools to be closed in the summer because they don't have to do more than open and shut windows most of the year. My friend teaches in Alaska. They take hardly any breaks during the school year (only a day or two for Christmas, no Spring Break, no snow days no matter the weather, ect.) Instead, they have a very lengthy summer which is the only time certain areas can even fly out to travel and the only time to really play outside without snowsuits. It works for them.

[Tigerchild]

In my observation, it's more of a problem for kids who are struggling learners who also come from disadvantaged backgrounds than it is for kids who live in an enriched, stable, involved environment.

I think getting more involved with some of the homeless and/or at-risk families in our district has really opened my eyes to a lot of things.  Some of the english language learning kids in particular really lose a lot of stuff over the summer.  Which makes a lot of sense--if I took Spanish for a year and then just stopped with no practicing, I'd get rusty.  If I then had to continue to take math, science, reading, writing, ect. in Spanish, by the time I caught up I'd probably be at a deficit in the other subjects.

That being said, I think the solution should be to offer library checkouts/academic interest clubs (with transportation) over the summer to kids who really could use it or who wish to participate.  One size fits all things don't really work, since the kids who probably are at the most risk of serious retention problems also don't have parents or environments that are conducive to getting worksheets/bookreading done anyway, no matter how motivated the kids might be (and many ARE motivated and do worry about falling back behind, esp. if they've busted their butt during the school year).

Fat chance of that with all the budget cuts.  It makes me crazy/sad to think about it. 

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by Coral123 

Ollyoxenfree I hear what you are saying. My point of saying zero degrees is that those activities are much less pleasurable than they might be at say 20 degrees.  Our February last year was brutal. I'd say where I live though that people value their time off during the warmer months.  For families that don't have a lot of money, skiing is not something commonly done. 

During the summers here many people do things like outdoor swimming lessons,tennis lessons, nature camps, girl scout camps etc.  So kids would have much less time to do things like this, or you would have many kids competing to get into a limited amount of slots at nature camp.

One other consideration is that as a family, we like to do some travel/outdoor activities during the warmer months.  My husband and I both have jobs where  everyone can take vacation time at once.  If summer break was shorter, that means more people would be competing to take certain weeks off....so it very well could mean we might not be able to do some of those same things as a family.

If there was a debate between balanced calendar(with less summer break) and a longer school year(also less summer break)...I'd definitely choose the longer school year.

I'm glad you understand that I'm saying that spreading out vacation time evenly throughout the school year suits many, many people who have different interests, work and life constraints, and needs than your family and it can benefit a lot of children who struggle with summer brain drain issues  .   I hear you saying that your personal, individual preference is for the current system and I understand why that is. 

I'm not sure about some of the objections in pp. If a family only has 2 weeks vacation per year and there are 12 school vacation weeks per year, then that's a problem whether the vacation weeks are spread out or consolidated mostly into a single block.  A 6-week summer vacation period is still pretty generous and many parents find their children are bored and restless half-way through the summer anyway. 

It seems to me that offering vacation times throughout the year, rather than over a single period, provides a lot more choice to families and is more equitable for those families who can't or don't want to vacation in the summer. 

[Owen'nZoe]

Originally Posted by ollyoxenfree 

I'm not sure about some of the objections in pp. If a family only has 2 weeks vacation per year and there are 12 school vacation weeks per year, then that's a problem whether the vacation weeks are spread out or consolidated mostly into a single block.  A 6-week summer vacation period is still pretty generous and many parents find their children are bored and restless half-way through the summer anyway. 

It seems to me that offering vacation times throughout the year, rather than over a single period, provides a lot more choice to families and is more equitable for those families who can't or don't want to vacation in the summer. 

 We'd love more time off in the fall or spring, because those are better times to visit my husband's family overseas. However, around here at least, many families hire college students who are on break to nanny for the summer - it would be much more difficult to find child care if the breaks for younger kids didn't coincide with the breaks for older students. Also, I know several families who have kids in different schools, and can never travel over spring break, for example, because their kids' schools have different spring breaks. If different schools in an area all had different breaks, it could make it almost impossible to ever take a family trip.

Of course, I'm in a place where the summer is very short and very precious, too, so can't imagine having the kids sit inside in school during that time of year. And many of the schools here don't have A/C, so adding it to accomodate year-round schooling could be a significant expense!

[HollyBearsMom]

Originally Posted by ollyoxenfree 
I'm glad you understand that I'm saying that spreading out vacation time evenly throughout the school year suits many, many people who have different interests, work and life constraints, and needs than your family and it can benefit a lot of children who struggle with summer brain drain issues  .   I hear you saying that your personal, individual preference is for the current system and I understand why that is. 

I'm not sure about some of the objections in pp. If a family only has 2 weeks vacation per year and there are 12 school vacation weeks per year, then that's a problem whether the vacation weeks are spread out or consolidated mostly into a single block.  A 6-week summer vacation period is still pretty generous and many parents find their children are bored and restless half-way through the summer anyway. 

It seems to me that offering vacation times throughout the year, rather than over a single period, provides a lot more choice to families and is more equitable for those families who can't or don't want to vacation in the summer. 

The biggest complaint from the working/SP families at our school meetings is that right now there is plenty of availability for childcare in the summer months.  We are lousy with summer camps and other families make a living running them. We have tons of local colleges, many with ECE programs so summer nannies are easy to find and very cost efficient.  In our area it is much more affordable to book one place for 3 months than it is to use off season short term care. Now the argument could also be made that if ALL the schools changed the schedule than new businesses would rise up and the cost would go down due to supply and demand. But right now its just a couple of towns and private schools discussing.

[meemee]

Originally Posted by Tigerchild 

In my observation, it's more of a problem for kids who are struggling learners who also come from disadvantaged backgrounds than it is for kids who live in an enriched, stable, involved environment.

I think getting more involved with some of the homeless and/or at-risk families in our district has really opened my eyes to a lot of things.  Some of the english language learning kids in particular really lose a lot of stuff over the summer.  Which makes a lot of sense--if I took Spanish for a year and then just stopped with no practicing, I'd get rusty.  If I then had to continue to take math, science, reading, writing, ect. in Spanish, by the time I caught up I'd probably be at a deficit in the other subjects.

That being said, I think the solution should be to offer library checkouts/academic interest clubs (with transportation) over the summer to kids who really could use it or who wish to participate.  One size fits all things don't really work, since the kids who probably are at the most risk of serious retention problems also don't have parents or environments that are conducive to getting worksheets/bookreading done anyway, no matter how motivated the kids might be (and many ARE motivated and do worry about falling back behind, esp. if they've busted their butt during the school year).

Fat chance of that with all the budget cuts.  It makes me crazy/sad to think about it. 

i agree tigerchild. before budget cuts bussed in summer school really helped out the homeless and at risk children. esp. as you pointed out second language learners. we had a perfectly working solution that got taken away.  you definitely see the drop in performance esp in the school district which has the highest high risk population (in fact a new school district was created just for that area not too long ago - yet sadly when the budget cuts started they were the first to lose their library). the laid off library staff struggled to volunteer and collect used/free books for the kids to take home. 

we also had mobile library vans at certain locations that also was cancelled.

however for us dd lives for those months off.  
 

[madskye]

We're definitely going to have to keep reinforcing skills this summer.  DD is  in kindy this year and she's not reading at the level they would like her to be.  On the one hand, I'm not taking it to seriously because it is kindergarten but on the other, I don't want her to go into first grade and not be able to keep up and have it be a vicious cycle.  So, we'll be working on reading skills and math skills every day this summer.  I'm hoping to get through hooked on phonics K&1, so that she enters first grade with some confidence.  Same thing with math, I am just going to try to take 30 minutes a day and try to get her a bit ahead.  It would be nice to let it go completely, but the bright side is that at this age, she loves to learn so we'd probably end up "playing" school a lot anyway.

[MJB]

My oldest son is going into 3rd grade, and did not finish memorizing his addition facts during the school year, even though the rest of his group moved onto multiplication. Also, his handwriting and writing mechanics are way, way behind where they need to be. So we are requiring math and handwriting practice over the summer. My second is going into 1st and just to be fair, we are also having him do some academic enrichment. They are doing summer reading programs for the public library and school, but they like reading so it isn't an area of contention. 

[whatsnextmom]

"Count Down" is a great way to practice math facts in a fun way. Target used to sell it in the game department and it wa pretty cheap. I also reccomend "Handwriting without tears" for penmanship practice. We've used it at our house for various reasons and the kids always liked it.
 

Originally Posted by MJB 

My oldest son is going into 3rd grade, and did not finish memorizing his addition facts during the school year, even though the rest of his group moved onto multiplication. Also, his handwriting and writing mechanics are way, way behind where they need to be. So we are requiring math and handwriting practice over the summer. My second is going into 1st and just to be fair, we are also having him do some academic enrichment. They are doing summer reading programs for the public library and school, but they like reading so it isn't an area of contention. 

[Amys1st]

I see the idea of brain drain for some students. I talked to my daughter's teacher last year right before the start of the school year. She asked me what she alll summer and I gave a run down of playing with friends outside, riding her scooter, organizing games outside with all the kids in our neighborhood, going to the pool...just being a kid. She feels like I do, kids learn so much from playing, organizing etc.

As far as books, both my kids love reading and the older one is a book worm so that is not an issue. OTH, she has to work at her math facts. She did very well on her report card, but if she didnt spend a few minutes daily doing her math, that would have not been the case. So we will write out about 5-10 math problems a few times a week and she has all day to do them. Just to keep her up to date. Just like when I dont do my workouts, its very noticable. but that is about it other than trips to musuems etc that is enrichment to science etc.

[MJB]

Originally Posted by whatsnextmom 

"Count Down" is a great way to practice math facts in a fun way. Target used to sell it in the game department and it wa pretty cheap. I also reccomend "Handwriting without tears" for penmanship practice. We've used it at our house for various reasons and the kids always liked it.
 

He used HWT in 1st grade and I think that's actually where a lot of his bad habits came from. It definitely did not work for him. We're using Zaner-Bloser now with much better results. 

I did find this website with timed addition tests if anyone else is working on math facts: http://www.playkidsgames.com/games/mathfact/mathFact.htm

[Kerrie]

We do not get mandatory summer work but I have my kids do one workbook all summer - Summer Bridge Activities and read.  They spend about 30-40 minutes 5 x/week for about 3/4 of the summer working on it.  It still allows plenty of time for play and such.  They also participate in our library's summer reading program.  It's not a great program but it does get them reading a bit more.