Does anyone know how to 'skip HS' and go straight to college? - Page 2

[AllyRae]

[quote]Public high school time is split up with the majority of that time being filled with socially inappropriate behavior and social pressures that can hinder any real learning or advancement. Between that and the non stop NCLB act testing, the pressures are perverse. And if anything, the current system can cause a formerly excited learner to cave in and despise education. Our local HS is huge and the bigger these places are, the more pronounced the nonsense seems to be.[/quote]

Wait a minute...I'm confused.  You think that the pressures of high school testing and behaviors is high but the pressures of a 9th grader taking all college classes is not?  I think you better think again.

-I remember college.  There was a lot of academic pressure.  There was a lot of inappropriate behavior.  There was a lot of social pressure.  Add to it, the pressure to PAY for it. 

-Then there is the fact that you have a 13/14 year old in classes with 18-21 year olds...no friends, no same age peers, etc.

-College classes are not easy.  There's a reason you need to be proficient at high school level materials to be successful in college.  Unless your child is extremely advanced, the academic pressure alone might be enough to squash her love of learning.  I have heard of high school juniors and seniors taking a couple of college courses.  I have never ever heard of a high school freshman, short of maybe the profoundly gifted children, skip high school all together and start college full time at the age of 13.

I think I'd be looking into high school programs that would be a better fit for your child.  The stakes are much higher in college and most young teens are just not emotionally, cognitively, and socially mature enough to be able to sustain that long term.

[whatsnextmom]

Originally Posted by AllyRae 

I have never ever heard of a high school freshman, short of maybe the profoundly gifted children, skip high school all together and start college full time at the age of 13
 

We know 2 kids personally who were 12 and 15 when they started college (we know several others that were 15/16 but they went through the middle college program.) Like you said, those two were profoundly gifted and even then, they didn't "skip" high school, they completed the high school curriculum in the middle school years. The OP hasn't come back to give more information on whether her child has completed the high school curriculum or not so it's sort of hard to say what her child's situation really is.

[tillymonster]

I got a GED and a diploma. Once I hit 10th grade I was soooooo done. My mom found an independent study high school for me that was a few hours a day and a very small group of kids. I loved it. Everyone I know of course considers this the "flunky" way out but I graduated early after passing the GED. They seem to forget that part. And guess what? Made no difference in the scheme of things. College wasn't for me at that point. Mostly because of the outrageous cost. My parents were no help and I didn't feel that going into the debt was worth it.

Once I worked for a few years and got away from school I enrolled in some community college classes but sadly, I never finished. I however consider myself pretty successful. Worked 10+ years now as a web developer who is self-taught. I even got to work with Apple! Amazing for a gal who didn't even go to "real" high school more then one year eh?

There are options. My lil sis went to an amazing "magnet" school which specializes in technology. She went on to earn an AS in business applications and is making big dollars! But yep, she owes thousands in student loans! Make sure to check scores for your public school, it may be better then you think. I know many who loved high school and still have friends from their year,'I sadly don't have that, and that I do regret.

Hope this helps with your decision.

[imagine21]

Originally Posted by Debnicolai 

We strongly believe that public high school is fundamentally useless. 

Who is "we?"  Is "we" the parents of the student or you and the student? I must ask what your child thinks about high school.  I was a ninth grade teacher for 15 years and in charge of Freshman orientation programs for a relatively large district of 5 comprehensive, five small necessary and two alternative high schools.  I have counseled dozens of families about the transition from an excellent K-8 private school (that my DD attended) to public high schools.  Perhaps the most important thing that I learned from the experiences is that 14 year olds often have strong opinions (although not always voiced) about the environments in which they will be academically successful and socially comfortable.  My suggestion is to let your child visit as many high schools (public and private) as s/he can (most have shadowing programs) and you will be able to tell a great deal when you pick him/her up from each school by looking at his/her face and listening.  

Going to college early, although a great idea for enrichment does have its drawbacks.  Many of the most important experiences that a college bound 18 year old can have is the process of learning how to live on ones own, in a dorm, with a group of other 18 year olds learning the same life skills at the same time.  The friendships forged during this period can be life long and very fulfilling.  A 14 year old is woefully out of place in this environment, as is a 16 yo college junior.

College is not only about one's academic ability.  It is a complex "rite of passage."  No matter how academically advanced a 14 yo student is, the next three to four years of their life is a period of massive personal growth and exploration.   
 

[APToddlerMama]

Yeah to all of this...especially the highlighted.  I know two people who started college courses early...one was a 16 year old in my dorm as a freshman, and the other was 16 and just in some classes.  Neither had *near* the emotional or social maturity to have any business being in a college setting.  I think it was extremely hard on both of them emotionally and socially.  I would look into homeschooling or a high school program that met your child's needs.  I don't think the things you're looking for are going to be found at this age in a college setting.    
 

Originally Posted by AllyRae 

[quote]Public high school time is split up with the majority of that time being filled with socially inappropriate behavior and social pressures that can hinder any real learning or advancement. Between that and the non stop NCLB act testing, the pressures are perverse. And if anything, the current system can cause a formerly excited learner to cave in and despise education. Our local HS is huge and the bigger these places are, the more pronounced the nonsense seems to be.[/quote]

Wait a minute...I'm confused.  You think that the pressures of high school testing and behaviors is high but the pressures of a 9th grader taking all college classes is not?  I think you better think again.

-I remember college.  There was a lot of academic pressure.  There was a lot of inappropriate behavior.  There was a lot of social pressure.  Add to it, the pressure to PAY for it. 

-Then there is the fact that you have a 13/14 year old in classes with 18-21 year olds...no friends, no same age peers, etc.

-College classes are not easy.  There's a reason you need to be proficient at high school level materials to be successful in college.  Unless your child is extremely advanced, the academic pressure alone might be enough to squash her love of learning.  I have heard of high school juniors and seniors taking a couple of college courses.  I have never ever heard of a high school freshman, short of maybe the profoundly gifted children, skip high school all together and start college full time at the age of 13.

I think I'd be looking into high school programs that would be a better fit for your child.  The stakes are much higher in college and most young teens are just not emotionally, cognitively, and socially mature enough to be able to sustain that long term.

[ChristaN]

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

Yeah to all of this...especially the highlighted.  I know two people who started college courses early...one was a 16 year old in my dorm as a freshman, and the other was 16 and just in some classes.  Neither had *near* the emotional or social maturity to have any business being in a college setting.  I think it was extremely hard on both of them emotionally and socially.  I would look into homeschooling or a high school program that met your child's needs.  I don't think the things you're looking for are going to be found at this age in a college setting.    
 

While I agree that I'd look more into what you're considering, OP, and reconsider that HS is useless across the board, I would hate to see this discussion turn into an arguement that all young college students are socially inept or immature.  One of the issues that should be seriously considered when skipping a grade (or more) is the social aspect and how the child fits with older kids. 

Yes, I too have seen gifted kids who were academically needing acceleration but for whom skipping grades was probably not the best way to make that happen b/c they didn't fit socially once skipped.  I've also seen some "old soul" types of younger kids who did better socially post skipping.  I went to high school with one of them and I believe that my 12 y/o, who is starting HS in the fall, is one.  Same age peers have never been good peers/friends for her b/c she is emotionally an "old soul" for want of a better way to put it.  Older kids/teens are the ones with whom she's had real rapport and they have accepted her as a peer.  She's fit tremendously better since being accelerated and I had numerous teachers in her middle school tell me that moving her ahead was a good choice b/c she is "mature." (nothing illicit ) 

We are, of course, not looking @ her being in college at 14, but 16 going on 17. 
 

[member234098]

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Edited by member234098 - 6/3/12 at 2:36pm

[heatherdeg]

There must be a way because UConn just accepted a 13yo Bronx girl to start as a freshman in the fall.  She was homeschooled, but all the more clear that there must be a way without having to navigate the credits/coursework of the public schools.

[NiteNicole]

I don't know what state you're in (assuming you're in the US) but LOTS of states have math/sci and humanities/arts boarding schools now.  I went to one and it was wonderful.  At the time, they just took jrs and srs but they've opened up to 10th graders too, now.  I know in most other states, they have all four years of high school.  Skipping sr year might have been possible, but I enjoyed it so much I didn't want to.  College classes taken in the summer count towards your high school credits so you can double dip a bit.  I was OK in regular high school, just kind of...not every engaged academically.  It was amazing to be around people who didn't take up 40 minutes of my Brit Lit class asking, "But why do we have to know this?"

Most of these schools provide a university type environment and experience for high school aged kids.  You pick a focus, you choose your classes based on interest, your classes are MWF/TTh.  You have a LOT more responsibility and a lot more is expected. Most classes are AP.  It certainly made testing out of those entry-level college classes a breeze!

I took a few college courses in the summers and while I'm pretty social and get along with most people most of the time and have never had a problem making friends, I was clearly the odd girl out.  No one was mean to me but I was a little lonely.  I also found that a lot of my instructors did NOT like having a high school aged kid in their classes.  I heard, "if you're so smart, you figure it out" more than once when I asked questions. 

[meemee]

Originally Posted by heatherdeg 

There must be a way because UConn just accepted a 13yo Bronx girl to start as a freshman in the fall.  She was homeschooled, but all the more clear that there must be a way without having to navigate the credits/coursework of the public schools.

oh yes there is always a way. as long as you are willing to jump thru the hoops.

a 13 year old had to take a couple of classes to prove herself and now she has been admitted to Oregon State this fall still at 13 as a freshman. and yes she is profoundly gifted. she scored above and beyond her classmates in the classes she took last semester. 
 

so as others have pointed out - if your child is outstanding then yes you are allowed to start univ. 

[member234098]

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Edited by member234098 - 6/3/12 at 2:35pm

[heatherdeg]

Originally Posted by meemee 

oh yes there is always a way. as long as you are willing to jump thru the hoops.

a 13 year old had to take a couple of classes to prove herself and now she has been admitted to Oregon State this fall still at 13 as a freshman. and yes she is profoundly gifted. she scored above and beyond her classmates in the classes she took last semester. 
 

so as others have pointed out - if your child is outstanding then yes you are allowed to start univ. 

I don't think your child has to be profoundly gifted to get in.  I mean, certainly they need to meet the prerequisites, but my point was that it wasn't necessary to have a regularly earned diploma to get there before 18yo.  Homeschooled kids finish high school and start college at 16 and 17 on a relatively regular basis.

Originally Posted by miriam 

The CSU near me has at least 50 sections of remedial math and English classes every semester for underclassmen.  

Why are these college students taking remedial classes in the most basic of classes if they were admitted to the university?  Why were they admitted?  

What were they doing in high school that makes them so low achievers?

If college classes are so challenging, why the remedial classes and why are they so full?  What did they do or learn in high school?

Every state has a different set of standards in terms of what's acceptable.  In college, they all have to be at the same level and if they're not--they go into remedial to get to that level.  They may NOT have been low achievers in high school--just that their school's (or state's) standards weren't as high as the standards of the college.   And really, I don't think anyone (including the teacher's unions) disputes that the current system is not exactly working well for the majority.

The colleges may have seen some other talent or achievement in those students that was worth having them admitted--knowing they could catch them up in reading and math.  It would be easier to have them spend a year in remedial courses and turn out a well-rounded student with exceptional skills in something other than reading or math than to just reject scores of kids because of something that can be "fixed".

FWIW, corporate America has a panel that attempted to work with public education for similar reasons: they were forced to "teach" the workforce things that should've been learned in school.  I was a teacher during that time (it wasn't long ago) and while the media caught what looked like cooperation and willingness to take feedback and work with it, that wasn't exactly the sentiment among the majority of the ranks--who felt that "those people knew nothing about teaching/didn't understand".  That was pretty much how they felt about anyone that wasn't a teacher--and if it was a teacher, they didn't teach in this kind of district or at that age level or in that subject area or they might have been too new to teaching or teaching too long... ridiculous.  Obviously not ALL teachers feel/felt this way; but the majority that I worked with (in two districts--one very affluent, the other, notsomuch) and know (from multiple districts) are in that bucket. 

[whatsnextmom]

The OP was talking of skipping high school and so it can be assumed that she's talking about a 13/14-year-old who has not completed the high school curriculum. The child this poster was referring to was 13. That's quite different from a 16 or 17-year-old who has finished high school early (and it's not that uncommon with public schoolers either.) A 13-year-old would need to be quite exceptional to move straight into the university and I've yet to hear of a non PG child doing that.

Originally Posted by heatherdeg 

I don't think your child has to be profoundly gifted to get in.  I mean, certainly they need to meet the prerequisites, but my point was that it wasn't necessary to have a regularly earned diploma to get there before 18yo.  Homeschooled kids finish high school and start college at 16 and 17 on a relatively regular basis.

[AllyRae]

I was 17 in college...most people with early birthdays will be, I'd imagine.  I never skipped any grades...I just graduated high school at 17 and started college before my 18th birthday simply because I had a September birthday.  That's a whole heck of a lot different than having a 14 year old in college....  

Originally Posted by ChristaN 

While I agree that I'd look more into what you're considering, OP, and reconsider that HS is useless across the board, I would hate to see this discussion turn into an arguement that all young college students are socially inept or immature.  One of the issues that should be seriously considered when skipping a grade (or more) is the social aspect and how the child fits with older kids. 

Yes, I too have seen gifted kids who were academically needing acceleration but for whom skipping grades was probably not the best way to make that happen b/c they didn't fit socially once skipped.  I've also seen some "old soul" types of younger kids who did better socially post skipping.  I went to high school with one of them and I believe that my 12 y/o, who is starting HS in the fall, is one.  Same age peers have never been good peers/friends for her b/c she is emotionally an "old soul" for want of a better way to put it.  Older kids/teens are the ones with whom she's had real rapport and they have accepted her as a peer.  She's fit tremendously better since being accelerated and I had numerous teachers in her middle school tell me that moving her ahead was a good choice b/c she is "mature." (nothing illicit ) 

We are, of course, not looking @ her being in college at 14, but 16 going on 17. 
 

[ChristaN]

That's the same spot I was in with a Sept bd.  I started at 17 and turned 18 in Sept.  My dd is a year younger.  She, too, has a Sept bd and she also skipped a grade so she will be starting college at 16 and turning 17 her freshman year.  And I agree, it is very different than having a 14 y/o start college full time.  However, there are 14 y/os for whom that is an okay or even good decision.  We'd just need to know more about the OP's situation to know if that is the case for her dc.

Originally Posted by AllyRae 

I was 17 in college...most people with early birthdays will be, I'd imagine.  I never skipped any grades...I just graduated high school at 17 and started college before my 18th birthday simply because I had a September birthday.  That's a whole heck of a lot different than having a 14 year old in college....  

[Delilah83]

Originally Posted by miriam 

The CSU near me has at least 50 sections of remedial math and English classes every semester for underclassmen.  

Why are these college students taking remedial classes in the most basic of classes if they were admitted to the university?  Why were they admitted?  

What were they doing in high school that makes them so low achievers?

If college classes are so challenging, why the remedial classes and why are they so full?  What did they do or learn in high school?

Remedial could be a very relative term in college, remedial math could be calculus or pre-calculus for hard science and math types. Remedial English could similarly be catching kids up on things like citation, literary analysis, etc. Unfortunately NCLB doesn't always mesh well with college preparedness
 

[meemee]

Originally Posted by Delilah83 

Remedial could be a very relative term in college, remedial math could be calculus or pre-calculus for hard science and math types. Remedial English could similarly be catching kids up on things like citation, literary analysis, etc. Unfortunately NCLB doesn't always mesh well with college preparedness

Remedial in the california systems means starting with second grade math. i have tutored in remedial math and its mostly for returning students after a break in math. at least here i see remedial students are mostly returning students. what you are talking about in the UC and CSU systems are prereqs. here.  at least in the city where i am that is true. 

considering that one doesnt have to be sufficient in their subjects in their grades shows up in college. i have helped correct some essays and seriously i have been shocked at the result even after visiting the writing help lab. 

[whatsnextmom]

Originally Posted by miriam 

The CSU near me has at least 50 sections of remedial math and English classes every semester for underclassmen.  

Why are these college students taking remedial classes in the most basic of classes if they were admitted to the university?  Why were they admitted?  

What were they doing in high school that makes them so low achievers?

If college classes are so challenging, why the remedial classes and why are they so full?  What did they do or learn in high school?

There could be several reasons. Like the PP, returning students could be part of it. I didn't take any remedial classes in college but if I had to go back today, you bet I'd be sitting in some math classes. You have to allow for students to have weaknesses. I know some brilliant scientist whose writing skills are terrible. I know phenomenal writers who's math is weak. A kid can have all "A's" and major accomplishments but perhaps took lower level maths or never took the particular science he needs, ect. His or her strengths can still be attractive to a university and they can still grow into successful members of society. State universities need to consider the schools feeding into them as well. Do they never accept a child from a weak high school.... even if they can see that the child could really soar with quality education? Kids shouldn't be penalized because they were stuck with an over-crowded, under-funded school. If they did the very best they could do in the situation they came from, they deserve a shot.

50 classes sounds like a lot but consider that your average state college offers thousands of classes. 50 is really a blip.

I have to say though, I would not want to send my young teenager to the university to take high school classes in place of high school. Like I mentioned before, our area has middle college through the communty college but they are taking college level class for high school credit. I would not send my child to college in hopes that they'd get high school level instruction.

[member234098]

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Edited by member234098 - 6/3/12 at 2:42pm

[lindberg99]

Originally Posted by Debnicolai 

We have heard of situations when a student can skip HS altogether and replace it with a pre college program, Middle College, or 'other'...

Does anyone have any information or experience in this area? What works, what does not, what options exist??? Any info is very much appreciated.

Deb

It doesn't sound to me like she is thinking of packing her son off to college and live in the dorms when he is 14. I think maybe she means something more like an alternative HS program, like middle college, which I have never heard of but sounds like some type of HS/college hybrid? http://mmc.geneseeisd.org/what%20is%20an%20Early%20college.htm