Originally Posted by Liquesce
What are they?
I personally don't think morals need to be universal to be considered either legitimate or effective as a concept, so I'm not trying to be all argumentatively, "prove it." I'm just not really coming up with any sweeping universal moral standard that doesn't have some pretty significant caveats.
Well, I think that freedom from torture, execution without trial, discrimination, genocide, basic crimes which compromise bodily intregrity, etc. are all things in which we, in modern times, place high moral value. As I stated before, these basic moral principles are not always observed, but I think society as a whole finds a breach of these basic human rights morally repugnant. Often, however, we are repulsed in retrospect. How could this have happened, we ask ourselves?
Now that I think about, especially in terms of torture, I think that we have been led or allowed to think that sometimes it is okay to do certain things based on some shakey justification that these things benefit the whole. I think this is our own fault and that we should take a hard look within ourselves to understand why we think/thought that hurting another human being was somehow justified. While I think that there are a lot of amoral people out there (for whatever reason), I really do think that the average human being recoils from the mistreatment of others. I think that it is almost reflexive. Maybe because we have a certain amount of empathy?
I think what I was trying to get at in my first post here is that I find it difficult to blame a god or G-d for injustice when we have such a hard time as humans evaluating and correcting our own failures. I think that blaming a god or G-d is a huge cop out. I think it is lazy thinking. Regarding stuff like natural disasters: again, I think that the physical earth is doing what it does and has done since the beginning, and to blame a god is to not think very far beyond our gut reaction to the event. I can't take the view that people are being punished or whatever or that G-d turned his head when say, a river flooded a town. The river would have flooded had there been a town there or not. The physical earth is in constant flux and sometimes we happen to be in the way.
I don't know, not explaining myself very well. It is true that it is a many-layered issue.