Sporting Events and Screaming

[wildmonkeys]

sooo...my older boys seem to like sports. DH and I go and clap and cheer for either team if they do something really special....ie my kids favorite sport is baseball and if a kid on the other team gets a really good catch I might yell "good catch right field" or if a kid on my son's team does something exceptional I might yell "nice job  XXX" but overall I don't yell...I just or maybe give a good general "nice job blue'

This weekend he played in an all star tournament and everyone was super intense.  At one point I went and sat on the other side because I wanted my little kids to be in the shade...we didn't yell or scream and honestly I don't think anyone even noticed us.

So today a group of people (who I know) came and sat on our teams side (because there was shade) and they were yelling and screaming the whole flippin time. Even when my son was pitching (and they knew he was my son and they know I was sitting right there) they were sort of heckling him....I thought I liked these people but I have been turning it over in my mind all afternoon and am still sort of mad and struggling with it.  What do you think? I am not that competitive, but hearing people yell at my kid and my kids name has just left me off center.  

[34me]

My kid plays competitive ice hockey.  I get it.  I very rarely say a word; but have sat through some very not nice games.  I'm not sure what drives parents to say some of the things they do, I really don't.  My kid is a very good youth hockey player at 15.  But you know what, he's not going to play in the NHL and I doubt he'll get a college scholarship.  .03% of youth athletes make it to the big leagues in whatever sport they choose, until then (at least to me) it really should be about so many other things.

[wildmonkeys]

I agree, it is about sooo many other things. Love the stuff my kids get out of sports - my older son is a decent player on a good team and they have a kid who really struggles and they carry him - and they don't resent a second of it...he is on THEIR team....I LOVE  that about the boys :) Then today I hear strangers yelling mean things at the kid (whilst he is playing the best game I have ever seen him play) it left me fit to be tied. I mean honestly...how seriously is everyone taking this thing that they feel okay yelling mean things at little kids???? I am so mad I can't sleep...really..there is nothing wrong with sports or the way kids play them the problem is the parents :(

[wildmonkeys]

Okay, must add a post script...one of the moms who was a screamer writes on my Facebook wall how nice it was for the tournament to give my son's team a trophy even though they lost. Ummm...how weird is that? They got a second place trophy for second place...is it me or is it just weird??? 

[SuburbanHippie]

I can see why you're upset.  I get the same way.  I'm not a yeller at sporting events, but it seems like I'm the minority.  It bugs me so I try purposely to sit with our team's parents and even then it can be difficult still. 

As far as the trophies go, why wouldn't someone get a trophy for 2nd place?  That's still great!  All of our sports give out ribbons to everyone for trying.

[journeymom]

Wildmonkeys it wouldn't be unreasonable if you were to cheerfully and politely 'correct' the other mom on Facebook, and point out that the trophy was for 2nd place, not for losing.  Oy. What a attitude.

I also encourage you to talk to someone with the league about the shouting from the parents. That's really shouldn't be acceptable.  I know, it's after the fact but there may be an opportunity for a manager to bring up a friendly reminder in a newsletter or pre-game that they can yell and scream and cheer their own kids on to their hearts content without saying a single word about the kids on the other time. 

When my ds was in Little League I was impressed with efforts they put into keeping coaches and parents focused on fair play and keeping it fun.  Everyone is there to improve their skills and have a good time. They have a Parent/Volunteer Pledge:

• • I will teach all children to play fair and do their best.
  • I will positively support all managers, coaches and players.
  • I will respect the decisions of the umpires.
  • I will praise a good effort despite the outcome of the game.

This is also a good read:  http://www.littleleague.org/parents/parentsguide/parentrole.htm

[wildmonkeys]

journeymom - that is a great document.  Along these lines, I also like the Cal Ripkin book on being a supportive parent of young atheletes...we live in Maryland and my son used to play in a Cal Ripkin League. He makes that point that parents think comments are supportive that would infuriate us if we were trying to have a good time --- for instance, if parents think it is helpful to yell "don't strike out" or "hit the ball" they should consider how they would feel if their kids watched them golf and yelled "don't chip it this time" or "get it on the green" It is obviously what a golfer is trying to do....

Anyway, I don't golf, but I appreciate the image. Thanks all - I did write back a nice Facebook response. I said my son was thrilled with his trophy for second place - he didn't expect a trophy (which is true) he just opted to participate in the tournament because he loves playing baseball and being on a team....I then congratulated her son and her COACH HUSBAND (bet the car ride home is fun for her kid - blah) on a game well played. Again, thanks everyone.  I am going to start sitting REALLY FAR AWAY :(

[CarrieMF]

I'm a yeller.  The older the kids get the more I yell.  When my dd was in Grade 6 & they did floor hockey we yelled alot.  There is so much going on during a game(especially if it has equipment that can be loud) that without yelling the kids playing won't hear.  Ever watch Curling?  The reason they yell is because of when they used corn brooms & the tradition stuck.

However, we never said anything negative about the other team.  If we knew kids on the other team we'd yell for them too.  If the other team did a really good play we'd comment on it(positively).

When I played ball we would make comments to our pitchers along the line of "you can strike them out", things that to the other team can seem as a negative comment to their player but it wasn't about that player it was about us pumping our pitcher up.

[wildmonkeys]

CarrieMF - thank you for participating as a yeller :) I have so many questions and am SO glad you are here  :) I guess my biggest question is do you yell to instruct (for instance, if a player is making a mistake and you want to help them not make the mistake) or to generally encourage? This is completely just me, trying to understand it all....I grew up in a non yelly sport so I am trying to get a handle on the whole environment of screaming sports....

[wildmonkeys]

Must add...that I don't think it is unusual to get louder as the kids get older...the older my kids get the louder and less fun it is to sit on the sideline. Sort of a shame since the level of play also improves as they get older...the games shoud be more fun (though not as cute) to watch, but when the screaming is louder than at a MLB game...I opt to watch FAR AWAY :)

[mtiger]

Originally Posted by CarrieMF 

I'm a yeller.  The older the kids get the more I yell. 

Me, too. Although I HAVE gotten better. When my youngest played field hockey in MS, I was actually called by the coach because another parent complained about me not being encouraging enough. I toned it down, but... I'm sorry... if you don't want to run when play changes direction or you just stand there watching the ball roll past you (I'm not talking a hard drive - literally rolling slowly, as the player stands and watches it pass by w/o any effort to stop it)? Get off the field and let a motivated player take your spot.

Now, she's playing in HS (rising Senior) and on a club team, and it is a whole different level of play. I tend to keep it to encouragement only,. But if someone is playing dirty and the refs don't call it? I will say something. And I will cheer when that player gets it back. I will, however,  also comment positively when a player on the other team makes a sweet play.

A few weeks ago, she played in a tournament. In one of the games, there was a girl covering mine who played dirty - pushed, tripped, etc. All it did was make my girl more aggressive in her play (in an "oh hell no - you are NOT taking this ball from me, girl!" way). By the last five seconds, she had enough and sent the other girl flying. Not long after, I went to the ladies room, and the girl and her teammates were there, talking about how dirty a move that was. And yeah, I let them know that it was MY girl who did it - and only because the other girl played dirty. And she should be glad it was on grass and not turf. I won't apologize for that. Play clean or take the consequences.

[LynnS6]

They take good sportsmanship very seriously where we are. However, I'll admit that my kids aren't going to play at an elite level, so I don't know what happens when things get more competitive. (Though my niece does play on an ODP soccer team and the comments were all positive at the game I saw her play in.)

Our kids' sporting leagues also have the kind of Little League document that someone posted and they make sure they send it to all the parents.

At the beginning of the soccer season, one of the representatives from the soccer organization went around to every single parent who was attending the game and reminded them of the good conduct clause and to be sure to only say positive things.

I think it takes a concerted effort to make sure that parents behave well. It takes information, reminders and occasionally someone to enforce the rules.

[CarrieMF]

I guess my biggest question is do you yell to instruct (for instance, if a player is making a mistake and you want to help them not make the mistake) or to generally encourage?

Both.  For instance when my dd was in floor hockey.  We'd yell to the girls that the ball was in the corner, to go after it, to be aggressive(not to the other players but to actually move & go after the ball instead of watch it), to throw the ball in the corner, who was open, who on the other team needed to be covered, etc.  The first year the coach thanked us parents.  Her co-coach was often not there so we were helping(in a way) to coach the girls.  We'd 

Must add...that I don't think it is unusual to get louder as the kids get older...the older my kids get the louder and less fun it is to sit on the sideline. Sort of a shame since the level of play also improves as they get older...the games shoud be more fun (though not as cute) to watch, but when the screaming is louder than at a MLB game...I opt to watch FAR AWAY :)

The older they get the more fun & exciting the games are.    Yelling encouragement, play, etc is a way to get involved & it pumps the players/crowd up.

 In one of the games, there was a girl covering mine who played dirty - pushed, tripped, etc. All it did was make my girl more aggressive in her play (in an "oh hell no - you are NOT taking this ball from me, girl!" way).

lol, that reminds me of when I played basketball, which is a very mean sport.  I was an aggressive player.  I would do some things which some people may have thought were dirty(not pushing, tripping) but were perfectly legal & just annoying enough to really tick off the other team.  If I was fighting for the ball I would often say "that is MY ball" or "you can't have MY ball".   You are allowed 5 fouls & our coach told us if we didn't have 3 fouls at the end of the 1st half we weren't playing hard enough.  I took that as a challenge to always have 3 fouls.

[wildmonkeys]

Hey Carrie - My son also plays basketball and I understand what you mean about playing aggresively vrs. being aggressive towards other players.  Completely different - I also think that the yelling at basketball (and probably field hockey) probably seems a little more like general cheering and less like you are yelling at ONE kid like it does in baseball which shifts from being a team effort to a solo sport throughout the game.,

I think part of what bothered me about this weekend was the intensity.  Yeah, yelling enouragement can be nice, but if you are screaming "enouragement" with lots of intensity at a kid who already knows he wants to kit the ball, or make the out, or throw a strike....it completely changes the whole tone of the day.  It is also interesting that your coach thanked you - one of the things that bugged me this weekend was that a dad was giving instruction from the sideline that contradicted the coach - ie telling outfielders to move where they were standing when I know the coach had them in a specific spot based on how the kid at bat hits....it was just so intense and controlling....beyond the "go after the ball" that you are describing.  Also a little different because my son's coach invites everyone to help out if they want...they have 8 dads in the dougout.  I rarely hear a word unless a kid is really not remembering something fundamental and the coach reminds them.

In the end, I am upset as a mom, my son is a pitcher.  All eyes on you - lots of pressure.  At one point people, I don't know from both sides were screaming at him and using his first name.  He pitched fine, but I think it is weird when it seems like some random dad on our team will be more upset if he has a hard time that we will, he will, or the coach will...

[mtiger]

Originally Posted by CarrieMF 

lol, that reminds me of when I played basketball, which is a very mean sport.  I was an aggressive player.  I would do some things which some people may have thought were dirty(not pushing, tripping) but were perfectly legal & just annoying enough to really tick off the other team.  If I was fighting for the ball I would often say "that is MY ball" or "you can't have MY ball".   You are allowed 5 fouls & our coach told us if we didn't have 3 fouls at the end of the 1st half we weren't playing hard enough.  I took that as a challenge to always have 3 fouls.

LOL My girl is a very aggressive player, but always plays clean. Of course, there are times when a stick or foot get in the way and someone gets hit, falls, etc. If she causes it, she will immediately apologize - sincerely. She's taken stick to the face, etc. purely by accident and understands that it happens. Just as she knows when it's an intentional move. LOL It was clear that her move at the end of that game was completely intentional (shouldered the girl and then took her feet out from under her) - and that's why she waited until the end of the game.

FH refs rarely card anyone, but my girl's feeling is that if she comes to an end of a game w/o any blood, she wasn't playing hard enough. LOL She went to prom with turf burn on both knees, one hand, one shoulder and her chin. Badges of honor. ;)

[CarrieMF]

Yeah, yelling enouragement can be nice, but if you are screaming "enouragement" with lots of intensity at a kid who already knows he wants to kit the ball, or make the out, or throw a strike....it completely changes the whole tone of the day. 

Without knowing exactly what was said & how i can't really give a full opinion.  When I pitched ball of course I knew what I wanted to do & you know the batter's abilities, but hearing encouragement from the other players, coaches, parents made me focus more.

[mtiger]

A lot really does depend on the player. A lot of times, what's being yelled as encouragement to one player (i.e. the pitcher) is also aimed to psych out another player (the batter). Or vice-versa.

And honestly? Once you hit a certain level of play? Making the effort (and losing) doesn't mean a heck of a lot. Second place is one thing amongst 6yo's. Quit another at a HS or college level - or higher. No one cares who came in second - they lost. That's the reality of competitive sports. Or competition of any sort. In many ways, we do our kids a disservice when we insist that coming in second/third/etc. is really just as good as coming in first. It may be fine with everyone when you play recreationally. But when it's competitive play? It's not the same. And kids know that. Sure, after the sting eases some, I tell my girl where she and the team were strong, where she (and they) need work. But when she comes off the field after a loss? Don't talk to her - because she's not happy with second.

My daughter wants to play in college. The fact that she has awesome skills and is aggressive but plays on a team that's in a rebuilding phase (i.e. they don't win), doesn't do a thing for her when it comes to being scouted. That's why she's now playing on a competitive club team. Winning matters at that level.

[wildmonkeys]

My son - who is 11 - not in high school (maybe I should have posted this in childhood years???) doesn't want 2nd place either..his team is 14 and 1 and the boys are competitve and want to win. Just sayng the level of intensity from the sidelines shouldn't surpass what is on the field.... though MDC has made me realize tha parental intensity should be expected...Good luck to all of you and your kids (daughters...it seems) as you go forth and conquer ...or play for blood or whatever???