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Your FAM/NFP "Big Fat Oops Babies": what was your mistake? - Page 2

post #21 of 36

Jaimee, for what it's worth, I could see myself getting pregnant in either of those situations, maybe less likely 2 since I would assume that I have no clue what is going on postpartum, so I would be careful just in case (coupled with my strong desire to not conceive a baby and then have a short LP), I probably would have avoided #2, but #1 was a method failure for the Last Dry Day Rule and the Doering Rule (my personal favorite).  Sure, it wasn't a failure for the 20 day rule or the Clinical Experience Rules (both having last day of Phase I on CD 6), but you're definitely a statistical outlier.

 

Also, before I seem to critical of the mucus only methods, I do know that Creighton at least has a much more systematic way of looking for and at CM that yields a higher effectiveness rate.  The Ovulation Method (Billings) has been tested to be about 96.6% effective (perfect use), and Creighton claims a 99% effectiveness, but people using the STM seem to have a higher failure rate (3-7%) using the Last Dry Day Rule even though it is theoretically the same thing.  I certainly don't want to claim that you were not making your observations correctly, but it's hard to tell if the techniques used in Creighton could have given just that little bit more effectiveness.

 

On the STM side of things, some people recommend making internal mucus and/or cervix observations as well, and some couples find this to be helpful in finding signs that their bodies are approaching fertility in cases where their external CM doesn't give them enough warning.

post #22 of 36

Thanks for saying that JMJ!  shy.gif  I have to say I felt really stupid both times.  I've been charting for so long and fancied myself a bit of an expert (well not literally, but certainly proficient).  Everyone around me knows I chart and that we're type A people that plan everything so TWO oops babies just makes us look careless when in fact I was paying careful attention and following rules, but as you said I was an outlier the first time and the second time while a risk (obviously!!) didn't seem so risky at the time at all considering my charting history.  I have ABSOLUTELY learned my lesson this time and realize that for me, I need to follow much stricter rules despite having a long charting history.  Dh is leaning toward a vasectomy. I would love to feel as though we could do this naturally, but frankly we cannot afford another oops!   I was thinking stricter charting combined with liberal condom use and perhaps the CBFM, though I'm not sure about the latter... I'd need to do more research.  But the monitor could eliminate the confusion surrounding my CF during the postpartum period, giving me more warning  of impending attempts to O. Of course, I'm not sure if they would be far enough out warnings for my dh's apparently robust sperm!  lol.gif

post #23 of 36

If I were in your position, Jaimee, I would consider (I'm not sure what I'd actually do, but I'd consider these):

 

-CBFM for before 1st PPAF (after 6 months of LAM if applicable and no history of an early return of fertility) - I'm not sure if I would rely on it after my 1st PPAF.  The evidence that I have seen is that it gives you enough warning when your body is trying to kick-start itself while breastfeeding, but in a normal cycle, you may not get enough warning, especially if your DH is known to have robust sperm.

 

-Ecological breastfeeding so that if for some reason I messed up on the return of fertility, there is at least a good amount of space between them (though ecological breastfeeding works very well for me with my first fertile cycle at 25 months postpartum)  (note: Ecological breastfeeding does not work with everyone's situation, and it's more about a parenting style than a birth control method, but I think it's beautiful how it all fits together.)

 

-Never assuming infertility past CD 6 if you are seriously avoiding pregnancy.  If you're not trying but wouldn't mind an oops, you know how to tell if you're probably infertile, but if it's really important, don't go past CD 6, and if you ever have a shorter cycle, reduce that more.  (If you really seriously need to not get pregnant, don't assume any Phase I infertility.)

 

-Looking into saliva microscopes... I don't know much about the effectiveness of these, but I do know that some people find them to be helpful.

 

-Making internal observations.  Considering you had EWCM immediately following BD after your first oops baby, it is possible that an internal observation would have given you that tiny bit more warning.

 

-Taking a class in Creighton.  They know more about CM than anybody and might be able to give you some pointers on judging the beginning of the fertile window that is better than I or any other STM person could tell you.  Just don't let them convince you to stop temping.  I know several people who used STM effectively for years, took Creighton classes to brush up on their knowledge (There are no STM classes offered in my area), stopped temping at the insistence of their instructor, and accidentally got pregnant.  A Creighton instructor likely won't be able to help you with temperature interpretations, but if there is anything to be learned about CM, that's where I'd go.

 

post #24 of 36

All great tips, JMJ, thank you again.  I really appreciate being able to learn from someone with more knowledge!   We'll see what dh decides about the vasectomy. Otherwise, we'll probably have to just  go with assuming fertility from the end of AF until 4 days after my temp spike.  With my later O and short LP, this will likely only leave us with approximately 10 days we could have unprotected sex and 4 of those I will be on my period. Lovely.  Not to mention that I rarely feel like DTD unless I'm fertile. Of course.  lol.gif   It would be interesting to look into the CM, but honestly I'm not sure that we can trust anything about my cycles at this point expect after that egg is gone.   So I will definitely keep temping no matter what!

post #25 of 36

got pregnant with sperm living for 6 days.  so I guess my mistake was thinking that 4-5 days would surely be enough.  But now I have a 2 week old daughter that I can't imagine living without :)  I have no idea what I'm going to do for BC now...

post #26 of 36

My oldest daughter is from BD on CD14, with the temp rise on CD21, so a sperm that lived 6 or 7 days (perhaps the temp rise was delayed a little?). I don't recall having any CM the day of BD. It was a while ago, and I no longer have the chart, but I remember these facts absolutely.

post #27 of 36

It's not unusual to have the temperature rise occur as much as two days after ovulation. 

post #28 of 36
Job stress making me irregular plus wine and a fire (and a lot of oral) and making the mistake of dating a guy who wanted kids and marriage when I told him I was past that stage in life and he thought this would make me stuck with him.

Nope. Still happily a single mom. joy.gif
post #29 of 36

source?  Never read this in any NFP how to's and rules
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeYunyi View Post

It's not unusual to have the temperature rise occur as much as two days after ovulation. 



 

post #30 of 36

In the section of TCOYF on determining the length of the luteal phase it says, "If your thermal shift consistently occurs more than two days after the Peak Day, it probably means your body reacts slowly to the heat-inducing progesterone released after ovulation. In such a case, it may be more accurate to count the second day after the Peak as the first day of the luteal phase rather than waiting for a temperature shift." (p. 153 in the 10th anniversary ed.) So even though it isn't explicitly stated, it sounds like two days isn't tremendously unusual and it is possible for it to take even longer in some cases.

post #31 of 36

I think I might be one of those late temp changing people -- I'm SURE I've O'd as far as CM and CP, but it will take a few days to get a solid shift (often I'll get a low plateau rise that isn't high enough to count). For a while I thought I just had a  short LP (10-11 days).  

P.S. That's my oops, too. BD on CD 8 when I usually O'd around CD 16 -- this time I think I O'd CD 14, so 5-6 days sperm survival.

 

post #32 of 36
Thread Starter 

Yeah, it happens. My temp doesn't shift until 2 or even 3 days after ovulation. It is consistent in that regard.

 

I know that ovulation occurs 2 to 3 days before the temp rise because of peak fluid day and distinct pains.

post #33 of 36

good to know...might explain 3 surprise pregnancies I've had ;)

post #34 of 36

According to TAONFP 4th Edition, it can be 3 days before or after the temp shift, and it is well documented by many experiments that O can be 3 days before or after Peak Day.

post #35 of 36

Isn't it funny that so many women think "right after my period" is the safest time?  After my dear oops DS we decided only AFTER O was safe, and no troubles since (knock on wood) ;)

post #36 of 36

using with-drawl during a fertile time..  yup..  not a good idea.

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