Everybody keeps talking about socialization... - Page 3

[heatherdeg]

Originally Posted by Momtotherue 

Here are my questions: For those of you who homeschool, are your kids able to interact with other children well?

YES!  And he is a social BEAST.  Seriously, it's just never enough.  But he also interacts well with children of a broad age range and deals well with adults.  This makes him "weird", btw.  He has a really hard time figuring out how to break into a group of kids he's never met that are already engaged in stuff, but he's 7yo and frankly, I have the same problem as an adult. 

Are they able to adapt to different situations and get along with all kinds of personalities?

Well, he has mild Asperger's syndrome, so adapting to different situations is usually fine except for when he's on a tangent with something that  he's obsessing about (usually Pokemon cards or wanting to be Batman).  And he often falls prey to kids who are either pulling one over on him or outright bullying him.  Frankly, I was ps'd and changed schools several times due to moving but always managed to find myself being outright bullied (including having been beat up a few times in one district).  So I don't really believe that having to deal with it over and over and over again helps you to learn how to deal with it.

But really, outside of bullies (or kids that get a kick at other people's expense) he does fine.

How do you make sure they're "socialized"?

You mean other than interacting with him?    Sorry--I had to.  He's involved in all kinds of activities (many that are enrichment activities that are open to publicly/privately schooled kids, too) and then there's also the kids in the neighborhood.  We relocated or he'd also have his cousins to deal with. 

Do you feel like your child is more prone to being picked on?

Only by kids who would do that to any kid; but yes--they happen to prey on my kid because he misses social cues and they pick up on it and run.  But by kids who are not in the habit of picking on every kid they interact with--no, he is no more prone to being picked on.

I should note that my son's developmental history is quite severe.  He didn't know we were in the room until he was almost 2yo and that's with a SAH, nursing mother.  We were led to believe that "kids like him NEEDED" to be in a classroom for exposure to "typically developing age-peers" (in addition to the multiple therapies he received from 11mo to 5yo).  That was a friggin crock (the classroom part).  We pulled him out for pre-k and never looked back.  We had tried regular daycare for 1-2 days/week as an infant, a special needs preschool, an eclectic private preschool and a Montessori.  And then home.  With the time he spent at home for the Pre-K year and the K year, he learned so much in the way of social skills that at that point, he COULD have re-entered the schools and functioned in a mainstream classroom.  I was able to watch what was going on without intervening and work with him through it afterward so that he could learn what to do.  He also got WAY more exposure to watching normal, social interactions being home than he would've in school.  It was by far the best thing we ever did for him.

Originally Posted by Greenmama13 

My dh wants to homeschool our 5yods next year.  I support this in general, but my son is very socially outgoing.  He is one of those people who has never met a stranger!  And my dh is the opposite of that.  He is a stay-at-home dad (cares for our 2 year old) and doesn't really have any friends.  So my concern is that I don't want my son to turn out like my dh when it comes to being outgoing versus shy.  I guess reading all of your posts makes me worry less, but do your home schoolers have trouble making friends?  Do they tend to friend other homeschoolers?  Or to meet them in activities (gym class, etc.)? 

My 7yo is ridiculously socially outgoing.  This is a kid that LITERALLY spends an 8-hour day out in the neighborhood with the kids (there are about 13 of them in the K-3 range) and will come home crying that he hasn't had enough time to play with his friends.   He will talk to ANY. ONE.  He will raise his hand EVERY. CHANCE. HE. GETS... even if he has nothing to say.  I'm really not sure your kid could "become" something their not in this respect.  Seriously.  My son only has a hard time with groups of kids he doesn't know who are engaged in something (not always, but a lot of the time) but otherwise--nope, he totally finds friends.  Heck, he finds friends in the chiropractor's office.  HE has made ME friends there via meeting people's kids and the two of them insisting on a playdate.  And since he's involved in enrichment activities & sports that are open to the public (and run when ps kids are out of school) I honestly have to tell you that 90% of his friends are NOT homeschooled.  I'm thankful that this has not yet led to serious issues with him wanting to be in school because... ya know... there's kids there: must be a party.

I also worry about how well my dh will be able to focus on "teaching" our son with our very active and demanding 2 year old there as well.  I would love to hear from anyone who has been there. 

Holy crap... welcome to my world.  But to be honest, this is only a problem for us because mine is 2yo and my oldest is 7yo and we follow a "delayed academics" pedagogy--which means that this year it's time to actually impose some learning on him.  Before now, it's been less of an issue because we haven't done a ton of academics.  My daughter doesn't nap regularly (she has some neuro issues) but when she does, ds and I get to do things then.  We also do things at night and on weekends when daddy can either help with dd or work with ds.  That's the beauty of homeschooling.  :)

Originally Posted by philomom 

Originally Posted by Lisa1970 

My dh and I were just talking about the S word the other day. We were saying how people like to believe the public schools teach social skills, but they do not. Instead, the schools just throw the kids in together and they develop a mob mentality or gang mentality because they are 100% on their own. Someone become the alpha dog, someone becomes the bullied, everyone else is someone in between. Manners seem quite absent. Sure, some kids can still go from home to school and not be as affected by what goes on at school. But when one of the main goals is to try to limit the damage from the lack of good socialization or social skills at the school, then maybe a child should not be there in the first place.

Wow, have you never tried public school? Because that has not been my experience at all. That sounds very cliche to me. My kids have had teachers that helped all the kids with their best behavior and to respect each other. Most schools now have a no bullying stance.. even the hint of bullying can get a kid sent to the counselor's office.

While I think Lisa1970s post is mildly exaggerated, I don't disagree.  And the teachers you describe sound like elementary school level.  Kids need that help as far up as high school (where I taught).  People think teens are grown enough and the foundation is set, but the "mob mentality" is very prevalent.  That term is probably conjuring up a more gang-type image than what I'm intending, but the reality is that even in the good, affluent districts--there is a distinct group mentality; and the kids still need that kind of solid guidance that comes from someone that spends a significant amount of time with them and that they are bonded and connected to.  Until I taught them, I didn't realize just HOW much even juniors and seniors were still shockingly children.  It made me hurt for them that they had one foot into adulthood with so little guidance and such an unstable set of social and relationship skills (with rare exceptions).  Some of the kids managed to create that bond with one of their 42-min/day teachers, but most needed more than that.  And when you factor in time spent at school, time spent in extra-curriculars, homework, friends, or whatever combination thereof... it doesn't really leave a ton of time for parents.

And the "no bullying stance" was a SERIOUS thing at my high school; but sometimes you just get a kid who is too afraid to speak up.  Frankly, between how sneaky the kids can be and how divided the attention gets among 24+ kids... it happens.

There is no question that a MAJOR reason my son is homeschooled is strictly a matter of supervision during the years he has available to build his foundation of social skills and self-esteem.  Part of that decision was cemented by teaching in one of the top districts in my former state (which was not in the bottom segment of the country).  It's not about the quality of the district or even the teacher.  It's about the layout of the system.

Oh, and manners?  What are those?  FTR: my son is SO well "socialized" that I have to fight to instill manners in him because of his exposure and interaction with countless kids who don't have any.

[pigpokey]

I think socialization was a big question when they were younger. 

Now they are 6 and 7.  People mostly ask about curriculum.

[mattemma04]

My kids are currently in Montessori.My dd is shy and ny ds is more outgoing.Both I would say are somewhat akward in navagating the social setting with other kids whether it be private or public school(4 months in public horror).

Being in school has not helped socially.My dh wanted the kids in school *to learn* and to be around other kids. I agreed for the *other kids* part,but I really do not feel it has bene all that beneficial. I still have to work hard at trying to get the kids active with kids outside of school. My kids do not see a single classmate outside of school despite invites over,and we are going on 3 years now!

Personally I would rather homeschool to meet their individual learning needs,and as always try to get them active in groups to meet other kids.

[mattemma04]

Just wanted to add that my ds was bullied HORRIBLY for 4 months in public school K. It can happen and sometimes the teachers and principal and counselors look the other way. I was met with concern at first,frustration,annoyance,and then finally outright denial of any bullying occuring.My ds was being hit in the head with ice on the playground and spat on,and THEY were telling me he was a happy kid at school. I chose to believe my son.

Most of the time the big issue with public school  is the boredom your child experiences. Unfortunately for us it was bullying with ds. Now dd on the other hand WAS bored.She did have to deal with catty/mean girls in grade 2,but overall it was just boredom.Turns out all schools are boring for her,lol.

Ds wants to try public for high school .I shudder at the thought of it. I will always see my beautiful 5yo going off to school so happy and excited only to have him crying daily. I fear it but will allow him the choice later.

[aparent]

  Joining this discussion late but I feel to homeschool is

to be social and therefore models socialization. I'm reading

"Storms of My Grandchildren" by the climate scientist

James Hansen. In the book he takes part in presentations

at the White House that involve scientists that do not feel

that global warming exists. One of them actually also was

a scientist who argued for years that cigarettes were not

bad for one's health.  Hansen describes how much more

smooth, witty and able to play to the audience than the

man who defended cigarettes.  He might have stated how

much more socialization cigarette's defender had than he

had but I feel it is awkward Hansen who has more real

socialization as he appeard to care about people deeply

whatever his ability to mix well at a party and the cigarette

man seems anti-social to me as he seems one who uses

people via his excellent social wiles.

   I tried to guide our children towards the Hansen-type

socialization, besides, sending a child to school to learn

socialization is liking teaching a child to swim by throwing

them into the lake.

   Also, is there anything more social than parenting? Just

choosing to homeschool is to place children in a central

part of daily life. Homeschooling models the importance of

other human beings in one's life. It's not necessary to teach

a homeschooled child that other people are very important,

it's already in the recipe.

  Odd as this sounds, I think having pets was great for our

kids skill in understanding "others." We still talk at length

about why the dog's doing this or what the cat is feeling or

what does the pet need. Pets were the beginning of understanding

other living things have feelings and attention is needed to

see what those feelings are. Pets helped their socialization in that

the children learned to use their minds and senses to move positively 

through the rainbow of animals and people and their sensibilities 

to become more beautiful and to have that beauty illuminate

those around them.

[Lisa1970]

The kids learn in grade school that they cannot be themselves. They learn what they are (the popular one, the stupid one, the bully, the quiet one, the smart one, etc) early on and by the time they are teens, it is extremely hard for them to break out of the roles they have been so well kept in. They also learned that they cannot be themselves. They learn this in grade school, but you really see the results of it by high school. 

[Lisa1970]

I should add, I was a teacher for a while. I also did tons of volunteer work while my children were in public school. We also just came off of a home schooling break and this is our first year back to home schooling. This is how it is here. We also have a high suicide rate where we live and kids using ecstacy(sp?) on school property. The principal was saying how he is handling the drug problem and he had suspended more than 60 kids last year for being caught with drugs, but it has even been in the news how certain kids are allowed to do whatever they want (like the mayor's son and his friends). We live in one of the wealthier areas and the schools have top rankings in our state. So this is not an issue of the kids are disadvantaged or at risk. 

The reason something is called cliche is that it is so common and usual. My experience with the local public schools goes well beyond that of most parents I know who have their kids in the schools. I am always baffled by parents who declare love for the schools and certain teachers, but have no clue what is really going on in the district. They have never even read the updates about the board meetings, they don't vote in the board elections, they do not even read the local news articles about various issues in the schools. They do not seem to even open their eyes and look around them and see what is going on. I have had where I was talking to a parent and I will say something and the parent will say that that was not their experience, and the teen actually did speak up and said "well actually mom...." and the mom had so little communication with her child that she had no clue!

I will tell them that so much is public information and available online. These parents will say they love the schools. I will ask what they love about them. I am not catty or rude, I will genuinely ask. All I get back is "oh, they are just great." I will ask what do they like best. They never know. I noticed when I volunteered there so much, the happiest parents were the least involved ones. I guess ignorance breeds bliss. I commented on how unhappy I was that the district just decided to lay off all teachers who had been there 3 yrs or less, rather than laying off the uncertified teachers first and keeping the more qualified and more educated teachers. Of course, everyone thinks all teachers are certified and all public schools are accredited. I will say no, our district has about 30% uncertified teachers and non of the school below the high school are accredited by one of the 6 agencies that are recognized by the US department of education. They will argue to the death that all teachers in the public schools have passed tests to get here and have degrees and are certified. I will point them to the TEA website where it is public information about who is certified and who is not and what they are certified in and what percent of the teachers within each individual school and each district as a whole is online. Nope, they never look. They don't care. They just want to believe what they want to believe.

Half our school board about has been replaced over the last year. It is actually 3 out of 7. There is an election coming up that has the potential of replacing 2 more. This is quite important. If anyone has actually followed the actions of our local school board, they will know the board has been operating outside of the law for years. The entire board (prior to last years elections) came from 2 different neighborhoods. They were even running the elections illegally (only on school property, after PTA meetings, and you have to listen to a current board member talk first with no one else also speaking before you could pass through to go on to vote). The old members had been known to make many bigoted and racist remarks through the years. These are also public record. Fortunately, the new board members who were voted in went to great lengths and spent a lot of money to get access to these public access records (the district was trying to withhold the public records) and then they were printed in the news. Yet, others around here never seem to read the news, or look at the public information available to them. They just live in this little cloud of "my life is perfect" and do not want it interrupted with reality.

But back to the socialized kids. It is true that if you walk in to public, a non-public schooler stands out by not being the typical clone of the same exact hair style, the inability to communicate, the constant texting, and the lack of eye contact that is seen in the public schoolers. There are kids that are the exception. There will always be exceptions to everything. There are non-public schoolers who cannot communicate (have not met them yet, but I am sure they are out there) and there will be public schoolers who can get off the cell phone and have a different hair cut (I have met a few of those, but, it is usually a cultural thing when they manage to not follow the clone behaviors).

[heatherdeg]

Originally Posted by mattemma04 

Just wanted to add that my ds was bullied HORRIBLY for 4 months in public school K. It can happen and sometimes the teachers and principal and counselors look the other way.

Yeah... the milder (non-violent) bullying is often overlooked because guess what?  The teachers and admin ALSO believe in that whole "they need to learn to deal with it/how to navigate it through experience", too.    Not ALL, obviously; but way too many for my liking.  The reality is that you don't really know which one your child is under the supervision of until it's too late.

OP:  This article should hit home with your dh:  http://www.tnhomeed.com/LRSocial.html

[Fillyjonk]

I inadvertently started a new thread when trying to reply to this one (its the one called "not so sure") , which probably looked like I was trying to be way more contentious than I was. Sorry about that. I have no idea how i did that, sorry.

In a nutshell, my feelings are what others have said. If you homeschool, your kids are very socially reliant on you. If either you or your kids are extroverts or even introverts with friends and interests, you will be fine. I do think that there can be a real issue around families where both the main carer does not see the value of social opportunities (I am classing this very loosely-I basically mean, does the child see anyone outside their own immediate family) AND there are in any case issues to do with the model they are providing. The issue for me isn't actually so much socialization, as the child not getting a balanced picture of themselves and their place in the world. I do know of families like this-I'd say about a third of homeschooling families I know of have very minimal contact with either the local HS community or the local non-HSing community. .

Also in the community itself, I also think that there can be significant issues around most of the things most of us don't like about school-bullying, who has the coolest stuff, all the rest, it all goes on in the HSing community, and in some ways I think can be worse because the parents are there condoning it. I have certainly seen kids being whacked by another child and then the perpetrator's parent being proud. I have NEVER seen this from schooled parents. There are issues around conformity and rejecting the oddball there. Given how few kids there are in the HSing community, if a child is rejected by the community (I've seen it happen to a 4 year old) then there aren't many other options.

My feeling about socialisation and HSers is that its something we need to keep an eye on. For many kids its fine. For some kids it isn't. 

[Kathy White]

I wonder when we think about "socializing" our children are we setting them up to be just like others.  I know we don't necessarily want them to stand out from the crowd, but then do we really want them to be just like the crowd they are hanging out with ? 

For me a well socialized child is one who can stand up for his or her own opinion, respect and understand the different opinions of others and know that there will always be differences.

[heatherdeg]

Originally Posted by Kathy White 

For me a well socialized child is one who can stand up for his or her own opinion, respect and understand the different opinions of others and know that there will always be differences.

And for me, that's not "well socialized", it's confident, independent, self-reliant, tolerant and empathetic... which is what I'm shooting for.

For me, "well socialized" means being able to appropriately, respectfully, but directly interacting with others and building healthy relationships.
 

[MommaBirdie]

Originally Posted by Momtotherue 

Here are my questions: For those of you who homeschool, are your kids able to interact with other children well? Are they able to adapt to different situations and get along with all kinds of personalities? How do you make sure they're "socialized"? Do you feel like your child is more prone to being picked on?
 

We are only home schooling for preschool right now, but DD interacts very well with her peers and younger and older children.
She gets along with all different types of personalities.
She can adapt to different situations, but at her age she always looks at me for permission first.
Even for her first gymnastics class without me she waited for me to nod that she was allowed to enter the gym before she did.
I think it has more to do with the fact she's only 2 1/2 at the moment.
We do playdates, church activities, gymnastics, dance class, volunteer work, and we participate in almost all events that our community and the military provide for us.
We do this not only to have her socialize with others, but to also expand her experiences out of the confines of our home.
I don't think either of our children will be more prone to being picked on than the typical child, they are pretty outgoing when it comes to interacting with their peers.
 

[saraliz227]

I've already started the prepping to homeschool my toddler so I don't have anything personal to report.  I was a teacher for 7 years, I taught elementary, high school, and most recently, Middle School.  Personally, my reasoning for homeschooling is more to take the whole process into my own hands, being that I have seen from the inside, what definitly does NOT work.  I think all children are unique and schooling doesn't cater to the whole child, they have become "test scores." Sorry, I can get a little "soap boxy" about my reasons and I really just wanted to comment on your husband's concerns. 

There is something to say about the socialization in schools.  It gives children a chance to learn how to solve conflicts, make friends, adapt, problem solve, think creatively, without the safety of the home. I feel there is value in that because those "meanies" are going to be in the adult world, too.  Unfortunately, schooling is not what is was when we were there.  It has been taken over by state standards and test scores and the poor teachers aren't even allowed to teach creatively.  Recess...the grassroots of socialization has been taken out of most schools where we live so the schools can cram more standards down their little throats....not really my idea of creating a foundation for life long learning. 

Anyway, I am in full support of the homeschooling but I encourage you, although it is hard sometimes to see our babies struggle, to allow your kids to figure it out sometimes...whether it is on the playground or playing on a team or out in the neighborhood.  Experiencing conflict and challenges (good and bad) and handling it on their own terms is where true socialization happens. And it is empowering!

[aparent]

   Here we seem to be discussing socialization as an

outcome of schooling or homeschooling, asking perhaps

which method results in the best socialization when the

process is ended. Perhaps there's another approach.

   Each type of schooling involves time. Each is part of

the child's experience, a time in their life. As mortal human

beings perhaps what is most precious to us is our time; the

brief time we have alive on this planet. If socialization involves

the depth and importance placed on relationships, then the

amount of time we spend with others speaks of our socialization.

Whatever the outcome of each way of socializing children,

there's one method that daily gives more time to the individual

child; gives what is most precious to those that are most precious.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by saraliz227 

There is something to say about the socialization in schools.  It gives children a chance to learn how to solve conflicts, make friends, adapt, problem solve, think creatively, without the safety of the home. I feel there is value in that because those "meanies" are going to be in the adult world, too.  Unfortunately, schooling is not what is was when we were there.  It has been taken over by state standards and test scores and the poor teachers aren't even allowed to teach creatively.  Recess...the grassroots of socialization has been taken out of most schools where we live so the schools can cram more standards down their little throats....not really my idea of creating a foundation for life long learning. 

You know...I'm almost 43 years old, and I've never seen anything in the adult world - not at work, not even in an emotionally abusive marriage to a man who was addicted to various drugs and pathologically irresponsible - to compare to the "meanies" I had to deal with in "middle school" (we don't actually have middle school here - I'm referring to the age group) and high school. I also had a lot more options to deal with them than I did in the school system.

Anyway, I am in full support of the homeschooling but I encourage you, although it is hard sometimes to see our babies struggle, to allow your kids to figure it out sometimes...whether it is on the playground or playing on a team or out in the neighborhood.  Experiencing conflict and challenges (good and bad) and handling it on their own terms is where true socialization happens. And it is empowering!

I could be wrong, but I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you weren't bullied much. It's not "empowering". It's astonishingly destructive.

I also don't know a single homeschooling family (not saying there aren't any, but I don't know any) who fail to allow their kids to "figure it out sometimes". My kids play with other kids, without adult interference, for hours at a time. However, they do so in an environment where they know damned well that they're not trapped.

I also completely disagree that the playground, neighbourhood, etc. is where "true socialization" happens. It happens everywhere. Kids are learning social rules, customs, behaviour, etc. through their interactions with everybody - the other kids, sure, but also their parents, the cashier at the grocery store, the dance teacher, the postal worker, the farmers at the farm, the coach, the extended family, the neighbours (including the adults and older kids/teens), etc. etc. etc. etc. "True socialization" can't happen in only one place, or only by interacting with one's peers!

[SweetSilver]

Originally Posted by saraliz227 

Anyway, I am in full support of the homeschooling but I encourage you, although it is hard sometimes to see our babies struggle, to allow your kids to figure it out sometimes...whether it is on the playground or playing on a team or out in the neighborhood.  Experiencing conflict and challenges (good and bad) and handling it on their own terms is where true socialization happens. And it is empowering!

             Kids do need a chance to figure things out on their own.  I am amazed at the solutions my girls come up with when I step back and instead just listen for when the argument becomes a total meltdown.

      But there is a difference between taking a path where a child might happen upon conflict, and PURPOSEFULLY PLACING A CHILD ON A PATH IN ORDER TO EXPERIENCE CONFLICT.

     I know you meant the former, but it is an important distinction nonetheless.  So often I hear of placing children in school in order to experience that "life isn't always fair" and to learn to "tough it out" etc. etc. and many other permutations.  I feel that life in and of itself will bring its own conflicts without adding to them.

[2xy]

Originally Posted by saraliz227 

There is something to say about the socialization in schools.  It gives children a chance to learn how to solve conflicts, make friends, adapt, problem solve, think creatively, without the safety of the home.

I prefer for my children to learn things safely. What you're describing is like riding a bike without a helmet.

[Mizelenius]

(1) Are your kids able to interact with other children well?   Yes.  My oldest makes friends immediately, wherever she goes.  My problem is that we rarely or never see the kids again.  HOWEVER, ever since KG (she was never like this until she walked into KG) she is a little shy at first in some situations.  So, she has gotten better since she is out of school, but I believe school actually "made" her shy.  She was extremely talkative everywhere, including 2 years of preschool, but changed somewhat drastically in KG.  After 1 yr of KG and a few months the next year, I pulled her out.  She is 9 now.  My 6 yo was in KG for a year, and I would say she has not changed one way or another.  Sort of quiet in new situations, but can make friends.  My 4 y.o. is extremely outgoing.  I think overall it is a personality thing, but the wrong kind of school situation can do damage. 

(2) Are they able to adapt to different situations and get along with all kinds of personalities?   Overall, I would say yes.  Again, this was getting worse in school and better now that DD is out.  She skipped a grade, and immediately felt like she had to do what older kids told her to do!  So weird.  When I pulled her out she stopped having this complex of older vs. younger.  NOw she just likes who she likes.

(3) How do you make sure they're "socialized"?  Well, we don't lock her in a room all day!  We go out, they have siblings and family, are in classes, etc.  We talk ALL the time.  Basically, just do not live in a cave without seeing anyone and this is taken care of, just like it was since birth.  Social opportunities (socializing, not socialization) are much trickier for us since we are secular people in a very heavily religious area. 

(4) Do you feel like your child is more prone to being picked on?  No, not at all.  They are very good at speaking up for themselves.  No one can even "tell" that my oldest is homeschooled. 

[Mizelenius]

Yes.  My friend told me her daughter had to be a lookout for her "friend" who wanted to make out (I have no idea to what extent- could have been one kiss or a full session) with a boy during recess.  Now, I DO expect this kind of thing when they are in their teens no matter what kind of schooling they have, but in 2nd grade?  No.  This is my issue-- children OF COURSE need to learn to deal with issues, but we have to make sure that they are not faced with them too soon.  They need to have issues that are appropriate for their maturity level.
 

Originally Posted by 2xy 

I prefer for my children to learn things safely. What you're describing is like riding a bike without a helmet.

[ameliabedelia]

My oldest daughter is 9. We call her a social butterfly.  She makes friends very easily, integrates into groups easily, can play with kids of all ages, boys and girls and gets along well with most grown-ups.  She likes having lots of friends and spending time with different people.

My middle daughter is 6.  She hates groups and does not integrate well at all.  It takes her a long time to warm-up to a group.   She plays best with just 1 or 2 other kids...any bigger group and she will go off by herself or just play with her brother.l   She takes a bit longer to make friends, and generally only plays with other girls (with the exception of her little brother and 1 other boy in our neighborhood), although she will play with girls of all ages.   She prefers having a few close friends, instead of more friends that aren't as close.  She will enjoy talking with grown-ups that she knows well.

My son is 3.  He is still young, but does make friendls easily (especially with other boys).  He also seems to do best playing with just 1 or 2 other kids, more than that and he gets overwhelmed and will go off by himself.  He doesn't really have much experience with groups, so it's hard to tell how he does in that situation.  He seems to prefer having a few close friends, over having lots of friends that aren't as close.

None of them have ever been in "school" although the girls have been in various classes, coops so they do have experience with a group setting.

I definitely agree that being shy or outgoing is generally just temperament and doesn't have much to do with schooling choice.