Would this bother you? (Field Trip) - Page 2

[EFmom]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

I had something similar in high school: drama went to the Stratford festival, Music went to Edmonton, and Art (my class) went one hour away.

I was ticked off as a student and felt less valued.  

I know adults do not always put much stock in fairness but kids often do.

I heard a few words of good natured grousing from my daughter and she moved on.   If she was ticked off, she'd get over it.  Life isn't fair, which I think was the subject of a different thread a while back.  If I seem insensitive about "fairness," I'd be the first to tell you than I am.  Personally, I don't think you do any favor teaching kids that every class is going to be treated equally to every other class because it's not going to work out that way.

[kathymuggle]

Even though life is not fair, the school should strive for fairness. Why on earth not?

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

I had something similar in high school: drama went to the Stratford festival, Music went to Edmonton, and Art (my class) went one hour away.

I was ticked off as a student and felt less valued.  

I know adults do not always put much stock in fairness but kids often do.

You felt less values because the person organizing the trip you took planned a trip that was closer to home?

In order to have felt valued, you needed to travel a more similar distance? The teachers all meeting and planning trips the same distance rather than base on the value of the trip to their students would seem more fair to you?

(just trying to make sure I'm following that)

[CatsCradle]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

You felt less values because the person organizing the trip you took planned a trip that was closer to home?

In order to have felt valued, you needed to travel a more similar distance? The teachers all meeting and planning trips the same distance rather than base on the value of the trip to their students would seem more fair to you?

(just trying to make sure I'm following that)

Yes, I'm trying to understand the fairness factor too.  I think it would be unfair if the quality/type of event was substandard compared to the other events.  For instance, others went to major drama/music festivals and the art class went to a hodink gallery the next town over with a lame collection.  Now if the trip consisted of a visit to a respected collection or to see actual professional artists working, then I would say the quality would be pretty even.

I can understand, though, that kids would view distance as a barometer.  Perhaps the teachers/parents could have done a better job at explaining the value of the event (not the cost or the distance - but the quality of work being shown/performed).
 

[journeymom]

Not Kathy here, but I know that in 8th grade band I was jealous and disappointed to find out the band at the other middle school went 600 miles to Oregon for a multi-day band competition while our big trip was a one-day trip to the local university's music department.

From my adult perspective I know now that a trip like that was pretty expensive (and our little band probably wasn't good enough to compete).

Regardless, in the example Kathy gave I can imagine being disappointed and concluding that my art teacher couldn't be bothered to put together a trip. 

After being on the parent side of the teacher-student-parent field trip equation for 10 years now, I think this kind of thing would be helped immensely if there was more communication between teachers and parents. 

Teacher is over-loaded with work to do, doesn't have time to organize a field trip.  Send out a letter to all the parents, ask if there are a couple of people willing to do some research and organization.  Maybe PTA can donate some money, maybe the Rotary club can.  If you can't ask $20 per student then find a cheaper venue.  If no parent steps forward, fine, at least the teacher tried. 

If you don't think the kids will get anything out of a trip to a museum then take them somewhere else, somewhere more engaging.  Or better yet, confiscate the cell phones for the duration of the tour and have them do a scavenger hunt-type questionnaire.

I loved all the field trips I went on, every last one of them.  That other students were bored was utterly baffling to me.  Now I think it's sad.

Edited to add after reading the above, yes, if after various ideas have been tried and a field trip just isn't going to be possible then just say something.  "Sorry guys, a field trip would be great but this year it's not going to happen because of this, this and this."  As a parent I would appreciate and respect that.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

You felt less values because the person organizing the trip you took planned a trip that was closer to home?

In order to have felt valued, you needed to travel a more similar distance? The teachers all meeting and planning trips the same distance rather than base on the value of the trip to their students would seem more fair to you?

(just trying to make sure I'm following that)

Yes (insert shrug).

If this had been a school where multiple far flung trips were regularly available I might not have felt I missed out.  I would have figured I would have caught the next one.  This was not the case.  My school did big trips only in the senior year.  

The fact that my peers got to travel, missed school for several days, went on a plane, etc, etc (all BIG deals for a lower middle class kid from the sticks) was relevant to me.  I also interpreted it as my school valued drama and music more than art.  This may have not been the case  (it might have come down to I had a uninterested teacher or a teacher with other responsabilities) - but all the money and thought that went into planning their trips while mine was pretty lame did sting.  I think the school should have stepped in and tried to ensure equitable access to opportunity.  It might have even been acceptable if students knew at the beginning of the year that  class X involved a big trip but class Y  did not.  People could have at least have made an informed choice.  It did not go down that way.

Dh had something similar happen, and it did not leave him with fuzzy feelings, either.  

edited to add:  My kids going bowling over a day trip to a museum would not bug me.  They would probably enjoy it more, lol.  It is not very educational, though, and I can see that being a concern for some people.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

I also interpreted it as my school valued drama and music more than art.  This may have not been the case  (it might have come down to I had a uninterested teacher or a teacher with other responsabilities) - but all the money and thought that went into planning their trips while mine was pretty lame did sting.

Did the school pay for the trips?

That would be different from here. Here, parents either pay for long trips or the kids raise the money for them.

I can see why the school paying a lot of money for kids in one activity could cause one to feel devalued.

At our school, there are lots of field trips, both large and small, and we parents write lots of checks.

I don't see a link between the value of the trip to the students and the distance and cost. One of my DDs field trips this year was with her spanish class to an ice cream place that is owned and operated by latinos. They got to order and pay in Spanish. It was great fun, though is was about 15 minutes from the school cost less than $5.00

There was also a 2 week trip to several national parks that neither of my kids went on. I would be ticked if the school had paid for the long trip and all my kid got was an ice cream cone!

[kathymuggle]

I am not sure how it was paid for.

I think parents paid part and the school fund raised the rest.

I like the way the local high school does it.  They have about 1 big trip  year, and anyone who can afford it and wants to go, goes.  

The way my school did it made the opportunity available for some kids but not others.  As stated above, this wasn't a situation where you knew you were missing out now but would get a big trip later.  

I don't think a nearby trip has less value - but I do think more planning, thought, money etc went into the other trips and to me (as a teen)  it seemed like they might have been doing it because they valued drama and music more than art.  

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

I don't think a nearby trip has less value - but I do think more planning, thought, money etc went into the other trips and to me (as a teen)  it seemed like they might have been doing it because they valued drama and music more than art.  

yes, more time, planning, and thought.

But I wonder if that means that the school valued one more than the other, or just that those teachers enjoyed planning and going on long trips more than the other teacher.

The long trips at our school are planned by the younger teachers, and the older teachers tend to plan shorter, easier things, like ice cream or seeing a play. The field trips are all open to all students who meet the requirements for that trips, which are usually age, behavior, or physical ability related.
 

[CatsCradle]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

I am not sure how it was paid for.

I think parents paid part and the school fund raised the rest.

I like the way the local high school does it.  They have about 1 big trip  year, and anyone who can afford it and wants to go, goes.  

The way my school did it made the opportunity available for some kids but not others.  As stated above, this wasn't a situation where you knew you were missing out now but would get a big trip later.  

I don't think a nearby trip has less value - but I do think more planning, thought, money etc went into the other trips and to me (as a teen)  it seemed like they might have been doing it because they valued drama and music more than art.  

Okay, not trying to be argumentative but speaking as a person who has an MFA in visual arts and have worked in the arts for a number of years.  Visual art is tough to glamorize.  As a teen I had the opportunity to come to NYC and go to museums and galleries and my mind was blown in the process.  It is a hot bed for art, avant garde and otherwise.  I grew up in a very backwoods area of the country and the opportunity to see modern art and otherwise was a HUGE opportunity for me.  I don't think I would have been impacted as much if I had gone, say, to Washington DC (where while it has a good collection of stuff, at the time it wasn't a place where a youth could be impressed beyond the historical).  Not saying that historical is a bad thing (I value it greatly) but to feel visual art in a modern context (in my opinion and on the same level as live music and live drama), one has to feel the vibrancy of what is being created in addition to the historical.  

If I were an art teacher (and I've been so on the college level), I'd find it a challenge to create an event that would appeal to all and provide excitement.  I get excited about stuff, but I'm weird and I usually go looking for stuff that interests me.  I think music and performance is more equitable.  It appeals to a wide range of people and interests and I just think it is easier to make those venues exciting.  As an artist myself, viewing art is most enjoyable as a loner type of thing because I seek what I like.  

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

But I wonder if that means that the school valued one more than the other, or just that those teachers enjoyed planning and going on long trips more than the other teacher.

Could be...but I think the school should have stepped in with the attempt of making opportunities more equitable

As an adult I appreciate not every teacher can plan a trip - as I teen I just knew I was missing out.

[mattemma04]

I would have preferred to be asked.We do private Montessori,and all the fees on top of the thousands for tuition is a pain. Still I would want the option. I think the kids should have gotten the museum AND the bowling trip! I have let the kids do most nearby fieldtrips,but I pass on the ones hours away,or that are for more than one day.

[lindberg99]

Originally Posted by SuburbanHippie 

I found out today who the sponsor was.  It was the school!  I wish they could have used that money towards an educational field trip, but I guess that is pointless now since they've already gone on it. 

As far as the money goes, I get it.  $20 can be a lot for some families.  Trust me, we're not rich.  My other children do not go to this school because I can't afford to send them all there.  Our other school has a fund for families that can't afford field trips and as PTO president I am in charge of it.  The private school does not and I will suggest they come up with one in the future to avoid problems like this.

I think what bothers me more than anything is that the parents were kept in the dark until a few days before the bowling party.  We should have been asked for input.  At least we would know that she actually had planned out this museum trip.  My DD's school is going to this museum for a field trip on Friday and it wasn't nearly the same cost as DS's teacher had said it would have been.  So something just isn't adding up to me.  I think I'll just bring it up to the principal when I see her next.

I think you're right, something else is going on. Is there something different about the make up of this class than other classes? Maybe more kids on scholarships? Or sometimes museums offer discounts if you book a group and pay ahead, maybe she missed the deadline and it was a lot more $$$? Did your son say that she talked about the museum trip to him? By 6th grade, maybe she wanted the kids' opinion on what they wanted to do and they didn't want to go? 

At my kids' school, the parents aren't asked for input about the field trips. But they are always the same (1st grade always to zoo, 2nd to museum, etc) so maybe the teachers just assume everyone knows where the kids are going.

[mtiger]

At my son's HS, the classes don't go on field trips (except for band, but that's a different animal). Clubs do. So the drama club had a trip to the City for dinner and a show. The kids/parents paid. The Chorus went to the City for dinner and a concert. Ditto on paying. I'm sure other clubs went other places. Kids/parents paying. None of it is a secret, and if you want to go? Join the club and pay what's required.

My daughter's HS has field trips. Some are equitable, some aren't. They vary year-to-year. But, for the most part, "big" trips are done by the various teams (academic, not sports - her HS has no sports). Paid for... by parents and/or fundraising.

As others have said, I've been on a lot of elementary/MS field trips. And as "educational" as they may be hoped to be? It's all about the day away from school, lunch (whether sack or other) and the gift shop. For the most part, few kids are all that interested in what they might be learning. To me? They're a waste of time. Take 'em to a park or a bowling alley for the day for a change of pace and call it good.

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by CatsCradle 

Okay, not trying to be argumentative but speaking as a person who has an MFA in visual arts and have worked in the arts for a number of years.  Visual art is tough to glamorize.  As a teen I had the opportunity to come to NYC and go to museums and galleries and my mind was blown in the process.  It is a hot bed for art, avant garde and otherwise.  I grew up in a very backwoods area of the country and the opportunity to see modern art and otherwise was a HUGE opportunity for me.  I don't think I would have been impacted as much if I had gone, say, to Washington DC (where while it has a good collection of stuff, at the time it wasn't a place where a youth could be impressed beyond the historical).  Not saying that historical is a bad thing (I value it greatly) but to feel visual art in a modern context (in my opinion and on the same level as live music and live drama), one has to feel the vibrancy of what is being created in addition to the historical.  

If I were an art teacher (and I've been so on the college level), I'd find it a challenge to create an event that would appeal to all and provide excitement.  I get excited about stuff, but I'm weird and I usually go looking for stuff that interests me.  I think music and performance is more equitable.  It appeals to a wide range of people and interests and I just think it is easier to make those venues exciting.  As an artist myself, viewing art is most enjoyable as a loner type of thing because I seek what I like.  

To me, that seems to support the notion that the visual art students would have benefited from a field trip somewhere further away.  By high school, I'd imagine most art students will have already exhausted any major collections that are within a comfortable commute of their home or high school. I don't think the art students could be faulted for expecting a trip that would give them greater exposure to their field of interest. Especially since the other students were getting such fabulous experiences in drama and music. (Well, I don't know about Edmonton, but theatre savvy people in North American know that Stratford consistently offers wonderful theatre experiences.)

If the art teacher wasn't willing to make the effort, I don't think there's much that parents or students could do about it. I can understand why they would be underwhelmed and disappointed though.  

[nuttymom]

I would let it go. My 8 year old would love a day of bowling with her friends. She'd love the museum too, but if it didn't happen I'd just let it go. You don't know the exact circumstances of why the class didn't go. I would be happy that they were going on any field trip at all. 

[meemee]

was your dd upset that they didnt get to go to the museum? was she happy with the bowling?

i am a docent at our local museum. i see lots and lots of school groups - mainly 4th graders and a few other graders including high schoolers. most of the hsers dont care. i can get a few interested but most of them get into their groups and have much to talk about. the teacher and parents try their best to get the kids interested but only a few do. actually most of the students dont care. 

[jeslynn]

Wouldn't be okay by me. I'd want something special and educational for my son. Bowling is something we do all the time and thus it's not something new and exciting like I feel a field trip should be.