What do you do when everything is a battle? - Page 2

[NZJMama]

ednkirstin - you have such great ideas! Thanks!

[ednkirstin]

Thank you NJZMama - if there's one thing I've learned about parenting, it's that there's always something to learn.   Take care!

[Comtessa]

Originally Posted by Italiamom 

If I have even the slightest desire for my toddler to do something, it's his mission not to do it.  And if I've ever told him not to do something, it's all he wants to do... My toddler has zero desire to please. 

When I give him choices, like "draw, or read?"  He doesn't want to do either.  Ever.  ... If I'm interrupting bad behavior (like drawing on the wall, as an example), and I say, "Let's draw on the easel instead, or we can go read a book," he will lunge at the wall and furiously scribble as quickly as possible before I can physically take the pens away. 

I guess a lot of my frustration comes in enforcement, because there are a lot of things I can't make him do without hurting him.  ... I don't exactly know what to do for consequences except for time out (and spanking, which isn't an option in our house)

...  when he comes out of time out, he has a vendetta, I guess.  It's not like he's learned, "okay, I shouldn't do that, there will be consequences."  It's as though he's keeping tally for the day, and the more I try to get him to cooperate, the more bound and determined he is to be bad.

Italiamom, I've been thinking about you and your DS since I found this thread yesterday, and the more I thought about it, the more I realized that your DS' behavior reminds me a lot of the behavior of a child I nannied for several years ago -- especially the really defiant behavior you describe above. 

I have a clear memory of this child coming out of a timeout with a "vendetta," just as you describe it.  If I put him in timeout for bad behavior, I could be certain that I'd be paying for it the rest of the day.  For him, every attempt at redirection was an annoyance to be ignored.  If I forcibly stopped him from doing something (like trying to stir his own eggs at the stove), he would scream, throw and break things, hit his sister, or otherwise act out in totally inappropriate ways.  Then I'd have to intervene with that behavior, which would lead to even more extreme acting out, until I'd find myself physically restraining him somewhere in "time out."  At this point, he would refuse to make eye contact with me, would throw himself around in frankly dangerous ways, and would either scream nonstop (if I was asking him to stop) or maintain a spooky silence (if I was asking him to say something - like 'apologize to your sister for hurting her'). 

I saw most of this behavior between the ages of 2 and 3 1/2.  I don't feel like I ever developed any really good strategies for dealing with it; the only thing that saved me from despair was that I was the nanny, not the parent, and I could go somewhere else at the end of the day! 

The reason I bring him up is that I recently read a book, Simplicity Parenting by Kim John Payne, that offered some really interesting strategies for dealing with kids whose behavior falls somewhere in the gray area between normal and abnormal -- including this kind of aggressive/oppositional behavior.  When I read it, some of the author's descriptions immediately brought this child to mind -- so much so that I emailed his mom and said, "you should read this book, I think it would help you AND him."  The author focuses on how to bring down a child's stress levels and moderate extreme behavior by shifting and simplifying a number of variables in her/his environment.  I found it to be really well-written, intuitive and thoughtful.  I don't know if it would work for you, but since your DS sounds so much like this other child I know, and I thought of him when I read the book, it might be appropriate for your DS too. 

Originally Posted by ednkirstin 

 I think the frustration comes in because you're trying to get the laundry done, as we all know it has to be, and we tend to see our children as the distraction from the main task.  If you can shift your focus and realize that teaching your child to respect authority is the main task and the laundry is secondary things will come together. 

ednkirstin, thanks for your excellent and sensible advice.  That would have been precisely the right way to handle this situation.  I'll try this next time! 

[zoebird]

you are not in an easy spot, so definitely give yourself major kudos for doing so well. and you are doing well.

a lot of folks have tossed a lot of information at you, and the best i can tell you to do is to listen to your heart and instincts . . . and follow through with that.

for my own part, I've had to teach my husband -- who is usually in a battle of wills with DS -- that he needs to "let go."

for example, DS plays with his toys. toys go everywhere and make a huge mess. DH freaks out because it's a huge mess, he wants the whole cosmos to be his way (DH's way). Of course, the toddler does not care *and* it's developmentally appropriate for him to play with toys everywhere. so, who needs to adapt?

right, so your garden. let it go. let him destroy it. you want veggies -- but what is more important? growing veggies or having a kid outside having fun and being relaxed? 

move the BBQ, the wood pile, whatever -- or fence them off -- and make the yard a completely safe zone for your child. He needs to be outside. You need him to be outside.

other than that, boundaries in child care situations tend to be about rhythms. Every day is the same. this happens then this happens then this happens. if he fights it, no problem. he does whatever he does, but you do whatever you do. that's it. this happens then ths happens then this happens.

example:

this happens: DS wakes up

Then this happens: Ds goes to the toilet

then this happens: DH gets DS's berries and yogurt out on the table

then this happens: DH/I cook breakfast while DS has berries

then this happens: we have breakfast

then this happens: DH or I go to work (we both work 2.5 days)

then this happens: Dh or I do the household chore, DS gets to play (or do whatever he wants in the house)

then this happens: Dh/i dress DS and we get ready for our outting (to the park, play group, whatever)

then this happens: we go out

then this happens: we come home and have lunch

then this happens: we have indoor play time after lunch 

then this happens: we have afternoon walk with a break mid-way for our snack

then this happens: we return home and DS gets his bath and PJs

then this happens: DH/I return home from work and play with DS while the other makes dinner

then this happens: we have dinner

then this happens: brush teeth

then this happens: story time

then this happens: last nursing and bed time

then this happens: grown up time

then this happens: bed time.

It's always the same, every day. the only thing that changes is what we eat and where we go on any given day. BUT it's the same each week. Thursday is always play group. Tuesday is always grocery run. Monday is swimming lessons. Same every week. Food is also the same. Friday is always fish. Monday is always venison. breakfast is always the same -- always. 

It helps my son feel secure. He doesn't have to fight, he's in the flow. In between times when I need him to do things (get dressed, get out the door to catch the bus), he is so amicable because he knows what is coming. he knows that play time has ended, and now it's time to go out, and he knows we'll come back and he'll get to play again. 

This security and the freedom to choose once he's in the house keeps him calm and steady. 

And, I have set up my house so that he can't mess it up. The toys he as access to are toys he can play with. The house is set up for him to play there (he mostly plays on the floor anyway). Anything we don't want him to get into is up high, usually hidden away. Art and crafts we always do together -- absoltuely supervised. I tried to let him just do it, but he would paint on walls, furniture, etc, and have a conniption if i redirected to paper, or redirected to another activity. So, I just gave up crafting with him for now. He can always come back to it, or it's something we do together. 

But at this age (2 yrs and up), you pretty much do your thing and he does his thing.

DS makes a mess in our courtyard, in our house with his toys, and he's free to do so. We have tidy away times throughout the day, so things get reordered, but otherwise, he is free.

When DS feels secure and has free play, he's happy as can be. And everyone's needs get met.

Anyway, that's me. I wish you the best of luck -- and you'll figure this out. :)

[zoebird]

oh, and i forgot to add, from the Simplicity Parenting reference, we discovered that it is very lucky for our son that we are minimalists. 

He has very few toys, and we keep our house very minimally decorated, very clean and free of clutter, because this sort of thing overstimulates him. 

My son's personality is such that he takes everything in when he goes into a room. It's like he catalogues it. When he goes into the room a second time, he can tell you the one thing that has changed, even if'ts as tiny as "there's a spider on the far wall next to the sink" -- something the rest of us would not notice.

our parent coach (yes, we needed one, because DH and DS were at odds due to increased tension/anxiety that DH was under) came to do an observation at our home and felt that we had definitely done the right thing by living minimally. She asserted that even the most basic (waldorf) kindergardens might be too stimulating for him with multiple pastel colors, pictures for their name plates above their hooks, and their multiple play areas! She even admitted that the play room at her play group (which DS attends) may be too stimulating for him.

She encouraged us to decrease choices. When he was over stimulated, he was stressed, and this lead to being fractious. When DH's temper was up (due to stress), the two of them together would stir each other up into fits of anger and aggressive behaviors (DH yelling and whining alternate; DS hitting, kicking, biting, jumping on dad, screaming at him, etc). 

BY decreasing options, by keeping the place clean and simple, and by having a strong, simple rhythm through the day and week, DS feels much more at ease and secure.

He also has to be outside at least 2-3 hrs per day or he goes haywire. Which is why I suggested having the back yard just safe for him. sometimes, it's what you have to do. (btw, DS picked all of the flowers off of our little pot plants and brought them into the house today. we put them in a glass. he was very proud to bring me flowers, even though I was sad to see them off my pot plants. Oh well. his happiness is more important than my pot plants. :D ). 

[ednkirstin]

I can see some benefit to what you're saying, Zoebird, especially about minimizing toys.  I've always found my kids do better with fewer toys.  And I think structure can be important in the lives of children.  However, the kind of schedule you keep sounds very unrealistic, if not impossible when you have more than one child in the family.  Children have different needs at different stages and you can't always plan every move.  And trust me, I've tried since I homeschool as well.  My potty training toddler just couldn't seem to figure out that it was the wrong time to poop their pants when I was trying to teach math to big sis.  After cleaning up, our scheduled time would be up (this is obviously just an example, but I've dealt with situations like this over and over).  So, do I teach math or move on because of the schedule?

I'm very glad that your schedule works for you, and it could be very helpful to others who are in situations like yours.  I know that having the same meal on a specific weeknight can really simplify things and make it easier.  It's something I've done from time to time, although I like too many different foods to stick with it for the long term.  It's a good option to remember, though, if you're having a particularly hectic time period (such as a new baby).

Italiamom, I hope things are going a little better for you!