Exasperating bedtimes with 3 year old.

[cherubf]

My 3 year and 2 month old son Gus just moved into a "big boy" bed on Sunday night - he shares a room with his 5 year old brother Toby - their sister Poppy (10 months) is in the bedroom next door. Gus is generally a "spirited" child - he's such a lovely boy, very loving and affectionate BUT he's never been what I call a good sleeper. He's always needed less sleep than most others and is an early riser. Toby and Poppy are both GREAT sleepers - Toby would easily sleep from 7-7 and Poppy the same. We decided to move Gus into a big bed (he's 3 years and 2 months) as we thought it was about time and he was starting to say he wanted to move into a big bed. Things weren't even going well with Gus and Toby sharing a room anyway - Gus will keep Toby awake at bedtime and then will wake him up very early in the morning. BUT, since we've moved him into a big bed he will not stay in his bed when we put him down. We have his crib in our room now and have taken him out of the room to put him in his crib but he goes bananas. He goes bananas if we put him back in his bed and he goes bananas in the crib. Said he wanted to sleep in our bed (he slept in our bed for about 4 nights last week as my husband was away and it was the only way I could get him to sleep). I don't know what to do with him. He screams so much - he wakes the whole house up. He is very very stubborn. In the end I bought him down to the kitchen tonight and put in sitting down in a corner, told him that he could tell me when he was tired and wanted to go to bed. I ended up (after about 20 mins) telling him I'd give his bed to a friend at nursery (Josh!) if he did not want his new bed. Anyway, if you have any questions about the situation, please let me know. Basically we could do with another bedroom! Toby will not want to move in with Poppy as she has a "girly" room and it would make little difference anyway to the noise as the bedrooms are next to each other. We've stuggled with Gus's sleep from the start - this is just another chapter.

Routine wise this is what we have:

5.00/5.15pm - Dinner

play in house after dinner

6.00pm bath

6.15/6.30 Watch DVD

6.55/7.00 teeth and story

7.15 bed (Toby will go straight to sleep and sleep until 7am)  Gus invariably refuses to go to sleep straight away and will keep Toby awake.   

Poppy usually goes to sleep at 6.30/7pm and will stay in bed until 8am (will wake around 7.15/7.30 but stays in her bed quiet or chatting until I get her up at 8am!) 

You may well suggest that Gus's bedtime is too early - BUT how do you put 2 siblings to bed at different times when they are sharing a room - AND when it's the younger one that needs less sleep!

Please help me - my husband and I are at our wits end with bedtime. Realise that he's only just gone into a big bed - BUT we were having these problems beforehand except he wasn't able to get up!

Thanks

[cherubf]

Bump

[gcgirl]

I guess my first question would be: does he really need less sleep? My 3.5-year-old has always been an erratic night owl, really hard to put to bed. Basically has to just crash, and gets to sleep faster if we're out of the room and not interacting (which sucks because I'm not cuddling my kiddo to sleep). But I KNOW he's not getting enough sleep because his behavior is poor and his eyes are chronically puffy-tired - I've learned the signs. So he's not getting the sleep he needs but also not going to sleep. *sigh*

But if you're pretty sure he just has less of a need for sleep, then there's not a whole lot you CAN do, except maybe keep him out of that bedroom until he's ready for sleep and older brother has already gone to sleep.

FWIW: I just read a book called "Raising Children Who Think for Themselves", which makes this point about siblings sharing a room: ultimately it's a good thing because it forces them to work through conflicts and teaches them to find a satisfactory solution to their problems. I think that's a lot to put on a 3 and 5 year old, honestly, but maybe when they're older it will be good for them. Of course there's always a problem with compromise when one party is more tenacious or more willing to give up his comfort for peace. But I digress!

[gcgirl]

And IMO the routine has nothing to do with it. Some kid are just crappy at getting to sleep.

[ednkirstin]

I'm sorry you're dealing with this - I know it's hard!  I have a couple of ideas for you.  First, here's what I do with my little ones as they first move into a big bed.  After doing our bedtime routine (which has varied from child to child), I then sit next to the bed and read a book (my own book) until they fall asleep (usually 20-30 minutes).  If it's dark, sometimes I'll sit just outside the bedroom door with the door cracked so they know I'm keeping an eye on them.  I don't talk to them unless they try to get up.  Then I lay them down (without doing the routine again) and remind them it's bedtime and they need to close their eyes and go to sleep.  Little ones will usually close their eyes and fall asleep faster if you're there watching them, as long as you're not engaging with them.  This even worked when my Irish twins were 1 and 2 and sharing a room.

By the way, I only stay in their room to read during that toddler stage when they want to get up every time you turn around.  Once I feel confident they know how it works and I'm not having problems with them getting up, I just put them to bed and expect them to stay there.  If they've reached this point and are keeping someone else awake, I have them stand in a corner near me for a while (the older they are the longer it is, but at least 10 minutes).  I try to make it long enough that they're really wishing they were in bed.  Then I ask them if they are ready to go to bed and we give it another try (I do not repeat any part of the bedtime routine).  At the first sign of trouble it's back to the corner. By the way, if your child tries to talk to you while they're in the corner, I would just ignore it.  In my experience, it seems to dull the effect if you have a whole conversation while they're standing in the corner.  If they're screaming I tell them I won't start their time until they're quiet.

I hope this helps!  I understand how frustrating this can be...hugs.

[Tjej]

With my 3 and 5yo who share a room I am lucky in that the 3yo needs to fall asleep first, but staggering the bedtimes helps immensely.  If we put the tired one down first and wait until they are asleep (usually takes very little time), then the other can play semi-quietly in bed until they fall asleep.  I don't mind them being awake (within reason), but I do mind them getting up and disturbing others. They both understand that. 

Also, I have just sat in the rocking chair and rocked and relaxed when the bedtime has gotten way too crazy and they need a calming presence to stay quiet and in bed.  It works quite well. 

It's hard but you will find something that works for you all.  It isn't bad for the older child to go to bed first, but I know it depends on the kid how they take it.  Perhaps you could set up a bedtime routine together but have the 3yo do quiet time in another room until the older is asleep so they don't disturb the older child, but be clear that the quiet time is really a gift for the older child to not be disturbed, not the older child getting the shaft on playing...

Tjej

[winnie]

I didn't read the other responses, so I apologize if this has been addressed.

Why not, even just temporarily, put the two good sleepers in the same room? At least then they would not be disturbed so much? Would he really care that it is "girly"? My 5 yo wouldn't even notice the difference, he likes pink and purple just as well as any colour. :) Or if that is really an issue, you could make a special corner in the room for him, maybe hang a curtain around his bed and attach some pictures of his favourite things to it? Just a thought. Good luck!

[SuburbanHippie]

I would put the two good sleepers together as well.  It's only temporary. 

My 3.5 year old doesn't sleep nearly as long as my other children (11, 7, and 5).  He just doesn't need the sleep like they do.  He goes to bed later than my 7 & 5 year old (the same time as my 11yo).  He's always the first to rise as well.  I let him play in his bed with a few toys until he falls asleep sometimes too if it doesn't seem like he's going to go down any time soon.  He'll play for about a half hour and then goes to sleep.  I know it's not ideal, but it works for us so we go with it.

[ednkirstin]

I also agree with the others that if you can, if may be worth putting the two good sleepers together.  If it helps reduce the number of battles you have, everyone wins.   

[prancie]

7:15 is not too early at all, in Gus' case it might not be early enough.  Some kids get crazy after they have become overtired.  Regardless, perhaps a bedtime routine that involves more cuddling and reading in the bed as opposed to movie watching would help.  You could also give him a back rub in the bed to help him relax.  

My 3 year old went to bed at 6PM until the time change, now he goes to bed about 7.  He handles it ok, but he may switch back to 6 in the fall.  Don't think that even 6PM is too early.  

Other random thoughts:  is he eating enough at dinner?  hunger will keep them awake.