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The huge Trolls thread - Page 24

post #461 of 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by journeymom View Post

 

 

 

You are right. But another perspective is that women through-out history haven't been fairly compensated for their expertise. And many times it's because women don't expect it, don't push for it. 

 

And define 'expertise'.  How do you quantify life experience?  I like that here at MDC we tend to celebrate feminine knowledge, women's wisdom.  The problem is that sometimes this wisdom descends into 'woo'. 

 

Ultimately I agree with you, though. 

 

--------------------------------

 

By the way, is Sam's Club a membership store, like Costco?

True, but often, on message boards, judgmental people with high post counts are somehow considered more knowledgeable, which is kind of odd to me.  That's not to say that women should't value each others' opinions, just that we should step back and give ourselves some credit as well.  I'm really bothered that people feel "judged" on message boards, as if everyone else is so much smarter, based on the fact that they can point out the errors of others on a message board.  It also bothers me that an entire board can be defined by the "stand-out" posts of a few people.  (another thing not exclusive to MDC)
 

 

post #462 of 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama View Post

They sell cane sugar coke from mexico by the case (24) at Sams club. I buy it and sell it at my store. Tall glass bottles.


They sell the Mexican Coca Cola at the Costco near me.  And yes, there is an unexplainable draw to those tall glass bottles!

post #463 of 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoopin' Mama View Post



 


I understand how it can be influential but not to the point where I would make really important decisions. Where to buy cloth diapers - yes. To vax or not to vax - no. I'm not terribly crunchy so I guess I just appreciate what works for me on here and leave the rest. And I never belonged to a DDC.

 

Also, sorry to be mean but if people aren't going to take the time to do real research, the outcome isn't the fault of the message board. In my not so humble opinion.
 

 



hmmm, the problem comes in when things are cited as research that have no real basis and are touted as equally valid as peer reviewed papers when it comes to honest to goodness medical issues.  Someone's pet theory should not carry as much weight as things that have clear and reproducible results no matter how much it's regurgitated all over the web.



Quote:
Originally Posted by nashvillemidwife View Post

Regarding people being influenced by what they read on a message board, there are many, many people who come here seeking validation for what they already believe. That's fine, unless their belief is wrong and possibly dangerous, as I see often on the birth forums. What's even more dangerous is when the people who tell her she's wrong are shouted down by other posters and called fear mongers.



the issue can be that boards can (and do) normalize fringe thinking which can lead to dangerous situations.  If you were one person having a stupid thought it doesn't carry much weight.  But if you can find 100 other people having the same stupid thought it starts becoming much more valid.  groups can convince themselves of pretty much anything they want to-especially if they're collectively in a fragile spot.  And then it can quickly become dangerous.

 

of course, I've got plenty of fringe beliefs myself.  lol.gif  I'm just sayin' I can agree with these posts based on some of what I've seen.


 

post #464 of 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dar View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishmommy View Post

Yes we have a private forum where we discuss issues. In all my years as a mod I have never seen anything from other boards c/p there or to members.



Right. And yes, TWWS (like other boards) has been discussed occasionally, when it was relevant to an issue with a thread or a member.

No one has really mentioned the real reason TWWS generally ends up on our radar as mods. Posters from TWWS don't just bring stuff from here to there to snark it, which may be tasteless but really isn't any of my business is a moderator here. They also sometimes post here in an effort to disrupt threads - intentionally and knowingly violating the User Agreement, creating second or third or fourth usernames, etc. And then they post about it there for high-fives or whatever, and sometimes our members who were invited there come back here and are upset and PM us and tell us what's going on, and then we need to deal with it, because we do try to keep Mothering a comfortable place for our members. That's really the only reason we care what's going on over there.


Ah, that makes sense.  I'm just going by the threads I saw when the glitch meant that forum was open.  I didn't see any other forums being discussed in there but I'm aware that other places do the same thing (ie snark MDC and send members over to cause trouble).

 

post #465 of 767

Message boards are a community like any other. People turn to their communities for advice.

post #466 of 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by NannyMcPhee View Post

Message boards are a community like any other. People turn to their communities for advice.

And when a person is shunned by their community and made to feel like an outcast for trying to be a voice of reason, they just might go to another community and talk about that experience. No?
 

 

post #467 of 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panserbjorne View Post





of course, I've got plenty of fringe beliefs myself.  lol.gif  I'm just sayin' I can agree with these posts based on some of what I've seen.


 


I think that's the thing - who should say which beliefs are too fringe-y, you know? There's plenty of stuff here that I think is way too out there, but then again I'm sure some people think that TCSing and unschooling are too out there, too, and I'm irreparably damaging my kid and should be stopped (although it's nice to be in a place now where I can sort of shrug my shoulders and say well, she's 18 now and things seem pretty awesome, so....).

I can see what you mean about groups reinforcing certain beliefs, and I do think we should be open to hearing both sides. On the other hand, there are plenty of places out there to get information about why children should be fully vaxed for example, and not many to get information about why they shouldn't be... so I'm not sure we need to aim for a completely balanced viewpoint. I get tired of defending radical unschooling and I like having a place where I don't generally have to, and I can just talk about it, and I imagine non-vaxers feel the same way. And my kid is fully vaxed, and I'm happy with that decision (which ultimately was hers), so I don't hang out in the vax forums here and I get my vax info elsewhere.
post #468 of 767

I rarely post here anymore because of issues here. I do go to twws. Here, I am irritated with the misinformation and dangerous practices that are encouraged. My child died because of a negligent CPM. Coincidentally, before her death, I had shared that midwife's name here raving about her. Shortly after I published the midwife's name on my personal blog, that post was pulled and I was given crap for even writing about her under the guise of causing problems for this board (although it was on MY PERSONAL BLOG). When someone asks about midwives that MDC higherups know have a horrid track record, they are basically told to shut up, only glowing recommendations are to be shared.

 

There is a private UC forum. Why?? Because people didn't want to be told that you can't change your blood type with diet and herbs or that certain things do make a mother high risk. So, instead of addressing the dangerous crap being shared and nipping that, MDC goes and creates a private board where women won't be told that something is dangerous. Interestingly enough, many dead baby stories ARE deleted. I wonder how long it will be before someone files a lawsuit against here because of the medical advice given that kills babies?? There's already been 3 dead babies in less than a month here, on one board.

 

This does not include babies who are sick where mom is told to wait it out or give a vitamin or some other funky treatment.

 

On twws, it is ok to say certain things are dangerous and this is why. There is no gloating or mocking or laughing at all the dead babies.They see the value in the medical system.

post #469 of 767

Edited because I completely misunderstood Mommaof5's post. I swear to all that is holy that I thought she'd changed topics from deaths. (candle.gif)

 

I was responding to what I thought she was saying in her second paragraph. Which was that I thought she was condemning wait and see in all cases.

 

(And yes, I do feel completely stupid for having made that mistake.)


Edited by sapphire_chan - 6/6/11 at 6:10pm
post #470 of 767
Thread Starter 
Personally, Im really glad there is a private UC forum. The maybe, you know, if you dont send a troll in to c&p, people who ARE interested in UC can ask legitimate questions without being mocked. But probably not.
post #471 of 767

I've been following this thread with great interest, and have learned quite a bit.  Going along with the whole idea of people thinking that someone here who tells you to do something dangerously unsafe is someone to be listened to- you know, the whole "don't listen to your doctor, or dissenting views, or whatever" posts...I just read something written by one of the "experts" in the Ask the Experts section that is blatantly untrue.  Now, it's not that big of a deal because it's not something that's going to put anyone in danger- it's along the lines of the expert saying that a duck is a mammal- it's not true, but no one is going to die from thinking that a duck is a mammal.  But, I thought it was a relevant example of how an uninformed mama can come to believe something untrue, or even dangerously untrue, by reading a discussion board.  It's really easy for anyone to pass off their thoughts and opinions as facts and truths in this format, and this highlights why dissenting opinions should be allowed to be voiced.  Just my 2 cents.

post #472 of 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post

You mean like taking vitamin C and waiting to see how a cold progresses? As opposed to dragging a sick kid to the doctor to be told to give them vitamin C and keep an eye on things (or getting antibiotics if the doctor sucks and thinks they can placate the overly concerned parent who made an appointment for a kid with a cold.)

 

 

 

 

 

Um, no. And what a way to belittle someone who is talking about the preventable deaths of babies, including her own. THIS is why boards like TWWS get started. Honestly, my stomach hurts after reading this.
 


ETA Who sounds like they are mocking dead babies now?


Edited by kmeyrick - 6/6/11 at 5:17pm
post #473 of 767


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nashvillemidwife View Post



And when a person is shunned by their community and made to feel like an outcast for trying to be a voice of reason, they just might go to another community and talk about that experience. No?
 

 


Absolutely. I was also responding to the ''why would anyone believe/do/take advice from a message board?'' thing. When you are set up as a trusted source then people might just think you are a trusted source. Be that stupid or not, it has happened to the best of us.

 

post #474 of 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama View Post

Personally, Im really glad there is a private UC forum. The maybe, you know, if you dont send a troll in to c&p, people who ARE interested in UC can ask legitimate questions without being mocked. But probably not.


I've been reading over there for the last few days and its really interesting you are fixated on the ''mocking'' element of those who choose to UC. What I see over there is pretty much universal condemnation of the practise, even by mothers who have UCed themselves in the past. So its not really mocking, but discussing a subject that those people feel is dangerous and a really, really bad choice, for mothers and babies.  They have some really good points about it too, ones that I have never seen expressed on this board before.  Because of that, to me, its kind of scary there is a private UC board on this forum, as it seems like it would further insulate the practise from all points of view, from all research on the subject, from other mothers that have birthing experience and from birthing professionals.

They have every right in the world to not agree with the choice to UC and not agreeing is certainly not the same as mocking or pointing and laughing.

post #475 of 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmeyrick View Post



 

Um, no. And what a way to belittle someone who is talking about the preventable deaths of babies, including her own. THIS is why boards like TWWS get started. Honestly, my stomach hurts after reading this.
 


ETA Who sounds like they are mocking dead babies now?

I stated exactly what sort of symptoms would have me wait and see. There are plenty of other cases where I would go immediately to urgent care or call a nurse hotline and I have suggested those actions to people in the past. I was pointing out that it was just as absurd to take every problem to a doctor as it is to ignore serious concerns, because the user I was replying to was universally condemning the idea of "wait and see."
 

 

post #476 of 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by NannyMcPhee View Post





 

They have every right in the world to not agree with the choice to UC and not agreeing is certainly not the same as mocking or pointing and laughing.


They have every right not to agree with UC.  I am not sure while they feel the need to cut and paste, however.  I can sort of see cutting and pasting  if they really are afraid a thread will go poof!  In which case I think the invested parties should be invited over to discuss.  I don't know - I just do not need to cut and paste to discuss an issue.

 

post #477 of 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommato5 View Post

I rarely post here anymore because of issues here. I do go to twws. Here, I am irritated with the misinformation and dangerous practices that are encouraged. My child died because of a negligent CPM. Coincidentally, before her death, I had shared that midwife's name here raving about her. Shortly after I published the midwife's name on my personal blog, that post was pulled and I was given crap for even writing about her under the guise of causing problems for this board (although it was on MY PERSONAL BLOG). When someone asks about midwives that MDC higherups know have a horrid track record, they are basically told to shut up, only glowing recommendations are to be shared.

 

OMG I'm so sorry.  I had a terribly negligent CPM as well.  I did not have the awful outcome that you did but it hurt like hell because she was supposed to be a "good guy."  I also find it disgusting that people can't talk freely about their experiences.
 

 

post #478 of 767
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NannyMcPhee View Post





I've been reading over there for the last few days and its really interesting you are fixated on the ''mocking'' element of those who choose to UC. What I see over there is pretty much universal condemnation of the practise, even by mothers who have UCed themselves in the past. So its not really mocking, but discussing a subject that those people feel is dangerous and a really, really bad choice, for mothers and babies.  They have some really good points about it too, ones that I have never seen expressed on this board before.  Because of that, to me, its kind of scary there is a private UC board on this forum, as it seems like it would further insulate the practise from all points of view, from all research on the subject, from other mothers that have birthing experience and from birthing professionals.

They have every right in the world to not agree with the choice to UC and not agreeing is certainly not the same as mocking or pointing and laughing.


Dont care. There are plenty of places on the internet where people are super against UC and call other people stupid, its nice to have a semi private space.

By the way, I was snarked upon for asking the very first question I ever asked in the UC forum. This was my whole reason for starting this thread....it was to find out why I was being mocked for asking a freaking question.
post #479 of 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post



I stated exactly what sort of symptoms would have me wait and see. There are plenty of other cases where I would go immediately to urgent care or call a nurse hotline and I have suggested those actions to people in the past. I was pointing out that it was just as absurd to take every problem to a doctor as it is to ignore serious concerns, because the user I was replying to was universally condemning the idea of "wait and see."
 

 




Of course, a cold is completely comparable to the deaths of babies. duh.gif No one said go to the doctor for every little thing. It's about going to the doctor when there is good reason to and not relying on herbs and Law of Attraction. And you don't see how insensitive that was to a grieving mother? The sad thing is that post is quite typical of MDC posts that pass the UA and THAT'S why people turn to boards like TWWS. That was the most minimizing, snide, dismissive thing I have seen.

post #480 of 767


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post




The have every right not to agree with UC.  I am not sure while they feel the need to cut and paste, however.  I can sort of see cutting and pasting  if they really are afraid a thread will go poof!  In which case I think the invested parties should be invited over to discuss.  I don't know - I just do not need to cut and paste to discuss an issue.

 


I think people cut and paste, because not everyone is a member here and some have been banned and some just don't want to log in. Some of it is probably saved for prosperity in case things go poof. I haven't seen anything c&ped out of the private lounge though. 

 

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